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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 27. Go back in thread:
Posted by Angel Girl on May 9, 2004, at 15:42:17
In reply to Re: Pdocs? (long ... as usual), posted by finelinebob on May 7, 2004, at 23:09:20
Thanks for you reply flb. She has asked me to start a journal including various specific info on it but I find every day is the same old thing, no energy, very very depressed. It doesn't help that I've been sick for the last 3 weeks too, that's been taking a lot out of me. Not a good time to start a journal. Actually my mood rarely varies from really depressed unless it drops to severely depressed where it is right now. Is it possible to ever feel 'normal'? What is 'normal'?
Angel Girl :(
Posted by finelinebob on May 9, 2004, at 17:25:07
In reply to Re: Pdocs? (long ... as usual) » finelinebob, posted by Angel Girl on May 9, 2004, at 15:42:17
> ... I find every day is the same old thing, no energy, very very depressed. It doesn't help that I've been sick for the last 3 weeks too, that's been taking a lot out of me. Not a good time to start a journal. Actually my mood rarely varies from really depressed unless it drops to severely depressed where it is right now.
On the contrary, it IS a good time to start a journal! What if your entries are, day after day, "same old thing, no energy, very very depressed"? Don't you think that this lack of change is important?
> Is it possible to ever feel 'normal'? What is 'normal'?
Hey, I don't know it from personal experience, but I've looked around and I've seen "normal". You don't want to go there, take my word. Every interesting or worthwhile person I've known has been abnormal!
flb
Posted by Angel Girl on May 9, 2004, at 18:40:52
In reply to Re: Pdocs? (long ... as usual), posted by finelinebob on May 9, 2004, at 17:25:07
> > ... I find every day is the same old thing, no energy, very very depressed. It doesn't help that I've been sick for the last 3 weeks too, that's been taking a lot out of me. Not a good time to start a journal. Actually my mood rarely varies from really depressed unless it drops to severely depressed where it is right now.
>
> On the contrary, it IS a good time to start a journal! What if your entries are, day after day, "same old thing, no energy, very very depressed"? Don't you think that this lack of change is important?
>
> > Is it possible to ever feel 'normal'? What is 'normal'?
>
> Hey, I don't know it from personal experience, but I've looked around and I've seen "normal". You don't want to go there, take my word. Every interesting or worthwhile person I've known has been abnormal!
>
> flb
>
Maybe on second thought you're right about it being the same old thing every day. It means there is no improvement taking place and something needs to change.Not sure what your comment about not wanting to be 'normal' is referring to. 'Normal' people 'seem' to be out enjoying life while I have no desire to ever go outside. I'd rather be left alone with my two cats who won't judge me and who'll love me no matter how screwed up I am.
Angel Girl
Posted by finelinebob on May 9, 2004, at 20:15:38
In reply to Re: Pdocs? (long ... as usual) » finelinebob, posted by Angel Girl on May 9, 2004, at 18:40:52
Angel Girl, it was somewhat tongue-in-cheek and 100% in earnest. Don't believe for a minute that all those people who look like they've got their ducks all in a row actually do. Even the ones who do generally do so by putting a lot of work into it.
The way I see it, there are two sides to any coin. If there is some way your brain works that is problematic, there is a compensating quality that you alone have. Call it Zen, call it the Law of Averages, call it Newton's Third Law of eMotion.
Statistically, normal means average. People who are 50% +/- 3% of everything just aren't going to be all that interesting. On the other hand, people with perfect lives and no problems aren't normal: they're freaks. Statistically speaking. At least.
flb
Oh, okay, I'll admit it ... I wouldn't mind a bit of that freakiness myself! Just a bit, tho! ;^)
Posted by Dinah on May 9, 2004, at 20:28:58
In reply to Re: normal, posted by finelinebob on May 9, 2004, at 20:15:38
LOL. I had a friend growing up whose family was straight out of Ozzie and Harriet or Leave it to Beaver, right down to the pipe and slippers. I used to tell my husband that her family did this or her family did that, and I wanted my family to be just like that. My husband would always answer that that wasn't normal. It was weird. And I'd always answer with just about the words you used, except I'd like a bit more than a bit.
