![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 124 to 148 of 241. Go back in thread:
Posted by lucy stone on July 28, 2004, at 17:36:36
In reply to Re: Thanks Lcy, posted by starlight on July 28, 2004, at 17:23:55
Of course I know that. If I could do that I wouldn't be in therapy. With the help of my T I will learn how to do it. Right now I don't.
> You know the comforting part is something that you have to do for yourself. That's hard to hear and hard to do, but really, you've got to be able to do it. You come into the world alone, you go out of it alone so you have to be able to take care of yourself/love yourself/comfort yourself along the way. starlight
Posted by starlight on July 28, 2004, at 18:18:35
In reply to Re: Thanks Lcy, posted by lucy stone on July 28, 2004, at 17:36:36
I saw this great t-shirt when I was back in school. It said: "If you want to know where you stand, Stand Alone." I always thought that was such a great line.
starlight
Posted by gardenergirl on July 28, 2004, at 20:33:05
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by JenStar on July 28, 2004, at 16:34:34
Wow, thanks for your insights. That is a good description of some of my own neuroses! It's helpful to see someone else articulate it.
Take care,
gg
Posted by Dinah on July 30, 2004, at 18:59:02
In reply to Re: Thanks Lcy, posted by starlight on July 28, 2004, at 17:23:55
We're all different, I guess. I don't find that thought particularly comforting. And I don't think that the human species was meant to be composed of lone rangers. I don't even think other cultures in the world think this way. It's a uniquely Western view, I think.
I didn't come into the world alone. I came into the world connected to my mother. :) She may not have been a perfect mom, but she loved me and tried to do her best for me. And while I wasn't connected to my dad physically, I was with him too. So I came into the world surrounded by people who loved me and wanted me to be with them. I rather hope to leave the world the same way.
I find interdependence far more beautiful than independence. A lot harder to maintain, but well worth the effort with the right people.
Posted by kindgirl on July 31, 2004, at 5:31:59
In reply to Re: I mean, my post was for Jadah, posted by Jadah on July 19, 2004, at 21:09:54
Jadah,
I am late here in this thread but read your post early on and my heart just ached for yours. I was going to post back to you that I hope you could find another therapist (not to replace him...but to help in this entirely separate issue you have not that includes him), and I think you could do it and not even necessarily disclose everything. You could talk very vaguely about all of it, and I know another perspective might help clear your eyes a bit. Yes, tear-filled eyes...
I am so sorry.You asked how many people would say yes, and I really don't know. This is not the same situation, but I had a teacher that I really really loved...he was like a therapist for me in a lot of ways...I trusted him, confided in him...I was in high school....he was married, but I still dreamed of fooling around with this dream man and "going all the way."
One day, it happened. He started to do things with his hands...just as an introduction to see if I was willing...and it went from there in the next few weeks. Boy was I willing! And you know, it is like you said, the dream was so much better than the fantasy. The physical relationship was not what I thought it would be...he was a selfish partner and I found out things about him I didn't want to know that totally ruined the fantasy.
My therapist is a female, and to be honest, I have had fantasies about her. From what I read, this is pretty typical, so I try not to freak about it. I am hetero and married, but I do wonder what it would be like to "know" her...to know all about her...to feel special to her because she does with me what she didn't do with anyone else, etc. You know, I am sure.
So, there is a huge part of me that would say "no" simply because I have been in this kind of thing where someone I idolized and wanted soooooooooooooooo badly took me up on it, and it turned out badly. But I have to say there is another big part of me that would jump at the situation because the desire is so intense and the longing and loneliness to be known and loved deep down is so great I would do anything to feel close to her, no matter what. Am I making any sense? Are you even reading this thread anymore?
You ARE very articulate and sound very loving and compassionate and so I bet you are a wonderful social worker. What would you say to you if you were one of your clients? Now you know what the whole mess feels like, unfortunately. I hope some good will come out of it...I think it will. Thinking of you and hoping you are well...
Posted by Susan47 on July 31, 2004, at 10:13:43
In reply to Re: Independence » starlight, posted by Dinah on July 30, 2004, at 18:59:02
I really liked the way you expressed yourself.
It makes me think.
Thank you.
