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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 0:30:26
In reply to Alexis,, posted by Susan47 on September 10, 2004, at 23:23:20
I'm so sorry you had a similar experience-I wonder sometimes if maybe it couldn't have been worse if it was drawn-out in that way. I can completely understand the intuitive feeling of needing to protect yourself from this person as well, and anything you did that made you feel that you weren't easy for him to work with was probably part of what protected you. It's hard to remember sometimes, I think, that their job isn't meant to be easy, and it's not our responsibility to purposefully hide traits or behaviors to make it easy on them. I don't think a client's transference can ever justify ambiguous and hurtful termination-it should always be regarded as a failure or limitation on the part of the T, even if sometimes they'd rather label and blame the client instead. I hope you've found a therapist who is better able to handle their feelings able to help you grow, I wish you the best :-).
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on September 11, 2004, at 10:18:51
In reply to My therapist terminated me by an email-what to do?, posted by alexis6 on September 10, 2004, at 21:08:38
Alexis, this is so shocking to me. No client ever deserves to be treated this way.
While I can understand (and admire) the fact that he acknowledged that he was unable to help you(regardless of the reason, at least he knew the relationship was not a good match), the fact he told you this over email is so heartless and seemingly unprofessional.
However, you can look at the bright side of this by knowing that you are out of this relationship. Had you continued with him, perhaps you would never have progressed (due to his ego beliving he could help you and you would have wasted valuable time and money) or perhaps if the attraction theory is correct, you may have ended up in a very unhealthy situation. So either way, you come out ahead. ANd it sounds like this new T may be a breath of fresh air for you.
But really, his behavior was very inappropriate and unprofessional. I am really mad for you!
Posted by Susan47 on September 11, 2004, at 12:14:19
In reply to Re: Alexis,, posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 0:30:26
said, therapy schmerapy. This therapist forced me to grow as a person; I know that's true. Actually, I forced myself and he basically watched. Really. The parts of me that are healthier now will never be wholly mine though, it feels like I owe him something forever. I care about that man to hugely; I think about his physical and emotional well-being constantly. Any thought that he's not doing well sends me into instant anxiety. But the thought that I can't contribute to his wellbeing really hurts me; his empathy and compassion were number one in my life for a long long time, (what's it like for people who go for years, I only saw him over a year or so, and not that often!) and now it's gone. I'll bet you know what I mean. He's become a ghost and I don't know how to live with ghosts.
Posted by terrics on September 11, 2004, at 12:52:58
In reply to My therapist terminated me by an email-what to do?, posted by alexis6 on September 10, 2004, at 21:08:38
I am so sorry that this trauma happened to you. He does not sound like a great guy. It isn't worth complaining to the 'wherever you complain' because he did not do anything illegal or unethical. It seems that he is just cold and indifferent. Try to see one of the other therapists asap [or a therapist of your choice]. It may help you get over this. feel better. terrics
Posted by rubenstein on September 11, 2004, at 14:00:55
In reply to Re: My therapist terminated me by an email-what to do? » alexis6, posted by terrics on September 11, 2004, at 12:52:58
I got so angry when I read your message. I am so sorry. Nobody deserves to be treated so coldly, certainly by a trained professionaly... I am also a college student and I know how hard it can be to find the care that you need. Good luck, I am thinking of you!!!
Rubenstein
Posted by Racer on September 11, 2004, at 14:03:14
In reply to Re: My therapist terminated me by an email-what to, posted by alexis6 on September 10, 2004, at 23:26:09
I'm so glad to read this update, Alexis, both because you did see another therapist, and because she said what I thought as soon as I read your first post!
Recently, I read something in a journal for psychiatrists. It was in an article about treating anorexics, and it said that many pdocs treating patients with both anorexia and a history of sexual abuse have such strong personal feelings towards the patient, they need to refer the patient elsewhere. While the article was focussed on actual treatment, that theme was a very strong secondary echo within it, with explicit mentions throughout of, "make sure you're not reacting to your own feelings here, and here, and here..."