> Oh, okay, I'll admit it ... I wouldn't mind a bit of that freakiness myself! Just a bit, tho! ;^)
Posted by finelinebob on May 9, 2004, at 20:55:19
In reply to Re: normal » finelinebob, posted by Dinah on May 9, 2004, at 20:28:58
I actually knew a woman who was both "normal" and interesting. Her parents met in college and married early. Both were teachers, the father eventually a principal. All three kids decide to go to Mom & Dad's alma matter. Mom & Dad decide to pick up roots and move 500 miles to be with their kids while they're in college ... the older two in grad school while the youngest was an undergrad. Even though none of the kids lived with the parents, they all still had dinner together every Sunday.
But my friend, the middle child, started getting neurotic about how everyone outside her family that she knew and respected was at least a little bit neurotic themselves, and some of the best of them were REALLY neurotic! She started thinking that maybe, if she started manufacturing problems for her family, THEY could be more interesting TOO! For instance, she'd have some disagreement with her father. He'd say, "Let's sit down and discuss this." She'd scream, "No! Why can't we ever fight about anything?!"
It really was pretty funny...someone in the Perfect Family wanting a little -- no, a lot less perfection. Hmm, I wonder what her colleagues in the School of Library Science would have said if they had found out.... ;^)
flb
Posted by Dinah on May 9, 2004, at 21:13:33
In reply to Re: normal » Dinah, posted by finelinebob on May 9, 2004, at 20:55:19
Chuckle. :)
It just goes to show that there is absolutely no way to avoid being a major topic of our children's future therapy sessions.
Posted by starlight on May 11, 2004, at 14:34:47
In reply to Re: Pdocs? (long ... as usual), posted by finelinebob on May 9, 2004, at 17:25:07
I agree, it's an excellent time to get a journal going. I write 3 8x11 pages almost every day and have done it now for just over 7 years (I have quite the catalogue) and it gets your mental trash out on paper. It helps to clear your mind because you release it via your fingertips. Typing it doesn't work, it should be longhand.
I got started doing this by doing Julia Cameron's The Artists Way. I just kept at it and think it's great therapy. I recommend getting the book and working through it, it's an excellent way to get in touch with why you think the way you do. It really helped change my life.
starlight
Posted by Angel Girl on May 12, 2004, at 6:04:35
In reply to Re: Pdocs? (long ... as usual), posted by starlight on May 11, 2004, at 14:34:47
> I agree, it's an excellent time to get a journal going. I write 3 8x11 pages almost every day and have done it now for just over 7 years (I have quite the catalogue) and it gets your mental trash out on paper. It helps to clear your mind because you release it via your fingertips. Typing it doesn't work, it should be longhand.
>
> I got started doing this by doing Julia Cameron's The Artists Way. I just kept at it and think it's great therapy. I recommend getting the book and working through it, it's an excellent way to get in touch with why you think the way you do. It really helped change my life.
> starlight
starlightYou say you write 3 pages a day. That seems like a lot to me. What kind of things do you journalize?
Angel Girl
Posted by starlight on May 12, 2004, at 10:52:52
In reply to Re: Pdocs? (long ... as usual), posted by Angel Girl on May 12, 2004, at 6:04:35
Gosh,
I write everything, the problems I have, the successes I have. Sometimes I do stream of conciousness writing, occaisionally I'll go on a poetry bend, but I have a separate book for that and do alot of that anyway by writing lyrics for my band, so mainly it's stuff that I feel like I want to work on, or am frustrated by. The reason you write 3 pages is that the first page, you're getting over the hump (until you get used to it)and then that's when you get to the real stuff. The last half of the last page you can use for affirmations to help change some of the intrinsic negative programming that you have. It's not hard and it's easy for me to keep going if I haven't written in a long time. I've really been thinking of writing my entire lifestory because I think it's actually a very interesting one. But that will be a separate endeavour.Getting over the hump is important because that's when your real feelings emerge. I highly recommend it, you'll learn a lot about yourself and it makes you feel grounded. I write first thing in the morning starting at 6:50 or 7:00 am and go until about 7:30. It requires alot of discipline, but it's well worth it.
