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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Conundrum on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:20
Aspirin ain't to shabby either. Opiates, over rated. Just puttin that out there.
Posted by TenMan on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:20
In reply to Ibuprophen is the best, posted by Conundrum on September 10, 2010, at 6:50:13
I agree. Ibuprofen makes me feel good...not hight or anything, just good.
Posted by Phillipa on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:21
In reply to Re: Ibuprophen is the best, posted by TenMan on September 10, 2010, at 9:51:44
Well that's strange as I used to think all in my mind but it seemed to do the same for me. But then I'd get a headache unresponsive to it so would have to go off. My gp said don't use it as it irritates the stomach use tylenol. Interesting. Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:21
In reply to Re: Ibuprophen is the best, posted by Phillipa on September 10, 2010, at 11:02:38
I like Aleve the best. It works very quickly I find. My next choice would be Advil.
Posted by Brainbeard on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:21
In reply to Ibuprophen is the best, posted by Conundrum on September 10, 2010, at 6:50:13
> Aspirin ain't to shabby either. Opiates, over rated. Just puttin that out there.
But beware of the NSAID-(S)SRI/5HT2A interaction - a seventeenfold increase of the risk of upper gastrointestinal bleeding. (Smokers, drinkers and old folks are at extra risk on top of that.)
Posted by ed_uk2010 on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:22
In reply to Re: Ibuprophen is the best, posted by Brainbeard on September 10, 2010, at 13:12:42
NSAIDs are among the more effective analgesics that we have. They are far from problem free (especially after long term use) but neither are any of the other options.
Posted by morgan miller on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:22
In reply to Re: Ibuprophen is the best, posted by ed_uk2010 on September 10, 2010, at 14:56:25
What about powerful curcumin/turmeric supplements? High dose fish oil? Boswellia? Pycnogenol? You could combine some of these or use them alone and possibly get just as good a response from them as you would with NSAIDs, without the unwanted side effects. High dose fish oil, curcumin/turmeric, and Pycnogenol all can have powerful effects on brain function, making you feel and function much better than you would on NSAIDs.
Posted by bleauberry on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:22
In reply to Ibuprophen is the best, posted by Conundrum on September 10, 2010, at 6:50:13
Sometimes ibuprofen helps me a lot, sometimes a little. That tells me that there must be an inflammation component to the mood problems. Relive the inflammation, mood improves. No doubt, a brain with some inflammation probably feels like depression.
Then the next question is, where is the inflammation coming from? I'm just saying, if someone's mood is improved on ibuprofen, that is a strong clue to pay attention to. IMO
Posted by BrainDamage on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:22
In reply to Re: Ibuprophen is the best, posted by bleauberry on September 10, 2010, at 16:22:30
Some NSAIDs have Euphoria as a (pontential) side effect
I wonder if any have been tried for depresion?
Posted by ed_uk2010 on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:23
In reply to Re: Ibuprophen is the best, posted by bleauberry on September 10, 2010, at 16:22:30
>No doubt, a brain with some inflammation probably feels like depression.
I don't think NSAIDs reduce inflammation in the brain - they are only effective against certain types of inflammation... of specific causes, and in specific parts of the body. Corticosteroids are different because they have a very broad spectrum of activity against most types of inflammation.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:23
In reply to Re: Ibuprophen is the best » ed_uk2010, posted by morgan miller on September 10, 2010, at 15:02:20
>What about powerful curcumin/turmeric supplements? High dose fish oil? Boswellia? Pycnogenol? You could combine some of these or use them alone and possibly get just as good a response from them as you would with NSAIDs, without the unwanted side effects. High dose fish oil, curcumin/turmeric, and Pycnogenol all can have powerful effects on brain function, making you feel and function much better than you would on NSAIDs.
Maybe, it's all rather theoretical due to a general lack of clinical evidence. NSAIDs are clearly effective treatments for painful arthritis which have been studied in many trials. You can't say that about alternative medicine.
Posted by linkadge on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:23
In reply to Re: Ibuprophen is the best, posted by ed_uk2010 on September 11, 2010, at 8:17:48
How would NSAIDs relief headache if they did not have an effect on inflamation in the brain?
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:23
In reply to Re: Ibuprophen is the best, posted by ed_uk2010 on September 11, 2010, at 8:17:48
celebrex has been shown (in small trials) to have some benefit in depression and schizophrenia.
Linkadge
Posted by sigismund on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:23
In reply to Re: Ibuprophen is the best, posted by ed_uk2010 on September 11, 2010, at 8:17:48
>NSAIDs are clearly effective treatments for painful arthritis which have been studied in many trials. You can't say that about alternative medicine.
I have to disagree, Eddy.
Around 10 years ago I was hospitalised with septic arthritis, with around half a cup of pus removed from my knee. I was on antibiotics for a month. Subsequently I chose to have an arthoscopy to remove non-functioning cartilage in the hope it would affect the disease process favourably. The surgeon said he would probably be seeing me again in the future (knee reconstruction/replacement??). Since then I have managed my condition with alternative medicine. NSAIDs are reputed to affect the progression of the disease adversely, but the real limiting factor for me is that even after a single dose I notice the gut effect. Whereas with glucosamine, chondroitan, curcumin, fish oil, boswellia, theflavins and such I have successfully managed my condition.
