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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 22 to 46 of 46. Go back in thread:
Posted by B2chica on July 18, 2004, at 14:53:45
In reply to Re: Re: Question for all? -- try this » karen_kay, posted by 64bowtie on July 18, 2004, at 11:14:32
>>(Here I go getting-cerebral again.....)
>>Of the nine senses, the vagus nerve is reponsible for collecting the "wellness" stuff, and providing a moment by moment snapshot of our....... wellness.refresh me, is the vagus the 7th or the 10th CN?
...wait, the 7th is the auditory right???
-yes i realize this is not jepardy and probably noone else in a "right-mind" (whatever that is) cares...but when i got a question i's got's to get it answered!
b2c.
Posted by terrics on July 18, 2004, at 16:14:47
In reply to Question for all?, posted by JenStar on July 16, 2004, at 18:00:58
To me this is my therapeutic home. Therapy hurts. Babble heals or at least gives support. Almost everyone is kind, caring, and intelligent. It is a good place to be. terrics
Posted by terrics on July 18, 2004, at 16:24:45
In reply to Re: Question for all? » fires, posted by karen_kay on July 18, 2004, at 9:50:06
you can post to me if you want. Karen does not have to be alone....terrics
Posted by cubic_me on July 18, 2004, at 17:23:37
In reply to Re: Re: Question for all? ...CN? » 64bowtie, posted by B2chica on July 18, 2004, at 14:53:45
>
> refresh me, is the vagus the 7th or the 10th CN?Yes, it's the 10th CN, though I'm not sure about the theory of it being responsible for wellness -surely there is alot more to it than that. I've been taught that it mainly serves as a symathetic regulator of autonomic responses, but know little of its sensory functions. Any ideas?
Posted by Joslynn on July 18, 2004, at 20:13:18
In reply to Question for all?, posted by JenStar on July 16, 2004, at 18:00:58
I don't post much on PB, but I do lurk a lot, just to read up on things and see if I can relate. I don't talk about PB to other people. I kind of like that there is a place where no one knows my face or name (the opposite of the Cheers theme song).
However, I do talk about therapy and depression issues with other real-life friends who have been depressed and in therapy. I just don't discuss this board. They are not that cyber-savvy so I just don't think they would get it.
I don't tell my pdoc or my therp because I don't want them to go on and try to reconize me, not that I think they even would have time for that. I like to have a place where I can talk about them! I bet they have groups etc where they talk about their clients so we need something too.
Posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2004, at 20:35:46
In reply to Re: Re: Question for all? ...CN?, posted by cubic_me on July 18, 2004, at 17:23:37
The vagus nerve is both sensory and motor. The sensory function is to transmit sensory information from the organs in the chest and abdomen, from our internal blood pressure monitors (carotid sinus), and the measures of oxygen and other elements in the blood gasses. In addition, it carries taste sensations from the back of the tongue and pharynx. Last, it lets the brain know of the position in space of the throat and voice box.
Or so one of the multitudes of textbooks I cannot seem to pitch says.
Regards,
gg
Posted by shadows721 on July 18, 2004, at 20:57:18
In reply to Question for all?, posted by JenStar on July 16, 2004, at 18:00:58
I post here a good bit and I keep what's on here to myself. I don't share it with no one. I feel that this place is like a support group similiar to the rule of AA. What's here - Stay's here. I don't share what goes on with my therapy with my family and that's how I feel about this forum.
I feel this place is safe to a degree. I feel that since it is very public and anyone can jump in and leave as they please. I do have to be on guard just as I would with any group meeting. The current group that I belong to outside of therapy is also public. Occasionally, we have people come in and just blast us and leave. I feel the same can and does happen here.
Posted by 64bowtie on July 19, 2004, at 2:47:32
In reply to Re: Re: Question for all? ...CN? » 64bowtie, posted by B2chica on July 18, 2004, at 14:53:45
B2c,
I don't know a cardinal or ordinal arrangement of senses... I, however, have written and "shopped" a short magazine article, "the Concert of The Senses"... My position is that no one sense is enough by itself... In fact, as I diagram in my article, a baseball pitcher must use a sharing of most of his (or her) senses to get the ball across home plate the way he wants, to do his job... Propriaceptor, "muscle memory", our kinescetic sense, I am in awe of... The human body becomes magnificent with the practiced abilities available to us via our "muscle memory" sense...
