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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on March 15, 2003, at 11:22:07
Some progress is being made in therapy.
My therapist answered a question of mine about my dependence on him by saying the dependence was only a stage and that eventually I would become independent. When I said what would happen if I didn't, would he kick me out of therapy, he answered that it would mean he wasn't doing his job well, but no it wouldn't be therapeutic to terminate me under those conditions.
Of course later I worried about what he meant, but I didn't panic like I would have at one time. I just asked him the next time I saw him if I had understood the implications. Did he mean that I wasn't expected to stop therapy at some point because I no longer got benefit from it. But that I would eventually have enough other coping skills that my dependence on therapy would not be as intense. And he agreed that that was what he meant.
Also, he's found someone he thinks will be an adequate substitute therapist for if I have meltdowns while he is out of town for his other job. I felt that his frequent absences were detrimental to my therapy, and asked that we try to find solutions. So I'm going to meet with this guy a few times so that if I need him he won't be a complete stranger. I don't know if it will work out. No way to know unless we try. But I identified my need and was proactive in trying to find a solution for it.
Not bad for the week between one out of town trip and another. I'm pretty proud of the improvement in the way I handled it from how I would have handled it previously. Maybe therapy is more than just a crutch, maybe I am growing some.
Posted by lauran on March 15, 2003, at 11:47:20
In reply to I'm proud of me., posted by Dinah on March 15, 2003, at 11:22:07
Hi Dinah. I am so impressed with you being able to discuss so openly with your therapist your dependency dynamic. I am finding myself starting to really trust and depend on my time in therapy. I also trust my therapist and become concerned that I might be too dependent on him. I even find myself looking forward to just being in his office. It has the feel of warmth and safety to me. Ummm...
I do have a need that I have been hesitant to bring up with my therapist. Reading your experience makes me think I should just go ahead and communicate that need and work out the answer with him. It can't be all that bad. Communicating this would help me and has to be better than stressing over it.
Good for you! Hope your meetings with the back-up therapist are successful. Keep us posted.
Posted by Ginjoint on March 15, 2003, at 16:23:31
In reply to I'm proud of me., posted by Dinah on March 15, 2003, at 11:22:07
Posted by wendy b. on March 15, 2003, at 16:41:29
In reply to I'm proud of me., posted by Dinah on March 15, 2003, at 11:22:07
Posted by KrissyP on March 15, 2003, at 18:07:32
In reply to I'm proud of me., posted by Dinah on March 15, 2003, at 11:22:07
Posted by Dinah on March 15, 2003, at 18:21:38
In reply to I have a great experience on this subject!!!!!!! (nm), posted by KrissyP on March 15, 2003, at 18:07:32
Posted by Krissy P on March 15, 2003, at 18:35:25
In reply to I'm proud of me., posted by Dinah on March 15, 2003, at 11:22:07
I'm very glad you are making some progress in therapy :-)
Ok, I depended on all of my therapists for so long, and very often to the point I would lie just to get attention. I never really had a mother figure so every women (therapist or psych nurse) that showed they cared about me and genuinely liked me, was extremely touching for me. However, I would sometimes go back to the same psych ward just to see these people again. Even when I wasn't suicidal. I look back now and realize how much better I really have gotten, but I will never re-visit my actions again.
**Exactly, a therapist isn't doing their job if their client is continuing to struggle, continuing to depend on him/her. But it's also the therapist's job to not let that happen and a good therapist won't. A good therapist will allow you to discuss your feelings of "becoming independent" and encouraging you to do so. I know, for me, like many people, that in therapy, you form quite a close bond with each other-on both parties sometimes and that's ok-as long as it doesn't, again, prevent you from being independent. I have learned that friends and family can offer loads of support-but when it comes down to it, you only have your self, when the rest of the world runs out, and it is possible and we survive. I suffered a lot of fear when frequent absences of my therapists occurred, but they do have a life remember ;) and I think it is great that you have a back-up because one never knows what will happen-you're right-no way to find out unless you try.
I'm proud of you and yep, you're growing some-I did.
Did this help?