Posted by bleauberry on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:24
In reply to Re: Ibuprophen is the best, posted by ed_uk2010 on September 11, 2010, at 8:17:48
>
> Maybe, it's all rather theoretical due to a general lack of clinical evidence. NSAIDs are clearly effective treatments for painful arthritis which have been studied in many trials. You can't say that about alternative medicine.
>There are literally hundreds of positive studies on some of these herbs from all across the globe. Set aside the studies for a moment. The herbs have been used for hundreds and thousands of years. The beneficial impact of an herb does not endure that kind of test of time if it doesn't produce.
We happen to live in a country that is way behind the curve in terms of alternative medicine wisdom.
Several of the lyme herbs did not seem to work out for me in terms of global improvement. But I can say, teasel root or grapefruit seed extract or japanese knotwood totally made my headaches disappear. No clinical study needed....they've already been done and indexed in the glossary section of the books that gave me the names of those plants. Pharmaceutical pain relievers didn't even compare to the efficacy I felt with those herbs. The only thing that came close was nortriptyline, but the herbs were better.
herbs or meds, doesn't matter, it's all still a game of trial and error. All the evidence in the world and all the theory in the world only gets you so far. Only a personal trial determines whether a particular molecule is good for someone or not.
Posted by Phillipa on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:24
In reply to Re: Ibuprophen is the best » ed_uk2010, posted by sigismund on September 11, 2010, at 15:58:32
Sigi how horrible and painful for you so sorry. Now certainly not comparing you to a dog but my poodle had subluxation of patella and it went out of joint all the time and had to be popped back in and he'd limp. We have a holistic pet store here and liquid as absorbed better glucosamine cured him in a short period of time. I was told that chondrotin has a molecule to large to enter the body. But it works. Another herb was arcini montana given sublinguil three tabs dissolve under tongue before sugery continue three times a day and no bruising or swelling. And I didn't even have a bruise no swelling either. Even the surgeon was impressed and hes the one that gave it me to take first. His sister is a homeopath in Florida and clued him on that. I also used it after a skin laser treatment for swelling and reddness and pain and instantly the reddness and never any swelling. Phillipa
Posted by Conundrum on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:24
In reply to Re: Ibuprophen is the best, posted by bleauberry on September 10, 2010, at 16:22:30
I wasn't talking about ibuprophen helping with depression. I was talking about headaches, back aches, joint pain, etc I just think these OTC drugs work way better than vicodin, at least for me.
Its interesting that some people here respond to them for their mood.
Posted by linkadge on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:24
In reply to Re: Ibuprophen is the best » bleauberry, posted by Conundrum on September 11, 2010, at 19:48:14
I'd say turmeric or ginger root is probably just as effective as any NSAID.
Linkadge
Posted by sigismund on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:25
In reply to Re: Ibuprophen is the best, posted by bleauberry on September 11, 2010, at 16:42:44
The most effective positive study is a tradition.
Alternative medicine is often the repackaging of traditional medecine into alternative medicine. Boswellia from Asia, for example.
Posted by sigismund on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:27
In reply to Re: Ibuprophen is the best » bleauberry, posted by Conundrum on September 11, 2010, at 19:48:14
The reason I would not consider ibuprofen for my joint pain (no cartilage under the patella) is
1. With alternative things I don't have pain
2. The main problem is swelling, which the things I take deal with.
3. If it got bad, the pain would be continuous.That last one is important. I don't know if it is always like that, but it often must be, that the pain is continuous. It's not even a question of pain....it is about avoiding the build up of fluid that then tends to get infected.
Posted by sigismund on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:27
In reply to Re: Ibuprophen is the best » sigismund, posted by Phillipa on September 11, 2010, at 19:11:38
It was more horrible than painful, but bad enough.
I'm blessed really.............my neighbour used to make beds in hospitals and got a bad back from it, used NSAIDs for it, got gut trouble, and had a back operation that was not succesfull
Posted by Phillipa on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:28
In reply to Re: Ibuprophen is the best » Phillipa, posted by sigismund on September 12, 2010, at 16:46:36
I've heard back surgery fails a lot of time. And Septic arthritis is nothing to laugh at can be very besides painful dangerous. PJ
Posted by Hombre on September 23, 2010, at 16:24:28
In reply to Re: Ibuprophen is the best » bleauberry, posted by Conundrum on September 11, 2010, at 19:48:14
> I wasn't talking about ibuprophen helping with depression. I was talking about headaches, back aches, joint pain, etc I just think these OTC drugs work way better than vicodin, at least for me.
>
> Its interesting that some people here respond to them for their mood.When I first took Mirtazapine I was taking ibuprofen full-time for an infection in my gums. After a couple of days I felt the first relief from depression in a long time. I wonder if there was a connection.
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