I must state that vision, our visual cortex, is a spectacular property able to provide nearly any improvement to our daily lives... Vision is the only sense that operates in the forground and background (multi-task) in the here and now... I call the background-awareness function of vision as the "mind's-eye"... A therapist apparently don't need to place clients into a trance via hypnosis to do most of their work, once they can accept that clients can function effectively at more than one level, simultaneously... I'm not saying hypnosis is bad or good... I'm saying that sickness doesn't have to cause the client to be so distracted to be unmanageable, that hypnosis is the only way to make progress... I am suspicious that the seemingly magical nature of hypnosis has such strong allure for the new therapist, that they can't resist trying it...
I maintain that we have all the tools in our beings to find our way all the way to wellness; whole being wellness, not just physical wellness... Life Coaching by the properly trained and mature practitioner is another source of guidance that produces effective results... The mental health industry is pushing for legislation in several states nartionwide to criminalize life-coaches not certified by mental health industry standards... A reminder, before Freud et al, philosophical practitioners were keeping people functional; for 3,000 years or so...
Toodles......
Rod
PS: 64Bowtie is my username derived from 1964 Chevrolet Pick-Up, refering to my "hobby project" vehicle... Anything Chevy is nicknamed "bowtie" from the Chevy emblem... I made a mistake with my first username, and my second username was toooo wierd; ergo 64Bowtie...
Posted by 64bowtie on July 19, 2004, at 2:51:03
In reply to Re: Re: Question for all? ...CN? » cubic_me, posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2004, at 20:35:46
GG,
I appreciate your attention to this info... I am trying to share without toooo much "jargonese"... How am I doing?
Rod
Posted by 64bowtie on July 19, 2004, at 2:57:55
In reply to Re: Question for all?, posted by shadows721 on July 18, 2004, at 20:57:18
Shadow,
A few hundred OA, Alanon, and ACA meetings later and today I'm a miracle......
Rod
Posted by Dinah on July 19, 2004, at 7:46:09
In reply to Mo better info... » B2chica, posted by 64bowtie on July 19, 2004, at 2:47:32
Are you saying that everyone is a candidate for life coaching by unlicensed coaches rather than therapy by trained and licensed therapists?
It seems awfully risky to me. We get in enough trouble with the people who *are* trained and licensed.
What would a life coach do with a client who had a psychotic break during "coaching"?
I guess as long as the life coaches had plenty of malpractice insurance... No, maybe not. Because that wouldn't really compensate for the damage involved.
Perhaps I misunderstood you. I certainly think life coaching has its place. It may even be all that many people need, including many who are now in therapy. But I was rather hoping that life coaches had sufficient knowledge of mental health issues to know when they were in over their head and a client really should be seen by someone with extensive training in mental health problems.
But if life coaches aren't confining their practices to, well, life coaching, and instead are practicing therapy - how is that different than practicing therapy without a license? Do you consider practicing therapy without a license to be a good thing? Putting people with a fair amount of power over others outside any regulation whatsoever?
Posted by TexasChic on July 19, 2004, at 8:39:41
In reply to Question for all?, posted by JenStar on July 16, 2004, at 18:00:58
I share much more on Babble than I do irl. I think regardless of our dx, the people here feel sympathetic and kind of a bond to each other. For instance, someone that's bipolar would be much more understanding about my depression or OCD than someone who had no such illness. And since its online, we can have as much personal space as we need. Good question Jen.