And, having experienced something where the doctor didn't refer me away and probably should have, let me say that, no matter how badly he did it, you're lucky he had enough self-awareness to do so at all. I'm so sorry it hurts so much, because I can imagine quite well what you're probably going through, but I'm very glad you have another therapist, and that she's already showing herself to be a good fit for you.
Best luck, Alexis, and best hopes for the future.
Posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 16:52:23
In reply to Re: My therapist terminated me by an email-what to do? » alexis6, posted by terrics on September 11, 2004, at 12:52:58
> I am so sorry that this trauma happened to you. He does not sound like a great guy. It isn't worth complaining to the 'wherever you complain' because he did not do anything illegal or unethical. It seems that he is just cold and indifferent. Try to see one of the other therapists asap [or a therapist of your choice]. It may help you get over this. feel better. terrics
Hi Terrics, thanks for your support, I'm just starting to see a new T who is very compassionate :-). I am concerned, however, for the safety of his other clients-although it is his right to terminate or refer clients when necessary, he did not follow the procedure (discuss with client face-to-face, attempt to get informed consent, arrange for intermediary crisis support, transfer client records, etc) that he is ethically bound to by membership in his regulatory association. He works with many victims of severe trauma and abuse, and were he to repeat this with another client who is in a more vunerable position, he may cause great harm and possibly suicide. As someone who is considering making psychotherapy my career, I feel a moral responsibility to ensure that no harm comes to another of his clients because of his negligence. Best regards, Alexis
Posted by Susan47 on September 11, 2004, at 16:54:50
In reply to Re: My therapist terminated me by an email-what to » alexis6, posted by Racer on September 11, 2004, at 14:03:14
Posted by Susan47 on September 11, 2004, at 16:58:19
In reply to Re: My therapist terminated me by an email-what to, posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 16:52:23
My therapist didn't terminate me in a very professional manner either, I mean, over the phone, you know, and laying the blame squarely on my lap. "No, heh, your transference is too strong." How on earth can any therapist say something like that???? Jesus. You can block me now Dr. Bob.
Posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 17:21:22
In reply to Alexis!, posted by Susan47 on September 11, 2004, at 16:58:19
> My therapist didn't terminate me in a very professional manner either, I mean, over the phone, you know, and laying the blame squarely on my lap. "No, heh, your transference is too strong." How on earth can any therapist say something like that???? Jesus. You can block me now Dr. Bob.
Hi Susan, that's appalling and I am so sorry to hear that your T was so callous and irresponsible. It is entirely the responsibility of the therapist to address any transference on the part of the client, and certainly blaming the client for their completely natural feelings is unethical in the extreme. It can only serve to increase anxiety about future therapeutic relationships-and I think we all know how difficult therapy can be even in the best of times. Have you found someone better?
Cheers, Alexis
Posted by Susan47 on September 11, 2004, at 17:44:42
In reply to Re: Alexis!, posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 17:21:22
Posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 18:04:57
In reply to Nobody better right now thanks for asking:) (nm), posted by Susan47 on September 11, 2004, at 17:44:42
I'm sure you will find someone great when the time is right :-). Until then, I'm happy for you that you have the support of these boards, and I hope it brings you great comfort. Best, Alexis
Posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 18:26:11
In reply to Re: My therapist just terminated me-by email! » alexis6, posted by Dinah on September 10, 2004, at 21:09:47
> How perfectly dreadful!!! I'm not sure I'd *want* to go to anyone he recommended. But that's just me. I'm a stubborn soul. On the other hand, I'd probably be finding another therapist if only for them to request my files and possibly talk with him, and let me know what on earth happened. In my state, you can request your own files, but I don't know that I'd want to look at the files in this case without a professional being present.
>
> I'm truly sorry this happened to you. I wish that therapists had a better understanding of what termination means to a client. On the bright side you're clearly better off without this therapist, and the saddest thing is that he didn't terminate all his clients and allow them to find better therapists. That being said, perhaps the reasons had very little to do with you, and a lot to do with him. Maybe you stirred up something in him that he couldn't handle, but that had no negative implications about you.