*hugs* Kristen
==================================================================================================
Some progress is being made in therapy.
My therapist answered a question of mine about my dependence on him by saying the dependence was only a stage and that eventually I would become independent. When I said what would happen if I didn't, would he kick me out of therapy, he answered that it would mean he wasn't doing his job well, but no it wouldn't be therapeutic to terminate me under those conditions.
Of course later I worried about what he meant, but I didn't panic like I would have at one time. I just asked him the next time I saw him if I had understood the implications. Did he mean that I wasn't expected to stop therapy at some point because I no longer got benefit from it. But that I would eventually have enough other coping skills that my dependence on therapy would not be as intense. And he agreed that that was what he meant.
Also, he's found someone he thinks will be an adequate substitute therapist for if I have meltdowns while he is out of town for his other job. I felt that his frequent absences were detrimental to my therapy, and asked that we try to find solutions. So I'm going to meet with this guy a few times so that if I need him he won't be a complete stranger. I don't know if it will work out. No way to know unless we try. But I identified my need and was proactive in trying to find a solution for it.
Not bad for the week between one out of town trip and another. I'm pretty proud of the improvement in the way I handled it from how I would have handled it previously. Maybe therapy is more than just a crutch, maybe I am growing some.
Posted by Dinah on March 15, 2003, at 19:20:27
In reply to Re: I'm proud of me. » Dinah, posted by Krissy P on March 15, 2003, at 18:35:25
Well....
Ok, but as long as my goal doesn't have to be to stop therapy. I'm happy to learn additional coping skills, but I'm not particularly enamored of the idea of completely losing this one. :)
It is true that in the end we have only ourselves to rely on. And relying on someone you pay definitely has its drawbacks. But as true as that is, it's also true that it's important to have a support system. And it's not fair to dump all the worst of my stuff on family and friends so paid supportive therapy remains on my list of available sources of support. (Ok, you online friends. I do dump stuff on you too. :) And thank you very much for your support.) I really really wish that my parents had had ongoing therapy as a child so that they didn't use me as their ersatz therapist (mother) or just vomit anger all over me (father). If that's all that therapy accomplished, keeping me a good mom and keeping my stuff from affecting my son, it would be worth it.
I think the point (about five or six years into therapy) where I really began to feel safe in therapy is when I point blank asked my therapist how he felt about ongoing supportive therapy. And he said that it depends. If you come in for a bout of depression, therapy shouldn't last for a long time. But if you're dealing with an ongoing... ok, I'll say it... mental illness, it's ok to use therapy as an ongoing form of treatment. That I may not get all better from it, any more than a diabetic gets all better from insulin, but that if it keeps me productive, functional, and out of the hospital, he would consider it a valuable service, and would not at all mind continuing to be my therapist for that purpose. Because I have therapy available, I am able to use less SSRI's and other drugs with side effect profiles that I just don't like while keeping my job (darn it) and being a reasonably good mom. My pdoc even wrote me a prescription for ongoing therapy, so that my medical reimbursement plan would realize that it wasn't for personal growth, but for medical treatment.
With that assurance from him, I was able to release a lot of my fears of abandonment and deepen my commitment and involvement in therapy. A lot of the work we are doing now wouldn't be possible if I were feeling like I needed to get better and move on.
I've never really felt the need to manufacture emergencies to see him. For one thing, my meltdowns come with depressing regularity - every eight or so weeks without stressors, more often with work stressors or lack of sleep. For another thing, I've spent my life trying to be an unemotional, nondramatic person - as far from my mom as I could get. :) And the manifestations of my illness are far too dramatic for me to comfortably endure, so I usually get quite upset with myself about them.
I have been very lucky in finding my therapist. He has grown pretty sensitive to my abandonment fears and always tells me I'm free to call him - even at night or when he's gone out of town for work, or even on his vacations. He probably feels freer to do this because I rarely if ever take him up on it, yet he knows I feel safer knowing I have the option.