starlight
Posted by Angel Girl on May 12, 2004, at 17:28:13
In reply to Re: Pdocs? (long ... as usual), posted by starlight on May 12, 2004, at 10:52:52
> Gosh,
> I write everything, the problems I have, the successes I have. Sometimes I do stream of conciousness writing, occaisionally I'll go on a poetry bend, but I have a separate book for that and do alot of that anyway by writing lyrics for my band, so mainly it's stuff that I feel like I want to work on, or am frustrated by. The reason you write 3 pages is that the first page, you're getting over the hump (until you get used to it)and then that's when you get to the real stuff. The last half of the last page you can use for affirmations to help change some of the intrinsic negative programming that you have. It's not hard and it's easy for me to keep going if I haven't written in a long time. I've really been thinking of writing my entire lifestory because I think it's actually a very interesting one. But that will be a separate endeavour.
>
> Getting over the hump is important because that's when your real feelings emerge. I highly recommend it, you'll learn a lot about yourself and it makes you feel grounded. I write first thing in the morning starting at 6:50 or 7:00 am and go until about 7:30. It requires alot of discipline, but it's well worth it.
> starlight
starlightWOW!!! I just can't imagine writing 3 pages. I think I'd have a hard time writing 3 lines. What would I have to write. I'm feeling severely depressed and my meds aren't working and I've lost my friends once again. I really don't have any other than that to write. I guess I just miss the point, even though I know several people who journalize every day. I just wouldn't know where to begin. Every day would also be the same. What a boring read that would be. :(
Posted by starlight on May 13, 2004, at 10:54:09
In reply to Re: Pdocs? (long ... as usual) ? starlight, posted by Angel Girl on May 12, 2004, at 17:28:13
That's where you start, and then you just keep rolling. Write yourself a new story. So after you write:
"WOW!!! I just can't imagine writing 3 pages. I think I'd have a hard time writing 3 lines. What would I have to write. I'm feeling severely depressed and my meds aren't working and I've lost my friends once again. I really don't have any other than that to write. I guess I just miss the point, even though I know several people who journalize every day. I just wouldn't know where to begin. Every day would also be the same. What a boring read that would be. :("
Change it up! Notice things around you and write about that - I'll give you an example -
I woke up this morning and the house was dark. The cat was on the bed warming my feet. Even though my meds aren't working and I feel depressed, there's this deep part of me that never changes, never ages - it knows a constant attachment to the universe and is there to support me. I feel like I have no one - but I do, I have a whole list of people who write and listen to me vent and are seriously concerned for my health and welfare. This lifts my spirit. I know that when I feel this way, I'm magnifying the problem, and I'm failing to realize the truth around me - that life is everywhere, even the ground beneath my feet does it's job by supporting me as I move through this world. I look in the mirror and deep in my eyes I see this constant - this constant love that I hold for myself, despite the hard time I have locating it.
So you see - you just keep going. Rewrite the story, in your story, see the person you want to see and give her a voice. DON'T JUDGE IT EVER! Don't even go back and read it - just do it. Judging it blocks it and what we want to do is to break through the blocks that hold you back and add to your negative thoughts. Read what you said, see the blockage there, and get rid of it. It's in your power to do so.starlight
Posted by Angel Girl on May 14, 2004, at 14:31:05
In reply to Re: Pdocs? (long ... as usual), posted by starlight on May 13, 2004, at 10:54:09
> That's where you start, and then you just keep rolling. Write yourself a new story. So after you write:
>
> "WOW!!! I just can't imagine writing 3 pages. I think I'd have a hard time writing 3 lines. What would I have to write. I'm feeling severely depressed and my meds aren't working and I've lost my friends once again. I really don't have any other than that to write. I guess I just miss the point, even though I know several people who journalize every day. I just wouldn't know where to begin. Every day would also be the same. What a boring read that would be. :("
>
>
> Change it up! Notice things around you and write about that - I'll give you an example -
> I woke up this morning and the house was dark. The cat was on the bed warming my feet. Even though my meds aren't working and I feel depressed, there's this deep part of me that never changes, never ages - it knows a constant attachment to the universe and is there to support me. I feel like I have no one - but I do, I have a whole list of people who write and listen to me vent and are seriously concerned for my health and welfare. This lifts my spirit. I know that when I feel this way, I'm magnifying the problem, and I'm failing to realize the truth around me - that life is everywhere, even the ground beneath my feet does it's job by supporting me as I move through this world. I look in the mirror and deep in my eyes I see this constant - this constant love that I hold for myself, despite the hard time I have locating it.