>
> You might want to post on Psycho-Babble Psychology. There are many people there who I'm sure will empathize. I'll create a link for you, shall I?Thanks Dinah, I'm sorry I didn't realize that this board was for other types of posts. I appreciate your kind response, I'm trying pretty hard to look on this as a positive. Cheers, Alexis
Posted by Dinah on September 11, 2004, at 18:26:12
In reply to Re: My therapist just terminated me-by email!, posted by alexis6 on September 10, 2004, at 21:14:44
You're doing a much better job of looking on the positive side than I could under the circumstances. I'm glad you have a terrific boyfriend to help you through it.
Posted by KaraS on September 11, 2004, at 18:26:12
In reply to My therapist just terminated me-by email!, posted by alexis6 on September 10, 2004, at 20:47:34
> Hi there,
>
> I'm new to these boards, and am dying to get opinions/advice on something pretty traumatic that just happened to me. I'm a college student, and had started seeing a psychotherapist for abandonment issues, anxiety, depression and low self esteem...the usual stuff I guess, lol.
>
> I'd been seeing him for over three months, and things didn't seem to be going well (although I was trying to be optimistic). I found him distant and distracted, sort of uber-professional and clinical and I was having a difficult time being open with him. We had just begun CBT for anxiety, when (on the first day of my new term in school, no less) I received a brief email from him stating that he had assessed my progress, decided that he was not the right therapist for me, and had cancelled our session which was supposed to be two days after this. He left me with three names and phone numbers in case I "wished to continue working with another therapist". No more information at all.
>
> I was in complete shock-I had tried to open myself up to this man, and I actually had told him many, many things about past abuse and my feelings about myself that I had never told another person. He was well aware that feelings of rejection and abandonment were one of my main problems-and here I felt that even my own therapist was quite coldly shutting me out.
>
> I was very, very upset and called his cellphone and left, I'm embarrassed to say, a bit of a pathetic message crying and asking him why he was doing this to me and that I didn't think I could start all over with another therapist. He responded with another VERY chilly email, saying he was "sorry I had concerns about his previous email", but that he had spoken with a colleague who advised him that this was the right thing to do.
>
> I had never threatened him, contacted him excessively outside of therapy (I did send him a few emails with information I was uncomfortable revealing in person), missed payments or made sexual advances towards him. I was slightly non-compliant with some of the homework, mostly out of fear of sharing my thoughts, and I didn't want to do EMDR for trauma because it at the time sounded a bit spurious.
>
> I was a wreck all week, this just completely re-traumatized me in the worst way. I couldn't talk to people or attend school, I didn't eat for three days and just cried all the time. I was so upset that he wouldn't even acknowledge that this was painful for me or transition me to a new therapist-or even tell me the reason for this. If I did something, I need to know.
>
> Has anyone ever heard of this happening? He's been in practice for I think about 8 or 9 years, so he's not new to the field, and this just seems so negligent to me. I can't help but think that were I not fortunate enough to have a supportive boyfriend and know enough about psychological practices to understand how wrong this was, I might have tried to hurt myself or at least had my trust in the profession completely destroyed. His emails were so brief and quite cold, and gave me really no information on why I wasn't making progress, why these other therapists (all women, lol) may be better suited for me....If anyone has any advice (should I file a complaint with his regulatory board?) I'd appreciate it so much.
>
> Thanks, Alexis
>
>That is really terrible. I can understand why you would feel so traumatized. I agree with Dinah that this guy can't be a very good therapist if he dealt with you in this manner and therefore you aren't going to be missing much in the long-run. I wonder where he got his degree - the School of Hard Knocks? I also agree that there may be some issue involved here that he personally can't deal with or that he thinks a woman therapist could handle better. Perhaps he sensed that you were less than thrilled with him and he feared rejection or failure himself. Even so, he should have given you more information to that effect and he should have done much more to ensure a smooth transition for your sake. The "first do no harm" motto should apply here.
