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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 27. Go back in thread:
Posted by Karen_kay on March 11, 2004, at 21:32:54
In reply to This blew my mind, posted by mair on March 11, 2004, at 20:56:06
Strange...I'm curious about a few things, if you don't mind.
Do you know about how long she was his client? I've read it's fine if the therapist only sees the client for a few sessions or something similar to that, but not for long-term therapy clients.
Also, how strict were his boundaries in your sessions? I'm just curious, with all the talk of boundaries and such. Was he pretty laxed on his boundaries or were they firm? I doubt it makes a difference either way, still I'm curious.
I'd be floored too if I knew my therapist married a former client. And I just wonder if sometimes the boundaries a therapist has comes into play. Not jsut with that particular client, but with others as well. Wow! I still just don't know what to say. I think if I found that out, I'd be fascinated I guess. I mean, if it's true love (is there such a thing?) why should a chance meeting during a few therapy sessions stop them? Still though, a therapist can really get to know a person through therapy and to think that someone who knows "Everything" about you would still be willing to marry you, I just can't imagine. I just couldn't marry my therapist. I don't like a S/O to know that much about me. I guess if he played by the rules, then it's legal and ethical but still... I suppose I have mixed emotions. Shocking!
Posted by mair on March 11, 2004, at 21:40:30
In reply to Re: This blew my mind » mair, posted by Fallen4myT on March 11, 2004, at 21:05:31
I was afraid some might have your reaction. ...I mean in light of some of the most recent threads. (<:
Posted by Kind Girl on March 11, 2004, at 21:40:53
In reply to This blew my mind, posted by mair on March 11, 2004, at 20:56:06
Why did this floor you? Can you explain? Were you disgusted? Jealous? Hurt?
I found out something about my t. that she shared with me, something about her family, and it freaked me out....I couldn't believe she had any life outside of me I guess! I think it was for me like when I saw my 4th grade teacher smoking in the teacher's lounge....it was a shock to realize she was a human with flaws. I am just curious what your feelings were/are.
And BTW...my husband is lousy to share stuff like this with because he always acts like it is no big deal!!!!! It is a big deal if it is a big deal to you, so share away girl!
Posted by mair on March 11, 2004, at 21:51:06
In reply to Re: This blew my mind » mair, posted by Karen_kay on March 11, 2004, at 21:32:54
I really don't know how long she was a patient of his. His boundaries were pretty loose with me but I assumed this was because we knew one another socially (although infrequently and not recently) before I started seeing him. Also, I live in a somewhat self-contained area where you tend to run into the same people alot. So it was fine for us to acknowledge one another outside of his office because we really did know each other.
I never had reason to question his ethics at all. Ironically, while I was his patient, one of his colleagues left their practice. I found out later (in the newspaper) that his license had been suspended because of an affair he started having with one of his patients. I'm sure that's why he left my doc's office.
I don't quite know what to make of it - like you, I found it shocking.
Mair
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 11, 2004, at 21:55:15
In reply to Re: This blew my mind » Fallen4myT, posted by mair on March 11, 2004, at 21:40:30
Well , Mair :( I am sorry if I made your fear some true :( not my intension at all I was just expressing how I feel. I know there are always different ways to respond to a post and I think if I had KNOWN you did not want a point of view other than it was bad I would have just kept my big mouth shut..sorry if I dissapointed or upset you in any way.
> I was afraid some might have your reaction. ...I mean in light of some of the most recent threads. (<:
Posted by Dinah on March 12, 2004, at 1:09:33
In reply to This blew my mind, posted by mair on March 11, 2004, at 20:56:06
Mair, that would have shocked me too. If I found out my therapist had married an expatient, I'm not sure how highly I would regard him. And I want to regard him highly.
Obviously your current therapist doesn't think much of his decision. Does that give you a feeling of security with this one?
Posted by tinydancer on March 12, 2004, at 1:30:27
In reply to This blew my mind, posted by mair on March 11, 2004, at 20:56:06
It could be my naivete, or my belief that love finds you in the strangest places, but....