Posted by Jadah on July 31, 2004, at 18:10:25
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by pinkeye on July 17, 2004, at 1:36:45
I actually have looked into another therapist. I havent discussed this with my T though. I wonder about the outcome: will he say then that we need to stop everything and stick strictly to therapy the way it was? (this is not what I want), will he feel betrayed that i sought out someone to repalce him? What if I see a new therapist and then our affair ends? Will I end up with a complete loss of him? I think I will keep this other therapist lined up in the wind if my current situation goes array. I cant bear to lose him completely. I feel like, for now, I do have the best of both worlds, worlds that will collide in time. Although some of you disagree with what is going on, I have no regrets, not at this point anyway. I do need to find a way to "soften the blow" when things change, minimize the hurt. Even then, I dont believe I would give back anything I had/have with him for the world. It has been a very nurturing, learning experience. It happened, it continues, I have to take responsibility for my part including the consequences. I wonder though, even with a new T, if the transference would become overwhelming and the rejection of my desire be just as hurtful. For now, I am content. Each day is exciting, wondering what and when things will happen next. I know my story is different than most. I hope people can get what they can from it, but I also wonder if I am merely agitating some of you. I do not want to disturb anyone especially in your struggles with transferenc/countertransference issues. This is a wonderfull and safe place for me, but if my messages are upsetting anyone please let me know. That is not my intention. I do take into account what everyones input is. Everything seems twofold and difficult for me at times, to hear your input. I do appreciate it. Please try to find empathy and understanding within yourselves and try not to become impatient with me. Your words are wise, but easier said than done. Hope to hear from you all soon.
Posted by kindgirl on July 31, 2004, at 21:37:36
In reply to Re: everyones advice, posted by Jadah on July 31, 2004, at 18:10:25
Jadah,
You are sooooooooooooooooooooooo honest and that is soooooooooooooooooooo great. Thank you for keeping the doors open here, and your writings/feelings do not offend me in any way at all. I think you offer a lot of wisdom and insight for all of us. So, thanks for that!Those feelings run so deep for him. You care a lot about him, and you have a history with him. Do you ever listen to New Life Live (radio show)? It is hosted by Stephen Arterburn and John Townsend, and your situation reminds me of one that I heard about last week. This man called in because he was having an affair with another man for over 40 years. This man started to have feelings for a woman at work, and called in because he was so conflicted, so hurt, and didn't know what to do. I love the advice they gave him...
This is what they said in a nutshell...even though the situation may be wrong, sinful, not what is best for you or him, your feelings for him are real and you truly do love him. That is the truth. He has some very wonderful qualities about him and that is what you love about him and what attracts you to him. It is not all bad. It isn't that simple.The caller wanted to get out of the relationship but didn't know how. He was very upset...and their advice was for the man to sleep on the couch...keep the relationship but move away slowly over time. I think getting another therapist lined up is moving in that direction...and you need to cut yourself some slack and grace because this is excruciating for you. You are stuck between a rock and a hard place...if you stay you feel guilty and are afraid of the ultimate rejection/end of the relationship...if you go, you will miss him and your heart will break into a million pieces. Am I right?
You are so conflicted right now, I can hear that...and I only want to offer you my safe friendship and shoulder to cry on or ear to vent to...with absolutely no judgment. We have all been there...we have all made messes of our lives and so nobody is better than anyone else. Don't do that to yourself. I would say to you to keep journaling...just keep putting it all down...get it out somehow...talk to yourself...do some soul searching....and hang in there. You can write back to me whatever you want. No judgment. Promise.
(((((Jadah))))
Kindgirl
Posted by Susan47 on August 1, 2004, at 10:12:12
In reply to Re: everyones advice, posted by Jadah on July 31, 2004, at 18:10:25
I hope I haven't been unsupportive. In actual fact, and you may have guessed this, part of me envies the experiences you're having, even as another part of me goes "omigod what torture". If my therapist weren't married I would've really wanted to have an affair with him. I mean, I wanted to anyways, although knowing he was unavailable as a real partner in life, is what stopped me .. and the unwillingness to be part of that kind of deceit .. I couldn't help imagining what it must be like for the wife to be betrayed. THAT's NOT A JUDGEMENT ON YOU. Please understand that, Jadah. It's just how I think about my own situation, my ex-therapist (remember he fired me) etc.
I'm learning to withdraw from my ex-T and it's been easier than I expected. Him letting me go, I think, had everything to do (in my own situation) with being able to separate reality from fantasy.