I don't know anything about how therapists are regulated but I do think that somehow he should be accountable for the way that he treated you. He had a right to terminate the professional relationship but he also had an obligation to explain it to you more and not leave you so traumatized.
I am sure you will find someone much better and you will be thankful that you're not seeing him anymore. In the meantime, it's unfortunately going to be painful.Lots of hugs,
Kara
Posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 18:26:13
In reply to Re: My therapist just terminated me-by email! » alexis6, posted by KaraS on September 10, 2004, at 21:36:36
> >
> >
>
> That is really terrible. I can understand why you would feel so traumatized. I agree with Dinah that this guy can't be a very good therapist if he dealt with you in this manner and therefore you aren't going to be missing much in the long-run. I wonder where he got his degree - the School of Hard Knocks? I also agree that there may be some issue involved here that he personally can't deal with or that he thinks a woman therapist could handle better. Perhaps he sensed that you were less than thrilled with him and he feared rejection or failure himself. Even so, he should have given you more information to that effect and he should have done much more to ensure a smooth transition for your sake. The "first do no harm" motto should apply here.
>
> I don't know anything about how therapists are regulated but I do think that somehow he should be accountable for the way that he treated you. He had a right to terminate the professional relationship but he also had an obligation to explain it to you more and not leave you so traumatized.
>
> I am sure you will find someone much better and you will be thankful that you're not seeing him anymore. In the meantime, it's unfortunately going to be painful.
>
> Lots of hugs,
> Kara
>
Thanks, Kara, I need all the hugs I can get right now :-). I do think I've found someone new, actually one of his recommendations who was kind enough to see the day after this happened. She's really cool and chic and warm, I felt instantly comfortable with her and having been able to talk with her about this is a big part of why I haven't completely gone insane. She told me as well that she was quite sure why he did this, but it's something I don't feel comfortable accepting (that he fell in love with me) and I guess I wonder what else it could be. Thanks again!
Posted by PhoenixGirl on September 11, 2004, at 18:26:14
In reply to Re: My therapist just terminated me-by email! » alexis6, posted by KaraS on September 10, 2004, at 21:36:36
(((Kara)))I have been through a similar situation before. There are good therapists and there are bad therapists out there. You ran into a bad one. I'm sorry that that happened to you, you did not deserve that. You deserve a competent therapist, a warm and caring person. They are out there, and I'm confident that you can get one!
Posted by KaraS on September 11, 2004, at 18:26:14
In reply to Re: My therapist just terminated me-by email!, posted by alexis6 on September 10, 2004, at 22:35:14
>
> > >
> > >
> >
> > That is really terrible. I can understand why you would feel so traumatized. I agree with Dinah that this guy can't be a very good therapist if he dealt with you in this manner and therefore you aren't going to be missing much in the long-run. I wonder where he got his degree - the School of Hard Knocks? I also agree that there may be some issue involved here that he personally can't deal with or that he thinks a woman therapist could handle better. Perhaps he sensed that you were less than thrilled with him and he feared rejection or failure himself. Even so, he should have given you more information to that effect and he should have done much more to ensure a smooth transition for your sake. The "first do no harm" motto should apply here.
> >
> > I don't know anything about how therapists are regulated but I do think that somehow he should be accountable for the way that he treated you. He had a right to terminate the professional relationship but he also had an obligation to explain it to you more and not leave you so traumatized.
> >
> > I am sure you will find someone much better and you will be thankful that you're not seeing him anymore. In the meantime, it's unfortunately going to be painful.
> >
> > Lots of hugs,
> > Kara
> >
> Thanks, Kara, I need all the hugs I can get right now :-). I do think I've found someone new, actually one of his recommendations who was kind enough to see the day after this happened. She's really cool and chic and warm, I felt instantly comfortable with her and having been able to talk with her about this is a big part of why I haven't completely gone insane. She told me as well that she was quite sure why he did this, but it's something I don't feel comfortable accepting (that he fell in love with me) and I guess I wonder what else it could be. Thanks again!