I personally would not have a problem with this. Nor does it shock me or cause me to feel any particular reaction, actually. I don't evaluate therapists on their private life. What I know of it. What is important to me is being met with respect, being listened to, and feeling that the therapist can help me.
The thing that I do react with is stigmatizing the patient and demeaning her capabilities as a human being. As if she's helpless, mentally ill and unable to make a clear decision. They are both adults and entitled to make the decisions they want to make, and must accept the consequences of those decisions hand in hand. I understand the vulnerable position that a patient is in whilst sitting in the therapy chair, and of course makes it easier to take advantage of. But irregardless of my mental illness I'm still able to make decisions that I'm willing to stand for.
Probably not the majority supported argument, but it really is how I feel. Here and now, anyway.
Posted by Elle2021 on March 12, 2004, at 1:44:42
In reply to This blew my mind, posted by mair on March 11, 2004, at 20:56:06
Wow! That kinda floored me too. In one respect, I have to give him credit because he did (or says he did) follow the 2 year rule. And we have to remember that we are all just people here. BUT...on the other hand, he's a professional and there is a big power difference in the client-therapist relationship (as in they don't understand how much power they have over clients). I don't know what I would think about my pdoc if I found out he had done that. It would throw me off, but I think I would probably just let it go, unless there were some other factors in regard to his ethics that were bothering me. I guess this just proves that things like this *do* actually happen.
Elle
Posted by Karen_kay on March 12, 2004, at 6:32:34
In reply to Re: This blew my mind » mair, posted by Fallen4myT on March 11, 2004, at 21:55:15
I don't think Mair meant it that way dear. (Although I certainly can't speak for Mair, of course)... But, I think that from what I can see is that Mair didn't want to foster any type of hopes for this scenario to occur, as some professionals regard it as unethical (even if he waited 2 years). And I'm certain that if many of his female clients knew, they may be quite upset, as they could see him as "looking for a date" while giving therapy, which is not a good impression to have. Now, I don't necessarily agree that's what happened but outside people looking in don't know the circumstances behind the therapist's relationship with the client.
I really doubt Mair wants you to not express your opiniion. But, I can't speak for Mair again and I don't mean to step on any toes (fingers?) here, but please do feel free to express your views.
You know what really helped me out when dealing with transference? I kept thiking, "If I had to make a choice between having him as a lover or a therapist, which would I choose?" Of course I'd choose Bubba as a therapist because he's a darn good one. Besides, I couldn't bear to think of the consequences of any sexual actions we could possibly take. Not only would it destroy everything he worked so hard for, I'd be missing out on a very good therapist. It helped to continually think of things that way. Instead of thinking of the fantasy, I started thinking about the reality of a relationship with Bubba, and it didn't seem so pleasant.
Posted by mair on March 12, 2004, at 7:08:12
In reply to Re: This blew my mind » mair, posted by Fallen4myT on March 11, 2004, at 21:55:15
Fallen
KK is right; I really didn't mean it the way it came across to you. I have to remember that tongue-in-cheek doesn't go over very well on the internet.
I figured when I first thought about this thread that some people would be shocked and some people would wish this could happen to them. I was pretty amused by that juxtaposition. That's all.
I'm amazed and impressed by the candor expressed here when it comes to feelings people have about their therapists. I spend alot of time trying to convince myself that I'm totally unattached to my own therapist or any of my previous therapists. In spite of the fact that I've been more or less happily married for 21 years, I think I have a problem developing attachments. So I guess I'm a little in awe of the people here who are able to develop such strong attachments and write about them as well.
I'm terribly sorry you were offended by my response.
Mair
Posted by tinydancer on March 12, 2004, at 7:33:15
In reply to Re: This blew my mind, posted by mair on March 12, 2004, at 7:08:12
> So I guess I'm a little in awe of the people here who are able to develop such strong attachments and write about them as well.It amazes me that I developed such a strong attachment too, since I've been in therapy going on 15 years now, and this has never happened to me. Ever. Before. I think I'm capable of making strong attachments if the person exhibits traits that make me feel I'm safe with them and loved unconditionally. Since there is basically no one besides my 7 year old that makes me feel that way, I don't have many strong attachments. I don't know if that makes sense?