I think about you frequently; partly envious, partly anxious. Please don't stop coming here. Your experience is teaching everyone something, and I do care about you, even though this is cyberspace. I know if I met you we would have big hugs. For ((((Jadah)))
Susan
Posted by Jadah on August 3, 2004, at 16:06:07
In reply to Re: everyones advice, posted by kindgirl on July 31, 2004, at 21:37:36
your name suits you. You do seem very kind and whole hearted. Thank you for the lack of judgement and support. Actually, today I am feeling very scared and insecure. I have, due to circumstances, missed my last two appointments with my T, I think the lack of contact has rendered me scared like a small child about to lose their favorite blanket. I did run in and get a hug from him, i left right after. My gut is wrenching, I just feel that he will end this soon. Last week I would have completely counterdicted this, I felt that he was becoming much more comfotrable with the whole affair. He helped take care of me when I was sick...did things for me that made it feel that we were in a "real" relationship. I was soooo happy that he took care of me and was there. I dont know what I am going to do when this ends. I cant see myself without him, literally. I dont know if I could handle that. We are talking about the ULTIMATE REJECTION, and I dont handle that well regardless. I am scared. Usually he comes over on Wednesdays (as well as other days), thats tomorrow. We'll see. I always get mad when he has other priorities, I feel like, "well arent I important too?" Family will always come first, I know. I lay in bed on the lonely nights and long for him. He sprayed my "security blanket" with Armani so I could smell him when he is not there. It hurts. So does the guilt knowing that I am, or potentially could be a "home wrecker". Im just full of mixed feelings today. IM IN LOVE WITH A MAN I CANT HAVE.....the story of my life..... Thanks for listening. How are you doing????
Jadah
Posted by Jadah on August 3, 2004, at 16:17:47
In reply to Hi Jadah, posted by Susan47 on August 1, 2004, at 10:12:12
Thank you for all of your support. I hope I am in some way helping you. HOLD ONTO YOUR FANTASIES, remember thogh that that is exactly what it is, which means no one can take that away from you and like i said, fantasies are always better than the real thing. Dont ever cross the line or try to see how far you could get (manipulate) your T, the pain and umbrella of emotions is more than a handful, a handfull Im sure was already over flowing or you wouldnt have gone to therapy in the first place. Today I am feeling really insecure, afraied he will leave me. I couldnt handle that. I had missed our last two appointments b/c I was sick, he did however take care of me... got my prescriptions, held me, fed me... it was as if we were in a "real" relationship. It always turns out the same though, he goes home to his wife. OUCH! I lie on my bed with my "security blanket" that he sprayed with Armani so that I could smell him even when he's not there. It hurts to long for something that you know has limitations. I AM IN LOVE WITH A MAN I CANT HAVE. I know the hurt is coming. I have a feeling he will try to control this relationship soon. Im scared, I know this cant go on forever, and I dont like feeling like I do not have control. I would do it over again, but I hate never knowing when..... I couldnt bare to live without him. Im really sensitive and insecure today. Can you tell??? How are you doing????
Jadah
Posted by starlight on August 3, 2004, at 16:21:51
In reply to Re: Susan, posted by Jadah on August 3, 2004, at 16:17:47
Hi Jadah,
Hang in there. Have you looked into finding another therapist? It's so hard when you're in love. You have all of my compassion and good thoughts.
starlight
Posted by pinkeye on August 3, 2004, at 16:51:49
In reply to Re: kindgirl, posted by Jadah on August 3, 2004, at 16:06:07
You need to get out of this. It is really dangerous for yourself to be in this situation, for your own good. Atleast, try finding anohter therapist and have a preliminary session. Your T will take control of this situation sooner or later, and you will be devastated when it happens. So prepare yourself first.
Posted by Susan47 on August 3, 2004, at 18:39:45
In reply to Re: Susan, posted by Jadah on August 3, 2004, at 16:17:47
Quickly I'll answer your question about how I'm doing. I'm angry at my ex-therapist for refusing to see me anymore.
I feel good about it at one level, because I did ask him to do that. On another, I'm angry because of all the times he let me down in the past and I ignored them all. Now this. I know that doesn't make much sense standing alone, but I'm counting on my week's history on the board to try and explain myself here.