T
Posted by karen_kay on July 19, 2004, at 11:18:54
In reply to Re: Question for all? » fires, posted by karen_kay on July 18, 2004, at 9:50:06
and could i grow up for a moment? i'm young. and i'm sorry. i think once emmy made a post about starting over.
i'm kk and it's nice to meet you. if you're leaving, i understand. i think soemtimes we forget that this is psychobabble and we all do have our own unique set of issues. and i'm sorry if you feel that you've been 'run out'. i'm also very sorry if you feel that i'm one of the town's folks who did that.
take care fires. and do feel free to challenge me anytime. honestly!
kk
Posted by AuntieMel on July 19, 2004, at 14:13:06
In reply to fires, could i change my mind?, posted by karen_kay on July 19, 2004, at 11:18:54
I thrive on debate (usually)
There are days that it's beyond me.
I also notice that lots of folks here have days where it may be beyond them, too.
But - I much prefer debating concepts than facts. Debating facts boils down to who knows google better.
Posted by Jai Narayan on July 19, 2004, at 22:29:50
In reply to Re: Question for all? » fires, posted by karen_kay on July 18, 2004, at 9:50:06
Oh Gosh, fires you sound so hurt.....
What has hurt you so much?
I personally don't believe in psychosomatic illness....
I think if you feel sick you may well be ill.
I may be wrong but I am an empath and tend to believe people know what may be happening inside of themselves.
You sound so unhappy...I am concerned.
Posted by 64bowtie on July 20, 2004, at 0:49:34
In reply to Re: Mo better info... » 64bowtie, posted by Dinah on July 19, 2004, at 7:46:09
(((Dinah))),
>Are you saying that everyone is a candidate for life coaching…
<<< [Everyone] might be a little overstated, so I say no.>…by unlicensed coaches rather than therapy by trained and licensed therapists?
<<<You left off “fully trained and certified” as far as coaches are qualified is absolutely essential...>It seems awfully risky to me. We get in enough trouble with the people who *are* trained and licensed.
>What would a life coach do with a client who had a psychotic break during "coaching"?
<<< Fully “trained and certified” involves training for effective screening of new clients. For instance, I have devised questions that I use flush out affective disorders etc. Even when unsure, training encourages suggesting the client spend some time in therapy first before working on recovery issues via life coaching. I wouldn’t feel comfortable without seeing the therapist’s evaluation upon the client’s release before entering into a client-coach contract, really! Remember, I only focus on bad habits. I don’t guarantee that I can remove the pain and the voices. I do guarantee that if the client stays on track, they will do it themselves, eventually. If they are so affected as not to sense the importance of habits, they are not ready for life-coaching.>I guess as long as the life coaches had plenty of malpractice insurance... No, maybe not. Because that wouldn't really compensate for the damage involved.
>Perhaps I misunderstood you. I certainly think life coaching has its place. It may even be all that many people need, including many who are now in therapy. But I was rather hoping that life coaches had sufficient knowledge of mental health issues to know when they were in over their head and a client really should be seen by someone with extensive training in mental health problems.
>But if life coaches aren't confining their practices to, well, life coaching, and instead are practicing therapy - how is that different than practicing therapy without a license? Do you consider practicing therapy without a license to be a good thing? Putting people with a fair amount of power over others outside any regulation whatsoever?<<< I hope I have made it clear. I am always available as dr10day-lifecoach@yahoo.com.
Rod
PS: Its arrogant for the mental-health-industry to think help is “one-size-fits-all” or else. Life-Coaching has been around for about 3,000 years. Psychotherapy has been around for 125 years. Most clients would rather get help from their pastor than enter into therapy for 15 to 20 $150 appointments, complete with access to “meds” and delving into unresolved childhood issues, ...and with no resolution in sight. We know pastors aren’t licensed, trained, or certified. Also, their motives are questionable and results are random. Where’s the surety in that? I trust you, (((Dinah))). I trust that if you wanted to become a therapist, I would happily send you clients.
Posted by 64bowtie on July 20, 2004, at 0:58:42
In reply to Re: No, I want to be challanged - fires » karen_kay, posted by AuntieMel on July 19, 2004, at 14:13:06
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2004, at 3:25:55
In reply to Hope this answers...» (((Dinah))), posted by 64bowtie on July 20, 2004, at 0:49:34
Yes, that does make me feel better. I hadn't thought that life coaching was intended for psychopathology, and I'm glad to hear that life coaches don't try to tackle it.
