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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Greg A. on November 28, 2002, at 13:12:34
My doc has just decided I may be BPII rather than 'just' depressed. I have very recently completed a series of ECT treatments to try to get out of a depression that was no longer responding to meds. The ECT seemed to put me into a hypomanic state where I was more talkative and had more energy, but still felt depressed and hopeless. My doc asked me if I found I was irritable when in this state and i certainly am. Temper tantrums and so on. Not good for a 50 year old father of 2 teenagers. I have started on Lamictal - very slowly - but have had no indication of benefit as yet. The hypomanic state seems to have passed and I can feel my energy ebbing along with a desire to avoid people. The depressed part seems to have been continuous but the low is particulary pronounced this time. Lots of suicidal thoughts.
I have checked out symptom and treatment info for BP II but wondered if any of you might add from your own experiences or knowledge on what to look for in symptoms or treatment options?Thanks,
Greg A.
Posted by Dinah on December 2, 2002, at 0:03:40
In reply to Anyone tell me about Bipolar II?, posted by Greg A. on November 28, 2002, at 13:12:34
I truly wish I could help you Greg. I know you're in a lot of pain.
I've been diagnosed with cyclothymia, a step or so lower on the bipolar spectrum. But my experience doesn't seem to be similar to yours.
I have highs (good hypomanias), often brought on by lack of sleep, sometimes just because. I have dysphoric agitated depressions (nasty hypomanias), twice brought on by medications and sometimes just occuring spontaneously. I have periods of high anxiety, sometimes related to real life events sometimes not. I have times where I barely feel alive, completely apathetic and going through the motions without emotions. I have times where I'm ok. The deep down content and happy times seem few and far between. I have the occasional meltdown which I have absolutely no explanation for. I have few if any anger attacks, and then almost exclusively aimed at myself. Most of my moods last no longer than a few weeks, and almost always at least a week.
I've managed to separate myself from my emotional self enough to function and almost look on as an observer most of the time.
I don't have much experience with the depths of extended period depression you've experienced. Maybe three in my lifetime, and I don't think they were as severe as yours. Perhaps some people who have experienced more sustained melancholic depressions (as I've assumed is the case with you?) can give you more helpful information.
Take care of yourself, Greg.
Dinah
Posted by Greg A. on December 2, 2002, at 8:34:44
In reply to Re: Anyone tell me about Bipolar II? » Greg A., posted by Dinah on December 2, 2002, at 0:03:40
Thanks for the insight into how cyclothymia affects you, Dinah. But why do you say that your symptoms seem different to mine? I see many similarities in what you describe. I don't seem (as yet) to get good hypomanias . . . but the agitated, depressed phase is exactly what I just went through. My depression has seemingly worsened in intensity with each relapse and I am finding that over the past couple of years that I am rarely free of it for even a day. Your description of 'deep down content, happy times' is perfect . . . and brings back memories of what it feels like to truly live. Vague memories.
What do you do in the way of meds etc. to help? I try to do what you do in divorcing myself from my emotions to function. I have even learned how to act happy and as a third party observer, actually feel nothing. One thing I have noticed lately is that I can cry over the way I am feeling, or even some simple family event. Usually I cannot get myself to let go. It seems good to be able to feel some emotion.
I am back at work - not sure if I mentioned that -and hating every minute of it. But it does pass the time. The only problem is that because I am in the office, everyone assumes that I am cured.
Take care Dinah.Greg
Posted by Nala on December 2, 2002, at 16:40:20
In reply to Anyone tell me about Bipolar II?, posted by Greg A. on November 28, 2002, at 13:12:34
Greg,
Hello. I have also recently diagnosed with BPII. However, I've been on anti-depressants for years and just recently (over the past 2 years) I stopped responding to them. In fact, some have made me a little high (hypomanic?) and some just don't work. For the past couple of months I have been on the following: Remeron 45mg, Eskalith 450mg, klonopin 1mg. However, I still feel bad. My dr. describes me as "melancholic". I don't know that I'll ever feel normal again. I haven't had any so-called "hypomanic" episodes recently, however, I really miss them. I pretty much feel nothing now. Mainly hopelessness. I know this may sound disturbing, but I suppose I am. However, I do think that my environment has a lot to do with my mood. I'm happier when there are better relationships in my life. However, I will never forget my most recent major depressive episode. Doomed. I must mention, that I'm 36, however, this disease has progressed. The melancholic episodes get worse everytime I have one. Please don't get offended by my pessimistic tone, but I'm just letting you stand in my shoes for a moment. good luck
Posted by Dinah on December 2, 2002, at 16:42:36
In reply to Thanks Dinah, posted by Greg A. on December 2, 2002, at 8:34:44
I guess the reason I thought my experience is different from yours is that my moods rarely last long, and I haven't had a prolonged major depression since my bout with postpartum depression several years ago. In fact I often say my problem isn't depression at all, although I may be fooling myself a bit with that.
As for medication, I take Klonopin and a very small dose of Depakote (125 mg). Risperdal worked well for the very short time I took it, but like most meds it had the effect of blocking my emotions, and I don't really like that feeling. If I ever have a really bad and longlasting depression I'm sure I'll feel differently.