Jadah, I was lucky because even in my fantasies, there was an end-point where my therapist would let me down. Such as going home to the wife, the person I suspect causes him grief; but also, his security in life.
I always knew that no matter what kind of man he was sexually, in the end it was his security that would matter; he has a long history with his family and no one who cared for him, could deny him that. Which made me realize, of course, that there were limits to how much *I* would be willing to sacrifice. And which suddenly made the whole thing impossible. Wow. I've never admitted that to myself before now.
I don't believe my therapist was a bad man, not at all. I think he *is* committed to the idea of his marriage, and I think he tries very hard, at times, to remind himself of this. And quite honestly, that's the very thing I love him and respect him for the most; so to jeopardize that love by trying to bring the man down from his pedestal *at the same time* I was gratifying one of my deadliest emotional needs (don't ask me why I say that, no clue), was self-defeating. Somehow I was lucky enough to recognize some part of me that was telling me that all along. If my ex-therapist were to read this, he might laugh at me, and I believe it wouldn't be the first time, but it is truth. (As I see it at this moment!!)
Jadah, you seem like such a sensitive, intelligent woman. I believe that you'll come through this whole, with a new understanding of how to help others.I believe (and please take note, I've been wrong before!!) that this somehow was your choice; even as it was his responsibility to deny both of you.
I hope you can feel my support. (((Jadah)))
Posted by Susan47 on August 3, 2004, at 18:45:46
In reply to Re: Susan, posted by Susan47 on August 3, 2004, at 18:39:45
Posted by Susan47 on August 3, 2004, at 19:19:40
In reply to Which responsibility wasn't lived up to (nm) » Susan47, posted by Susan47 on August 3, 2004, at 18:45:46
Omigawd I just realized....
I was the "other woman" before, with..ohmiugod. But I don't think it was ever played out.
Posted by Susan47 on August 3, 2004, at 19:23:39
In reply to May trigger, posted by Susan47 on August 3, 2004, at 19:19:40
Therapist was my dad, reconstructed into a man who would never let anything come between himself and his wife. Least of all his daughter. Sorry everybody. That's me. Go tit.
Posted by Jadah on August 3, 2004, at 19:25:31
In reply to Re: Susan, posted by starlight on August 3, 2004, at 16:21:51
hi, yes, I have a T in mind if I need to change. Im scared of that though. I dont know if I could ever trust anyone like my T, nor do I think anyone could meet my emotional needs like he does. My concerns: I dont want my T to feel betrayed that I am trying to replace him, I am afraid of strong transference with another T whom would reject me and between the rejection and the longing I dont know if I could get passed that to do good work. My T knows literally everything about me. I dont want to go thrrough that process again of having to repeat all of those painful things, of learning to trust and cry again, of feeling safe with this person, of knowing that they'll be there even outside of the appointments when i need them, feeling judged..... My T goes out of his way to meet my emotional needs when I am doing poorly. He worries about me and takes me seriously, he doesnt question what i am capable of doing and he therefore is there whenever I need him, even if it just means a late night phone call to calm me down, or a quick hug. Sex aside, he is the best goddamn therapist on the face of my planet and believe me, over the years Ive been to many and no one has ever helped me and succeeded in my growth like he has. We have worked together 5yrs. now and he hasnt failed me yet.I dont know. Even the sexual part of it is theraputic, and we never mix business with pleasure, in fact there has been times when ive tried and he has said "no, thats not why Im here" (if i was upset). For now, one day at a time. Believe me though, when this comes crashing down, I WILL definately need everyones support and a shoulder to cry on. I will always love him. I am so grateful that I have found this place, and all of you. It was no accident. Take care of yourself.Talk to you soon.
Jadah
Posted by kindgirl on August 3, 2004, at 21:00:20
In reply to Re:starlight, posted by Jadah on August 3, 2004, at 19:25:31
I worry about you Jadah. I just see this as a no win situation for you and that makes me sad. It is easy for an outsider to say "just end it" but it didn't "just start" so ending it is going to be tricky, and you are right, there is always the chance that he says one day, "I can't do this anymore," and you WILL be heartbroken. I am glad you are preparing yourself for that.
The thing that makes me so sad is the fact that you said he IS a good therapist and you have built this trust over the years, and you are right, starting over with someone new will be a lot of work, and you probably don't or won't have the energy for that. Perhaps you could look for someone who specializes in this area (are there such people?)...someone that has been a therapist for many years...