Do you oppose licensing and oversight of life coaches? One nice thing about licensing is that there is some recourse for clients. Unfortunately there are some people in every field that might be more deterred from bad behavior by the prospect of official censure than by any other method.
Posted by gardenergirl on July 20, 2004, at 10:01:04
In reply to Thanx again » GG, posted by 64bowtie on July 19, 2004, at 2:51:03
Rod,
I can see the results of your efforts in your posts. I admit, I did wonder about your comments about hypnosis. I'm not sure I understand how where this fits in. Unless I missed something, it came out of the blue to me. Can you explain, please?Thanks,
gg
Posted by AuntieMel on July 20, 2004, at 12:54:23
In reply to Said Oh so well... (nm) » AuntieMel, posted by 64bowtie on July 20, 2004, at 0:58:42
Posted by 64bowtie on July 21, 2004, at 2:43:33
In reply to Re: Hope this answers... » 64bowtie, posted by Dinah on July 20, 2004, at 3:25:55
(((Dinah))),
> Do you oppose licensing and oversight of life coaches?
<<< I oppose the assumption of the mental-health-industry that there is only one-way or the Hi-way... First of all, coaches that don't discover there own freedom and happiness, won't be able to understand what they are doing, so licensing them won't help protect any clients. Also, licensing is political expedience. It creates a self-fulfilling myth of security.
I trust my perceptions because I have trained myself to perceive without bias. As you have seen over and over from me, I don't know yet how to communicate my knowledge...... yet. Please accept my continuing gratitude for your attention. Some day I will have good words and good examples and good case studies that all can rely on. Until then, licensing and its riduclous outdated political proclivities, shades of "...father always knows best..."; big brother is watching (for big brother's sake, not your sake!)
>One nice thing about licensing is that there is some recourse for clients.
<<< Actually, in our litiginous society, any bad-guys who slip through and cause client death and destruction will be "Toast"! Governments and regulation in this case constipate the process of resolution. With the right influence, the bad-guy can extinguish any investigation since the government did certify him and don't want to get sued for making a lethal mistake. Life-coaching is not astrology, wicca, nor is it even Masonic. I have no issues with those practices but know some folks who do.
>Unfortunately there are some people in every field that might be more deterred from bad behavior by the prospect of official censure than by any other method.
<<< Attorneys and the market are much quicker at interdiction than licensing agencys.None of this is set into concrete. Things continue to change. People are getting worse as things in the world are getting better. Do I advocate a 5,000,000,000 people die-off??? No; never; and it will happen without me lifting a finger; and sooner instead of later. But the planet will go on without them, continuing to change like it is changing right now.
Take care to take care...
Rod
Posted by Dinah on July 21, 2004, at 5:43:53
In reply to Re: Hope this answers..., posted by 64bowtie on July 21, 2004, at 2:43:33
I think we'll have to agree to disagree about licensing. It's not a perfect system, but it does introduce some standards. (Continuing education, oversight, etc.) Most professions where there is great power differentials have licensing and oversight of some sort.
I didn't quite understand the reference to the 5 million. Is that the gross population of the set of clients you'd like to help? What is happening to them now? I'll be away till next Tuesday and when I get back I'm not sure I'll be able to check up on back posts. I'm backed up at work too. So if I don't respond, please know it's nothing personal.
Posted by gardenergirl on July 21, 2004, at 10:11:31
In reply to Re: Hope this answers..., posted by 64bowtie on July 21, 2004, at 2:43:33
Rod,
I feel I must add my comments and questions to the discussion.
>
> I trust my perceptions because I have trained myself to perceive without bias. ... Some day I will have good words and good examples and good case studies that all can rely on.Psychologists conduct efficacy and effectivity research on clinical modalities, and have been doing so for decades. In addition, case studies date back to the days of Epictetus. But this research and a therapist's trust in his or her own skill is not enough for the profession or for the public. Am I to take the word of the counselor or therapist that they are free from bias, competent, appropriately trained, and adheres to a set of values and ethics which are consistent with appropriate care?