Yet even with all that, our relationship is a very professional one. I neither want or need him to like me. I think he probably has developed a certain fondness for me over the years (at times - at other times he finds me exasperating), but for the first several years I think he felt mild dislike for me. And that was ok with me. I don't in any way mistake our relationship for a personal one, nor do I want one. My dependence on him is oddly impersonal, other than that he has an amazing ability to soothe me. Even his voice does, and I sometimes am able to calm myself by calling his answering machine without leaving a message. He's also made a relaxation tape for me.
So, in long, what I'm trying to say is that while on one level my dependence frightens me a bit, because I know he could leave the area or the profession at any time without a second thought to me, on another level I am perfectly content with the dependence. I have thought it through carefully and come to terms with it and accepted it. I see supportive therapy as part of my lifelong plan, if not with him then with someone else (unless my illness and meltdowns decrease with age). Yet I also do agree with him that developing a range of coping skills so that I am not solely relying on therapy is good, and something that he is supposed to help me with. So I am more or less comfortable with my interpretation of his statement (as verified by him).
Sorry to go on so long. I'm kind of using this post to think aloud.
Posted by Krissy P on March 15, 2003, at 21:49:42
In reply to Re: I'm proud of me. » Krissy P, posted by Dinah on March 15, 2003, at 19:20:27
Are you gripped with fear because this relationship with your therapist has been a touch-stone in your life? IMHO, it has offered you a place to go for answers and get unconditional acceptance and nonjudgmental responses. Once you no longer have your therapist in your life, the first few weeks will be the toughest. But understand that this is something you simply have to do Decide that you will not fall victim to this dependency.
Give yourself a chance:-)
and so it is with me too
Just *my* thoughts..................................
Well..
Ok, but as long as my goal doesn't have to be to stop therapy. I'm happy to learn additional coping skills, but I'm not particularly enamored of the idea of completely losing this one. :)
>
> It is true that in the end we have only ourselves to rely on. And relying on someone you pay definitely has its drawbacks. But as true as that is, it's also true that it's important to have a support system. And it's not fair to dump all the worst of my stuff on family and friends so paid supportive therapy remains on my list of available sources of support. (Ok, you online friends. I do dump stuff on you too. :) And thank you very much for your support.) I really really wish that my parents had had ongoing therapy as a child so that they didn't use me as their ersatz therapist (mother) or just vomit anger all over me (father). If that's all that therapy accomplished, keeping me a good mom and keeping my stuff from affecting my son, it would be worth it.
>
> I think the point (about five or six years into therapy) where I really began to feel safe in therapy is when I point blank asked my therapist how he felt about ongoing supportive therapy. And he said that it depends. If you come in for a bout of depression, therapy shouldn't last for a long time. But if you're dealing with an ongoing... ok, I'll say it... mental illness, it's ok to use therapy as an ongoing form of treatment. That I may not get all better from it, any more than a diabetic gets all better from insulin, but that if it keeps me productive, functional, and out of the hospital, he would consider it a valuable service, and would not at all mind continuing to be my therapist for that purpose. Because I have therapy available, I am able to use less SSRI's and other drugs with side effect profiles that I just don't like while keeping my job (darn it) and being a reasonably good mom. My pdoc even wrote me a prescription for ongoing therapy, so that my medical reimbursement plan would realize that it wasn't for personal growth, but for medical treatment.
>
> With that assurance from him, I was able to release a lot of my fears of abandonment and deepen my commitment and involvement in therapy. A lot of the work we are doing now wouldn't be possible if I were feeling like I needed to get better and move on.
>
> I've never really felt the need to manufacture emergencies to see him. For one thing, my meltdowns come with depressing regularity - every eight or so weeks without stressors, more often with work stressors or lack of sleep. For another thing, I've spent my life trying to be an unemotional, nondramatic person - as far from my mom as I could get. :) And the manifestations of my illness are far too dramatic for me to comfortably endure, so I usually get quite upset with myself about them.
>
> I have been very lucky in finding my therapist. He has grown pretty sensitive to my abandonment fears and always tells me I'm free to call him - even at night or when he's gone out of town for work, or even on his vacations. He probably feels freer to do this because I rarely if ever take him up on it, yet he knows I feel safer knowing I have the option.