I don't think there is any way you CAN'T or WON'T feel like you are betraying him in some way. It is just going to feel that way because you interpret going to another therapist as a secret lover as well or something.
I don't know about you, Jadah, but one thing I am discovering for the first time in my life is to fight for me. For myself. Though I still struggle big time with self esteem, my therapist tells me every time I come that it is "good self care" and I am taking care of the wounded parts of me in taking her to therapy. I would ask you to think about how you can best take care of you. You are the main focus...not how he will react or how he will feel...this is why we go to therapy!!!! That is what makes your situation so sticky. You are in therapy to learn past history and I think you said that you have a past of abuse by men...and here is a man you trust and you are worried about him...always worried about him. What about you? Isn't Jadah worth taking care of? You are worth it, Jadah.
I back you 100 percent in whatever you do...just the little kid/wounded parts of me want you to be careful and look out for yourself. I don't want you getting devastated in all of this. It is good to keep coming here and venting, asking...just keep coming and keep writing. Even if something happens and you don't think you can go on...please let us know. You have a place where you belong here. No matter what.
Hugs,
KG
Posted by JenStar on August 4, 2004, at 1:54:51
In reply to Re:starlight, posted by Jadah on August 3, 2004, at 19:25:31
Jadah -
You said "we have worked together 5yrs. now and he hasnt failed me yet"
When I read your post, sadly, all I see *is* failure on his part: Failure to treat you with proper respect, failure to treat his wife & family with respect, failure to honor the oaths and legalities by which he is supposedly bound, and failure to encourage real growth in you.
If you were reading a case study about a beautiful, talented, empathetic woman who was in your situation with a therapist...what would you think? Would you think that this woman had made the best decision for herself and her future and her happiness? After 5 years of this, would you truly consider that this woman had made the right emotional and spiritual progress? Wouldn't you want this woman to find a man who could commit fully to her and make her a never-ending part of his life?
You deserve better. I hope you make a choice that brings the 'better' people in life to you.
JenStar
JenStar
Posted by Pfinstegg on August 4, 2004, at 7:13:53
In reply to Re:starlight, posted by Jadah on August 3, 2004, at 19:25:31
You mentioned that you are afraid that, if you went to a new therapist, you would become enmeshed in strong transference feelings once again, and wouldn't be able to "get past" them so as to do good work. In my experience, the strong feelings themselves are the "gold coin" of therapy. You would want to work *with* them, rather than consider them obstacles. You have mentioned other, natural feelings that you have: not wanting to betray your T. by moving to another, not wanting to give up the relationship itself, which has been very powerful and fulfiling for you in many ways.
But think what lies ahead. The relationship is going to end, even though it is very hard for either of you to do that. Here's one possible scenario: YOU end it, letting him know that it's the hardest thing you've ever done, that you found fulfilment and grew sexually, and as a person, during it. You could say that, as wonderful as it has been in so many ways, you want to grow into a healthy woman who will have her own fulfilling relationship in her own life, outside of therapy. If you wait for him to end it, you will feel awful, and may not be able to maintain the gains you have made in therapy so far. I think you will feel victimized and then thrown aside.
It was his professional responsibility to have never let this happen, but to have helped you grow through verbal-only interactions about your intense feelings for him. Hard as it will be, wouldn't it be better for your own well-being and health to be the one who finds the strength to end it? You have a lot of support available to you- another therapist, all of us here at Babble, TELL (the web organization I mentioned, which is reportedly tremendously supportive). No-one here wants to see you get rejected and abandonned, but, if you don't do something yourself, I am afraid that is what will happen. Why not bite the bullet and put an end to it yourself? I feel very confident that you'll be glad you did in the long run. We are all here for you, thinking of you, not at all judgemental, and we can empathize fully; many of us have said that, if our therapists did not maintain appropriate boundaries, we would have done what you did. I feel pretty sure I would have, when my feelings were running at their highest.