>
>
> So you see - you just keep going. Rewrite the story, in your story, see the person you want to see and give her a voice. DON'T JUDGE IT EVER! Don't even go back and read it - just do it. Judging it blocks it and what we want to do is to break through the blocks that hold you back and add to your negative thoughts. Read what you said, see the blockage there, and get rid of it. It's in your power to do so.
>
> starlight
>starlight
I guess I never looked at it from that angle. I'll give it a try. I think it would be very therapeudic (sp?) to write it out, to release your feelings for that day. Thanks for giving me an example, it really helped me. I appreciate that.
Angel Girl
Posted by Ilene on May 16, 2004, at 19:24:58
In reply to Journalizing » starlight, posted by Angel Girl on May 14, 2004, at 14:31:05
I keep my diary on-line on Social. I call it a diary. Some people actually read it, even though it's pretty mundane. I haven't been keeping it for the past week because I've been away from home.
Posted by Angel Girl on May 18, 2004, at 4:28:42
In reply to Re: Journalizing, posted by Ilene on May 16, 2004, at 19:24:58
> I keep my diary on-line on Social. I call it a diary. Some people actually read it, even though it's pretty mundane. I haven't been keeping it for the past week because I've been away from home.
Ilene
I don't understand what you mean when you say you do it on Social. Do you mean the PB Social Board? Can you give me a link so that I can see how you do it please? If you'd rather not, that's fine. I think mine would be pretty much mundane too unless something happened on any particular day to bother me or trigger memories.
Thanks,
Angel Girl
Posted by Ilene on May 18, 2004, at 8:35:24
In reply to Re: Journalizing » Ilene, posted by Angel Girl on May 18, 2004, at 4:28:42
Yes, I do on the PB Social board. This is my entry from yesterday:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20040517/msgs/347987.html
I began it on the regular PB board when I was starting new medication. It morphed from being about the meds to being a regular diary, so I moved it to Social.Also, my pdoc wanted me to keep track of my moods. I started keeping a mood diary, but I couldn't keep it up without including what I was doing and thinking.
I find that knowing someone might read it makes it easier to write, in a way. It helps me keep doing it.
Posted by Angel Girl on May 18, 2004, at 8:58:52
In reply to Re: Journalizing » Angel Girl, posted by Ilene on May 18, 2004, at 8:35:24
> Yes, I do on the PB Social board. This is my entry from yesterday:
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20040517/msgs/347987.html
> I began it on the regular PB board when I was starting new medication. It morphed from being about the meds to being a regular diary, so I moved it to Social.
>
> Also, my pdoc wanted me to keep track of my moods. I started keeping a mood diary, but I couldn't keep it up without including what I was doing and thinking.
>
> I find that knowing someone might read it makes it easier to write, in a way. It helps me keep doing it.
>
Hi! Thanks. I actually found it on my own, wonders never cease. lol!!! I've been reading it. I have to tell you, on the days you think you barely do anything, you actually amaze me. You put me to shame. I can barely force myself to even do one thing a day and there are lots of days I don't even do that. I have absolutely no motivation to do the things that I know need doing. I applaud you for doing all that you do even though you think it is not a lot. You don't give yourself enough credit.Angel Girl
Posted by Ilene on May 18, 2004, at 10:03:48
In reply to Re: Journalizing » Ilene, posted by Angel Girl on May 18, 2004, at 8:58:52
One of the reasons I give a run-down of my activities is so I can look back and realize I *did* do something. I've been feeling better lately, but that's a relative term. I'm still depressed and anxious, and I get knocked back pretty easily.
Posted by Angel Girl on May 18, 2004, at 23:03:06
In reply to Doing things » Angel Girl, posted by Ilene on May 18, 2004, at 10:03:48
> One of the reasons I give a run-down of my activities is so I can look back and realize I *did* do something. I've been feeling better lately, but that's a relative term. I'm still depressed and anxious, and I get knocked back pretty easily.