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on March 12, 2004, at 8:28:58
In reply to This blew my mind, posted by mair on March 11, 2004, at 20:56:06
I guess I would be scared if I were this guy's current wife, thinking that if he would let himself fall in love with me, he could easily do the same with another patient.
If I found out something like that had happened with my current T, I would leave him in a heart beat. Wouldn't make me feel very secure as a client.
Posted by Joslynn on March 12, 2004, at 12:39:35
In reply to Re: This blew my mind, posted by Miss Honeychurch on March 12, 2004, at 8:28:58
I thought pdocs could never have a relationship with patients, no matter how much time elapsed.
I think it was psychologists who have the 2 yr wait rule, but MDs=never.
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 12, 2004, at 12:53:26
In reply to Re: This blew my mind, posted by tinydancer on March 12, 2004, at 1:30:27
Thats pretty much how I feel tinydancer.
Posted by pinkeye on March 12, 2004, at 13:36:33
In reply to Re: This blew my mind » tinydancer, posted by Fallen4myT on March 12, 2004, at 12:53:26
That is great. It sure does give me a lot of hope :-). I feel therapists are also human and should not be forced to adhere to some laws just for the sake of it. It is great he allowed the 2 years to pass so that he didn't jeopardize his career also. Beyond that, it is a consensual thing between two adults and I don't think anybody has any right to interfere in that.
Posted by terrics on March 12, 2004, at 15:18:02
In reply to This blew my mind, posted by mair on March 11, 2004, at 20:56:06
I guess we all want to believe we are our Ts 'one and only' I think it is perfectly o.k. that your T. married an x-patient. terrics
Posted by obSession on March 12, 2004, at 17:47:36
In reply to Re: This blew my mind » mair, posted by terrics on March 12, 2004, at 15:18:02
I feel that the theory of it is very intriguing but the reality would freak me out totally...I would totally be scared .....simply because I would be scared he was looking at me as a female and I would feel really ugly and fat
Posted by noa on March 12, 2004, at 18:51:33
In reply to This blew my mind, posted by mair on March 11, 2004, at 20:56:06
FWIW, it would bother me, too, because I think the 2 yr. rule is the basic minimum, floor level ethical standard. I would like any therapist I see to hold to higher standards than that.
Posted by noa on March 12, 2004, at 18:56:42
In reply to Re: This blew my mind, posted by Miss Honeychurch on March 12, 2004, at 8:28:58
You kind of put your finger on something important--I really do feel it is important that clients have the safety to explore all kinds of feelings and be able to feel sure that they won't get acted on by the therapist.
My previous therapist once told me that to be effective his job was to "stay out of the way", ie, to have as little action in my life story.
Clients hopes and wishes for other kinds of relationships with their therapists are normal as part of the process, but it changes everything if there is a chance that the therapist will allow it to get acted out.
I feel really good and safe knowing my therapist has really good boundaries and strong ethics.
Posted by crushedout on March 12, 2004, at 19:08:26
In reply to Re: This blew my mind » Fallen4myT, posted by mair on March 11, 2004, at 21:40:30
> I was afraid some might have your reaction. ...I mean in light of some of the most recent threads. (<:
Yeah, I had the exact same reaction as fallen. but i also understand why it would totally freak *you* out. Lott writes about that, I think, in "In Session." I hope you don't mind me saying that your husband's reaction sounds like he doesn't understand therapy. It *is* a big deal.