My mainstay is therapy. I use it to help with emotional regulation, without numbing my emotions. I know it doesn't work well for everyone but it works well enough for me that I don't need to take more meds, and I still have an acceptable quality of life. When they come along with that perfect pill, I don't suppose I'll need it any more. :)
I hope the change in your treatment program brings you some relief.
Dinah
Posted by Greg A. on December 3, 2002, at 18:31:25
In reply to Re: Anyone tell me about Bipolar II?, posted by Nala on December 2, 2002, at 16:40:20
No offense taken from your description of how you are affected, Nala, in fact you have given me some very useful information. I too have been on ADs for years and they just don’t seem to work anymore. My depressions get worse with each relapse and hopeless describes my current state. I am 50, and have gone through this for a long time. It wears on you fighting all the time for a moments peace. I sometimes think that life must be so easy if you are normal.
Thanks Nala
Greg A.
Posted by wendy b. on December 3, 2002, at 21:51:04
In reply to Anyone tell me about Bipolar II?, posted by Greg A. on November 28, 2002, at 13:12:34
Hi Greg,
I haven't written to you in a while, but have listened (read) with interest and sympathy about your treatments, and the problems with co-workers. Let me say about the latter: they will never get it, though statistically 15% of them or so are probably depressed - it takes strength and an open mind to confront the possibility that one might have a... (eek!) mental illness.
I am so sorry you are fighting the depression so hard, and that it's worn you down so much. I am not currently suicidal, but I certainly have experienced the "downside" of bipolar. My therp thinks that is what I have (was diagnosed about 20 months ago), i.e., not ever going up into the truly manic phases, but sinking down into the lowest of the low on the other end of the scale. This is bipolar as well... welcome to the club.Let me say, I think the new dx is probably right. What you describe with the irritability and the talkativeness and the energy sounds like hypomania to me, and something like what they call "mixed states," where your depression is agitated: you are thinking depressed thoughts, yet you are "high" to some extent. I think that might be your system's reaction to the upswing that the ECT gave you. Cuz, as I remember, at first you were feeling it was doing you some good. Your posts certainly sounded brighter. Maybe (and I have read NOTHING on this, a medline search is probably in order) the ECT works similarly to the anti-depressants, in other words, pushes what may be a latent bipolar tendency up to the brink, as it were... You may want to post over on the meds board about this, too, since there are people there (Mitch?) who are much more conversant with these things. Although I can see why you posted it here, too.
Medication-wise, I've heard the Lamictal is good, keep going with it. You can do Neurontin along with it (it kept the irritability at bay for me, though I had to tweak the doseage several times, start low and slow...), and I'm on that and 400 mg Wellbutrin SR a day. I'm sorry, but I don't remember if you've ever tried Wellbutrin... It is doing a good job for me.
Anyway, I wonder if you've read any web sites about bipolar and its symptoms? If so, let me know which ones - I've got a bunch bookmarked. And the links on Dr Bob's page are a good start, too...Please write back and let me know how it's going - I can also give you my e-mail addy if you want. I know how tough it is for you right now, so just sit tight and we'll help you weather this...
my very best to you,
Wendy
> My doc has just decided I may be BPII rather than 'just' depressed. I have very recently completed a series of ECT treatments to try to get out of a depression that was no longer responding to meds. The ECT seemed to put me into a hypomanic state where I was more talkative and had more energy, but still felt depressed and hopeless. My doc asked me if I found I was irritable when in this state and i certainly am. Temper tantrums and so on. Not good for a 50 year old father of 2 teenagers. I have started on Lamictal - very slowly - but have had no indication of benefit as yet. The hypomanic state seems to have passed and I can feel my energy ebbing along with a desire to avoid people. The depressed part seems to have been continuous but the low is particulary pronounced this time. Lots of suicidal thoughts.
> I have checked out symptom and treatment info for BP II but wondered if any of you might add from your own experiences or knowledge on what to look for in symptoms or treatment options?
>
> Thanks,
> Greg A.
Posted by Greg A. on December 3, 2002, at 23:57:40
In reply to Re: Anyone tell me about Bipolar II? » Greg A., posted by wendy b. on December 3, 2002, at 21:51:04
Thanks Wendy for the support and the info on BPII. I really do appreciate the kindness right now as I seem to have stretched my own resources to the limit and it's funny how when you are in that state, things that really should not be a big deal, become insurmountable problems. It helps to have someone sort of take some weight off your shoulders.
I am so confused right now - as a result of the ECT - that I find it hard to keep my thoughts straight and to remember what i have said to whom. So forgive me if I repeat some things.
In another time, I would find my story of the subject of my workplace infatuation and her need to phone the cops to be pretty amusing. I am happy to say that given a few weeks, the intensity of what I felt has faded. It is almost comical at work how we avoid each other.
On the bright side another co worker told me today that she has had a couple of episodes of depression and was just inquiring how I was doing. Her way of letting me know that she understood some of what i am dealing with.
Seem to be rambling here. If you are OK with passing on your email address, I would appreciate it.
Again thanks for the help and support.Greg
Posted by wendy b. on December 5, 2002, at 14:03:56
In reply to Re: Anyone tell me about Bipolar II? » wendy b., posted by Greg A. on December 3, 2002, at 23:57:40
Greg,
If you need or want to write, it's:
kolepp at ivillage dot com
I hope you're well today --
Wendy
This is the end of the thread.
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