> Until then, licensing and its riduclous outdated political proclivities, shades of "...father always knows best..."; big brother is watching (for big brother's sake, not your sake!)
I'm not sure I understand your concerns with licensing. In most states, licensure laws for psychologists are written by the Rules Committee of the state legislature. These rules are usually based on APA guidelines for competent care and training. In addition, state associations and other interested parties, including consumers, provide consultation. So I don't tend to view licensure laws as "Big Brother" per se, as in the government setting the standards. Rather, it appears to me to be the profession itself, via advocacy and consultation with legislators which establish and enforce licensure standards. Surely a similar approach for life coaches would not be oppressive? And this may also eliminate the need for the client to make a gut judgement based on the coach's statements of competency.
>
> With the right influence, the bad-guy can extinguish any investigation since the government did certify him and don't want to get sued for making a lethal mistake.In the case of psychology, and I'm sure other professsions, licensure or certification provides initial evidence of competency. It does not guarantee that the professional will continue to maintain competency, although in my state there are requirements for continuing education. But I don't agree that the government would fail to investigate out of fear that their licensure of an individual who meets criteria but nevertheless committed some error or malice towards a client would create liability for the licensing body.
>Life-coaching is not astrology, wicca, nor is it even Masonic. I have no issues with those practices but know some folks who do.
I'm not sure where you are going here, but I think this statement further supports the idea that life coaching is an occupation worthy of the validation provided by legal oversight.
> None of this is set into concrete. Things continue to change. People are getting worse as things in the world are getting better. Do I advocate a 5,000,000,000 people die-off??? No; never; and it will happen without me lifting a finger; and sooner instead of later. But the planet will go on without them, continuing to change like it is changing right now.Rod, 5/6 of the world population dying off is not what I would consider the world going on. Your statement here seems full of pessimism. What's going on?
gg
Posted by 64bowtie on July 21, 2004, at 17:59:25
In reply to Re: Hope this answers... » 64bowtie, posted by Dinah on July 21, 2004, at 5:43:53
> I think we'll have to agree to disagree about licensing. It's not a perfect system, but it does introduce some standards. (Continuing education, oversight, etc.) Most professions where there is great power differentials have licensing and oversight of some sort.
<<< Oh, I agree that mental-health-professionals need close watching, one-by-one. I am irritated that they want coaches to have the same training and same licensure when we don't imply that we offer what therapists offer. We aren't attempting to rescue anyone. We want to teach, instruct, train, expand, and let all those work the miracles of recovery in the person's own life and in thier own time.
> I didn't quite understand the reference to the 5 million. Is that the gross population of the set of clients you'd like to help? What is happening to them now? I'll be away till next Tuesday and when I get back I'm not sure I'll be able to check up on back posts. I'm backed up at work too. So if I don't respond, please know it's nothing personal.<<< 5 billion, 5/6 of the population, by 2008.
Rod
Posted by 64bowtie on July 22, 2004, at 0:30:17
In reply to Re: Hope this answers... » 64bowtie, posted by gardenergirl on July 21, 2004, at 10:11:31
>
> Rod, 5/6 of the world population dying off is not what I would consider the world going on. Your statement here seems full of pessimism. What's going on?
><<< It was my bad idea, and I apologise!!! I was not being pessimistic from my point of view... I am attempting to search for optional outcomes, and this scenario keeps coming up from every angle and from all over the place.
1. The world as we know it will dramatically change forever as of 2012.
2. Another species will help the remaining humans begin rebuilding around 2020.
3. There will be a remarkable peace of 1000 years.
4. Our Sun stops flaring and starts to actually dim, progressing to a red giant by sometime before the year 4000, devouring planets including the Earth.
Pessimism doesn't allow for analysis. Analysis allows for preparations for optional outcomes, like leaving the planet before it becomes inhospitable.
....I hope I get to see some of that 1000 years of peace.
Rod
This is the end of the thread.
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