>
>
WOW, that's amazing. I wasn't expecting that one. Did your new therapist say that she was forming an educated guess or that he actually told her that was the reason? At any rate, I'm glad you've got someone really good now!
Posted by KaraS on September 11, 2004, at 18:26:15
In reply to Re: My therapist just terminated me-by email!, posted by PhoenixGirl on September 10, 2004, at 22:42:47
>
> (((Kara)))
>
> I have been through a similar situation before. There are good therapists and there are bad therapists out there. You ran into a bad one. I'm sorry that that happened to you, you did not deserve that. You deserve a competent therapist, a warm and caring person. They are out there, and I'm confident that you can get one!
Actually, it was Alexis6 who was terminated by her therapist but I'll take the hugs anyway. (I had a really bad day today myself.)-Kara
Posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 18:26:15
In reply to Re: My therapist just terminated me-by email! » PhoenixGirl, posted by KaraS on September 11, 2004, at 3:37:38
(Kara)))
> >
> >
> Actually, it was Alexis6 who was terminated by her therapist but I'll take the hugs anyway. (I had a really bad day today myself.)
>
> -KaraHi Kara, do you want to talk about it? I'll be around for another few minutes if you do. Best, Alexis
Posted by purplestarchild on September 11, 2004, at 18:26:16
In reply to My therapist just terminated me-by email!, posted by alexis6 on September 10, 2004, at 20:47:34
Hi,
I'm new to the board, but must say, being in the counseling field myself, I find your therapists behavior unethical and I would at least file a report with the board, letting them know what happened to you. There is no telling how many others this has happened to by this therapist and when you're a therapist, one main responsbility is to try to ensure that your own behavior does not make your client worse. Just my opinion though!
Good luck!
Leslie aka purplestarchild
> Hi there,
>
> I'm new to these boards, and am dying to get opinions/advice on something pretty traumatic that just happened to me. I'm a college student, and had started seeing a psychotherapist for abandonment issues, anxiety, depression and low self esteem...the usual stuff I guess, lol.
>
> I'd been seeing him for over three months, and things didn't seem to be going well (although I was trying to be optimistic). I found him distant and distracted, sort of uber-professional and clinical and I was having a difficult time being open with him. We had just begun CBT for anxiety, when (on the first day of my new term in school, no less) I received a brief email from him stating that he had assessed my progress, decided that he was not the right therapist for me, and had cancelled our session which was supposed to be two days after this. He left me with three names and phone numbers in case I "wished to continue working with another therapist". No more information at all.
>
> I was in complete shock-I had tried to open myself up to this man, and I actually had told him many, many things about past abuse and my feelings about myself that I had never told another person. He was well aware that feelings of rejection and abandonment were one of my main problems-and here I felt that even my own therapist was quite coldly shutting me out.
>
> I was very, very upset and called his cellphone and left, I'm embarrassed to say, a bit of a pathetic message crying and asking him why he was doing this to me and that I didn't think I could start all over with another therapist. He responded with another VERY chilly email, saying he was "sorry I had concerns about his previous email", but that he had spoken with a colleague who advised him that this was the right thing to do.
>
> I had never threatened him, contacted him excessively outside of therapy (I did send him a few emails with information I was uncomfortable revealing in person), missed payments or made sexual advances towards him. I was slightly non-compliant with some of the homework, mostly out of fear of sharing my thoughts, and I didn't want to do EMDR for trauma because it at the time sounded a bit spurious.
>
> I was a wreck all week, this just completely re-traumatized me in the worst way. I couldn't talk to people or attend school, I didn't eat for three days and just cried all the time. I was so upset that he wouldn't even acknowledge that this was painful for me or transition me to a new therapist-or even tell me the reason for this. If I did something, I need to know.