>
> Yet even with all that, our relationship is a very professional one. I neither want or need him to like me. I think he probably has developed a certain fondness for me over the years (at times - at other times he finds me exasperating), but for the first several years I think he felt mild dislike for me. And that was ok with me. I don't in any way mistake our relationship for a personal one, nor do I want one. My dependence on him is oddly impersonal, other than that he has an amazing ability to soothe me. Even his voice does, and I sometimes am able to calm myself by calling his answering machine without leaving a message. He's also made a relaxation tape for me.
>
> So, in long, what I'm trying to say is that while on one level my dependence frightens me a bit, because I know he could leave the area or the profession at any time without a second thought to me, on another level I am perfectly content with the dependence. I have thought it through carefully and come to terms with it and accepted it. I see supportive therapy as part of my lifelong plan, if not with him then with someone else (unless my illness and meltdowns decrease with age). Yet I also do agree with him that developing a range of coping skills so that I am not solely relying on therapy is good, and something that he is supposed to help me with. So I am more or less comfortable with my interpretation of his statement (as verified by him).
>
> Sorry to go on so long. I'm kind of using this post to think aloud.
>
>
Posted by sienna on March 15, 2003, at 22:32:22
In reply to I'm proud of me., posted by Dinah on March 15, 2003, at 11:22:07
Dinah thats so great. im proud of you too. you are amazing. i hope that the other one you will try out will be good and work out for you.
sienna
Posted by bozeman on March 16, 2003, at 2:52:40
In reply to I'm proud of me., posted by Dinah on March 15, 2003, at 11:22:07
Dinah
If you have an "approved" substitute therapist for when your therapist is out of town, and he's out of town somewhat frequently because he's got another job, then aren't you "technically" seeing two therapists at once?
Might be an opportunity for you to explore some of that "different" viewpoint stuff you wanted.
BTW, I'm proud of you, too!!
Hugs
bozeman
Posted by Dinah on March 16, 2003, at 4:46:24
In reply to Re: I'm proud of me. » Dinah, posted by bozeman on March 16, 2003, at 2:52:40
lol.
Don't think it didn't occur to me. :P I haven't clarified how much of an emergency it needs to be for me to make an appointment, but even the one or two get acquainted sessions should give me some clues and satisfy some curiosity.
Posted by Dinah on March 16, 2003, at 4:50:57
In reply to Dinah----Re: I'm proud of me. » Dinah, posted by Krissy P on March 15, 2003, at 21:49:42
> Are you gripped with fear because this relationship with your therapist has been a touch-stone in your life? IMHO, it has offered you a place to go for answers and get unconditional acceptance and nonjudgmental responses. Once you no longer have your therapist in your life, the first few weeks will be the toughest. But understand that this is something you simply have to do Decide that you will not fall victim to this dependency.
No, it isn't something I have to do. And no, I have no intention of doing so. I am not "victim" to this dependency. I am a willimg participant. My goal is to find other ways of coping to augment, not replace therapy.
(P.S. Do therapists actually give unconditional acceptance and nonjudgmental responses? Mine doesn't, and I wouldn't particularly want him to.)
Posted by noa on March 17, 2003, at 16:15:36
In reply to I'm proud of me., posted by Dinah on March 15, 2003, at 11:22:07
Dinah, great job!!
BTW, have you ever read "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene? Your use of the world "meltdown" made me think of it. Even though I was never exaclty the "explosive" child, I do see a lot of myself in the kids he describes.
Posted by Dinah on March 17, 2003, at 16:56:20
In reply to Re: I'm proud of me. » Dinah, posted by noa on March 17, 2003, at 16:15:36
Thanks Noa,
I'll have to check that book out. I was generally known as a compliant child. I guess I'm regressing with age. :) Under stress, I probably am pretty explosive, thank heavens only towards myself. My therapist says that it's just as bad to hurt yourself as it is to hurt others, and I just don't believe that or even understand the concepts behind it. ?????
This is the end of the thread.
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