Posted by starlight on August 4, 2004, at 14:11:16
In reply to Re:starlight, posted by Jadah on August 3, 2004, at 19:25:31
Jadah,
You can see someone else without telling your current Pdoc. And you can discuss these issues without revealing his name. I think if you're expecting that it will come crashing down at some point, you should be prepared by having some sort of support mechanism and by feeling good about yourself and your choices. I think that feeling good about your choices is paramount. The decision to engage in this relationship was made by both of you, so I believe, despite what others say, that you can turn this into a positive healing experience. But you also have got to work on feeling confident that you can emerge from this (if it changes) a stronger, more experienced, more compassionate and understanding human being. You must be non judgemental towards yourself and him, so that you can avoid any guilt feelings that may arise. This is paramount.Believe in yourself and your ability to emerge victorious and be agressive in seeking some support, be it a good friend, a therapist - someone. Just in case.
I was a severe bulimic during my late teens and early twenties. We're talking severe - basically at times, going from place to place, eating and vomiting. It was pretty uncontrollable and I didn't think I'd ever be free from the compulsion to do that. It was so bad that I would usually head for the nearest all you can eat restaurant right after leaving my therapy session.
Then I embarked on a self improvement journey. I started taking classes at my community college and making straight A's, I started painting and studying classical voice. I started working out and in general feeling stronger and better about who I was as a person. Then one night, I had a dream, where my ex fiance walked into the bathroom and caught me vomiting and he looked at me and said "starlight, you've really got to stop this." And the next morning I woke up and the urge to do it was gone. Gone!!! And it's been gone ever since. But I firmly believe that the reason I was able to break through was because I felt better about myself as a person.
So, feel strong in who you are without him, try to eliminate your dependency on him. I know it will be hard, but it will help you in the long run.
starlight
Posted by pinkeye on August 5, 2004, at 13:43:43
In reply to Re:starlight, posted by Jadah on August 3, 2004, at 19:25:31
Hi Jadah,
Something else occurred to me. Actually your relationship with your current T has definitely helped you. You have said that yourself. So far so good. Let us not try to judge him. As far as you are concerned, it has helped you immensely and that is all that matters for us.
So where do we go from here? Now you are left feeling very insecure in the relationship. I don't know if you can muster enough courage and srength to call this relationship off. And I suspect that you don't have enough courage to go to another therapist now, since you think it will offend your current T and might end the relationship prematurely.So, why don't you instead focus of building a better self esteem now? You can continue your relationship with your T for now. And side by side, build a better healthy relationship with yourself. If you can't get another T, work on it yourself. Do something positive for yourself, like diverting your mind to other areas where you will feel good about yourself. Slowly slowly, you will have more courage to either end the relationshp or atleast escape without being completely devastated when the relationship ends.
Also it looks as if our T's are the only ones who will understand us, nurture us and loves us. But it is not so. If you look around, you will find plenty of men who are as good, as honest and as caring as your T. Life is a mirror that reflects our own assumptions about ourselves. If you become a self reliant person, you will definitely attract more men who are willing to be with you. I read a message yesterday, which said, Don't try to get good men, instead be a person where good men come to you.
And remember, you deserve someone who is fully committed to you, who can share his life fully with you. Who will be there by your side through your ups and downs, day and night. Who will be happy to have you as his wife, as you would be happy to have him as your husband.
Pinkeye.
Posted by Jai Narayan on August 5, 2004, at 17:07:29
In reply to Jadah, posted by Pfinstegg on August 4, 2004, at 7:13:53
that sounds like really good advice. I like how you described the 'Gold Coin' of therapy. I will take that with me. Thank you.
Posted by Jadah on August 22, 2004, at 20:48:23
In reply to Jadah, posted by Pfinstegg on August 4, 2004, at 7:13:53
I ended it on Saturday. Niether of us were happy about it but I knew it was coming soon. He felt so guilty about what he was doing to the marriage. For now, I have been having phone sessions with him, as it is too hard and risky for me to see him. To be together can easily mean a slip and a viscious on again off again cycle. Im very depressed. Dont know what Im going to do. Right now dont care much about anything. The rest of my life is in shambles to begin with (it seems) without him fully Im lost. Sighhhh.... I hope people have learned from my experience. Now that this affair is over, I can only wish that I am not pregnant with his child. Although, that might not necessarily be a bad thing, I already told him I would raise it myself if he chose not to be involved. He said that would bother him, he couldnt allow that. Who knows. Im sure it will work out. I'll be back eventually, I really need you all. Take care. Im movin' on.
Jadah
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