>
> Has anyone ever heard of this happening? He's been in practice for I think about 8 or 9 years, so he's not new to the field, and this just seems so negligent to me. I can't help but think that were I not fortunate enough to have a supportive boyfriend and know enough about psychological practices to understand how wrong this was, I might have tried to hurt myself or at least had my trust in the profession completely destroyed. His emails were so brief and quite cold, and gave me really no information on why I wasn't making progress, why these other therapists (all women, lol) may be better suited for me....If anyone has any advice (should I file a complaint with his regulatory board?) I'd appreciate it so much.
>
> Thanks, Alexis
>
>
Posted by KaraS on September 11, 2004, at 18:26:17
In reply to Re: My therapist just terminated me-by email!, posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 3:42:47
>
>
> (Kara)))
> > >
> > >
> > Actually, it was Alexis6 who was terminated by her therapist but I'll take the hugs anyway. (I had a really bad day today myself.)
> >
> > -Kara
>
> Hi Kara, do you want to talk about it? I'll be around for another few minutes if you do. Best, Alexis
That's very sweet of you, Alexis (especially considering that you have so much of your own stuff going on). I didn't get your message until this afternoon. I am worried about some things, including that I may get fired from my new job, but until I receive a certain phone call to clarify, I'm not going to say more yet.Thanks so much for asking!
Posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 18:26:18
In reply to Re: My therapist just terminated me-by email!, posted by purplestarchild on September 11, 2004, at 12:15:23
> Hi,
> I'm new to the board, but must say, being in the counseling field myself, I find your therapists behavior unethical and I would at least file a report with the board, letting them know what happened to you. There is no telling how many others this has happened to by this therapist and when you're a therapist, one main responsbility is to try to ensure that your own behavior does not make your client worse. Just my opinion though!
> Good luck!
> Leslie aka purplestarchild
>
>
>
>>
Hi, Leslie, thanks for your advice, I appreciate it. I don't want to file a report just out of spite or because I feel hurt, but I am concerned about his other clients and whether or not he may do this in the future to someone in a more vunerable position and with less support.I'm a psychology student as well as a psychotherapy client, and from a purely academic standpoint I find his behavior to be extremely risky, considering as well that he is mostly a trauma and abuse counselor and works with many clients who would be likely to self-harm in such a situation.
The lack of follow-up and the unencouraging "if you wish to continue therapy call one of these three people" tone of his emails seemed especially negligent-there was no attempt to directly put me in touch with another therapist or to ensure my safety if I was in crisis (not to mention transfer my files). As well none of the three women counselors he referred me to actually knew him, although two had met him very briefly, and none of them had been contacted by him even to see if they were accepting new clients (one wasn't, and the one I ended up seeing did me a huge favor by making time for me). I believe I will at least contact his professional counselors association-I don't know if I could live with myself knowing he may cause someone else to hurt themself in the future.
If you have time, Leslie, I was hoping you may be able to give me a brief rundown on the termination or referral procedures you find ethical to use? I'm sure they involve face-to-face contact, but as well do you directly set up the client with another therapist and transfer their records, etc? I know this is probably best for the Psych board, but I'm afraid I don't know how to move this over there :-).
Cheers, Alexis
Posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 18:26:18
In reply to Re: My therapist just terminated me-by email! » alexis6, posted by KaraS on September 11, 2004, at 16:23:38
Posted by thewrite1 on September 14, 2004, at 15:09:01
In reply to My therapist terminated me by an email-what to do?, posted by alexis6 on September 10, 2004, at 21:08:38
First of all, I can't imagine how painful this must be for you. That said, this is not your fault. The way he reacted seems rather sudden, though I don't think it was. It sounds to me like he was having difficulty working with you because of his own feelings. It's possible he deveopled feelings for you that he wasn't prepared to deal with or that he really did feel he couldn't help you. In any case, you are probably lucky that he let you go if he didn't fell capable of dealing with it. You need a T that can help you. I know it's hard, but keep trying. You'll find the T that's right for you.
This is the end of the thread.
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