Ilene
Unfortunately for me, there would be very few days that I would even accomplish anything. Somedays I don't even get dressed. I totally lack motivation. I will look at something and know it needs doing and I want it done but I can't seem to find the energy or even the desire to put the effort into actually doing it. It does make me feel better once it is done but in reality (mine anyways) it will end up back in the same condition before long anyway so what's the point is what I tell myself. If anybody came knocking unexpectedly at my door, I would pretend I wasn't home. If I was to journalize like you do, I would find extremely little positive things to say each day other than the fact that I at least got out of bed, but I'd probably be taking a nap later in the day so maybe one cancels out the other. I don't get anxious unless I have to deal with people or go out. When I'm in my 'comfort zone' I just have to deal with my never ending depression, lack of self-esteem and self-worth and motivation. I just exist and nothing more. How sad is that? But sad as that is, I still can't find the motivation to change it. At this rate, I'll never get back to work. I've been off since October 2001 on long term disability.
Angel Girl
Posted by starlight on May 19, 2004, at 11:00:39
In reply to Re: Journalizing ? Ilene, posted by Angel Girl on May 18, 2004, at 4:28:42
I fully recommend doing it by hand. There's a special connection that occurs where your index finger meets the thumb (hmmm, opposable thumbs - huge step in our evolution as human beings). It makes it more personal and supposedly more truthful.
starlight
Posted by starlight on May 19, 2004, at 11:04:50
In reply to Re: Doing things ? Ilene, posted by Angel Girl on May 18, 2004, at 23:03:06
There you have your first paragraph. You should pick up the book "Feeling Good" I believe by David Burns? He gives 10 reasons/categories that our thoughts slip into when we're depressed. It's quite remarkable. Even when you're in bed and don't want to get out, you can journal. The idea behind it is you get everything out and onto paper, which helps to get it out of your head and create space for better thoughts.
starlight
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 21, 2004, at 7:26:19
In reply to Re: Doing things, posted by starlight on May 19, 2004, at 11:04:50
> You should pick up the book "Feeling Good" I believe by David Burns? He gives 10 reasons/categories that our thoughts slip into when we're depressed...
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by Angel Girl on May 21, 2004, at 11:44:28
In reply to Re: Journalizing, posted by starlight on May 19, 2004, at 11:00:39
> I fully recommend doing it by hand. There's a special connection that occurs where your index finger meets the thumb (hmmm, opposable thumbs - huge step in our evolution as human beings). It makes it more personal and supposedly more truthful.
> starlight
starlightI am doing mine by hand. I think it is better to have in black and white so that you can refer to it whenever you want but otoh, it's harder to do because typing is so much faster and you can fix your mistakes easier. lol!!!
Angel Girl
Posted by Angel Girl on May 21, 2004, at 11:51:51
In reply to Re: Doing things, posted by starlight on May 19, 2004, at 11:04:50
> There you have your first paragraph. You should pick up the book "Feeling Good" I believe by David Burns? He gives 10 reasons/categories that our thoughts slip into when we're depressed. It's quite remarkable. Even when you're in bed and don't want to get out, you can journal. The idea behind it is you get everything out and onto paper, which helps to get it out of your head and create space for better thoughts.
> starlight
>
starlightActually I have that book. My brother leant it to me in October 2001 when I first told my famly what was going on with me. I've read about 2 chapters and that is about it. I don't particularily like to read but I've heard so many people recommend this book that maybe I should make a point of having another go at it, even if I read one chapter every couple of days. That shouldn't be 'too' hard to accomplish but since I don't read at all right now, it's probably too much for me to accomplish. That's pathetic. IMHO!!! I should really give it a try though. Now, I just have to FIND the dang thing. That'll be a chore in itself.
Angel Girl
Posted by starlight on May 21, 2004, at 16:52:26
In reply to Re: Doing things ? starlight, posted by Angel Girl on May 21, 2004, at 11:51:51
Sometimes the reason that we don't like something is because we need it. The postures that I dislike the most in yoga, are the ones I need the most work in. But I see them coming and go, "Oh no!, not that posture again!" And I immediately want to avoid it.
The part about procrastination doesn't apply to me - but the part of the book that I liked the most and identifyed with is the 10 erroneous thinking patterns, like fortune telling, mind reading, magnification, etc. I think those are very definitely worth memorizing and working on. When I read them, I kept going - I do that...I do that....
starlight
This is the end of the thread.
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