Posted by mair on March 14, 2004, at 13:18:26
In reply to Re: This blew my mind fallen » mair, posted by crushedout on March 12, 2004, at 19:08:26
I haven't seen my ex-T/pdoc in about a year and a half. This is unusual because the area I live in is not all that big and we shop at the same grocery store. When I was seeing him, I used to run into him all the time. I was at a function last night attended by both my current pdoc and my ex-pdoc (with his ex-patient wife). My current pdoc skillfully avoided me although she must have known pdoc #1 was there since she was sitting in the row behind him, and I'm certain she knew i was there. My ex-pdoc came over to greet my husband and me. His wife came over after him, and he BOTCHED my name introducing her to me and got my husband's name right with no problem (my husband and I don't use the same last name which is pretty irrelevant since this guy got my first name wrong not my last name). I was fine running into him - glad actually since not seeing him around at all made me worry some about his health. He seemed pretty flustered. What was most remarkable to me is how short he looked! He really looked like he shrank! (actually his wife, whom I had met once before, looked shorter to me also)
So now I'm a little confused. Older people do seem to get smaller and he's in his early 70's. Also though I'm wondering if he just seemed smaller because he's not "larger than life" anymore. (am I standing up straighter now that I'm not as seriously depressed as I was when I first started seeing him?) In fact since I felt pretty comfortable and he seemed a little nonplussed, it sort of felt like there was this shift of power.
Just pretty bizarre in view of my recent discussion about him with my current therapist.
On the other hand, HOW COULD HE GET MY NAME WRONG AND GET MY HUSBAND'S RIGHT? I saw this guy twice a week for a couple of years - pretty demoralizing.
Mair
Posted by jane d on March 15, 2004, at 17:01:56
In reply to This is just too strange, posted by mair on March 14, 2004, at 13:18:26
> On the other hand, HOW COULD HE GET MY NAME WRONG AND GET MY HUSBAND'S RIGHT? I saw this guy twice a week for a couple of years - pretty demoralizing.
>
> MairJust tell yourself that your husband has the same name as the not quite housebroken puppy your ex therapist just brought home so he's been shouting out that name a lot recently. Or something of the sort.
On a more serious note did you talk about your husband to your therapist? I know that if I'm talking to someone I'll use third party's names far more often than I'll use the name of the person I'm talking to. And I'm also just plain bad at names. Especially some names. Still, it does seem odd.
Jane
Posted by mair on March 15, 2004, at 21:55:09
In reply to Re: This is just too strange » mair, posted by jane d on March 15, 2004, at 17:01:56
This guy knew both my husband and I before I ever started being his patient, and my husband attended some of my therapy sessions. When we were talking to him the other night he said he had been retired for 3 years. I guess it shows you how time flies when you have depression because I wouldn't have thought it was anywhere near that long. I stopped seeing him for therapy about 2 years or so before he retired, but continued seeing him for meds until he did retire (he's a psychiatrist). Maybe he is just miserable with names although I never noticed it before - before I was his patient, I used to run into him every 6 months or so - he had no trouble remembering my name then.
When this first happened the other night I was just a little annoyed. The more I've thought about it since then, the more anger and hurt I feel.
Mair
Posted by Dinah on March 15, 2004, at 22:26:27
In reply to Re: This is just too strange » jane d, posted by mair on March 15, 2004, at 21:55:09
You said he looked smaller. Is it possible that he's just not well? My father had some mini strokes that seemed to shrink him. And while fortunately, it hasn't seemed to affect his thinking, perhaps your therapist has some condition that makes recall spotty. It happens when people get older. Heck it happens to me. I blame the meds. And what the mind can recall isn't necessarily the most important things. It all just depends on where the memory is stored, not what the content is.
Posted by mair on March 16, 2004, at 12:19:29
In reply to Re: This is just too strange » mair, posted by Dinah on March 15, 2004, at 22:26:27
I'm sure you're right, Dinah. He did mention that he had prostate surgery a few months before. My memory is frequently awful, and my husband is hopeless at remembering names. I'm certain it was just a momentary lapse because he sounded perfectly on top of things otherwise.
Even if easily understandable, it still stings some. I ran into him another time a year or so after he retired, and he made an amorphous comment like "I've thought about you quite a bit." He wasn't smiling when he said it (we were both walking into the grocery store). Of course I speculated all over the place what that meant, but I frankly thought nothing good.
He hasn't been my therapist now for several years; I really like my current therapist. I've been able to progress with her further than I ever could with my last therapist. Somehow though I still want his approval and assume that I let him down by not being a more responsive patient.
Mair
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