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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by happyflower on April 9, 2005, at 23:28:49
In reply to Re: Psychological holding » happyflower, posted by Shortelise on April 9, 2005, at 22:38:15
> > Our T's can't hold us physically, and maybe their way of holding is better for this purpose.
>
> Does that help?
>
> ShortEI think I might get it. But does the T do anything special to get you to feel this? Or will this just take time? I normally just say the bad stuff directly to the point with no emotion, like a robot. I guess I am just numb. How does the T make you feel supported or is it just trust that will comes in time? I have only had 10 sessions so far and am new to therapy so I have much to learn. Thank you for responding.
Posted by daisym on April 10, 2005, at 0:58:44
In reply to Re: Psychological holding, posted by happyflower on April 9, 2005, at 23:28:49
You don't have to tell, of course, but why did you enter therapy? And, do you know the orientation of your therapist? Some CBT practitioners don't really "do" emotional holding.
You said you are just telling the bad stuff directly, no emotion. I think as you build trust, both in your therapist and in yourself, you will go back and *feel* the bad stuff, and these powerful emotions lend themselves to needing to be held. Again, if the kind of therapy you are doing is more problem solving or seems to be about not thinking bad thoughts, things may be different for you.
Therapy is full of surprises. My biggest problem when I started was getting whammied when I left with the emotions, I couldn't access them during sessions. Now my biggest problem seems to be closing up these feelings and emotions so I can leave. I need a big therapy band-aid for between times.
Posted by happyflower on April 10, 2005, at 5:41:38
In reply to Re: Psychological holding » happyflower, posted by daisym on April 10, 2005, at 0:58:44
hi Daisym!
He is a clinical psychologist and as far as what kind of therpy he does, I don't know. I entered therpy since I was suffering from PTSD.( I started a new thread yesterday about the basics on why I am in therpy. What is CBT? I know he sees kids and adults and specializes in PTSD. He does EMDR for over 10 years and talk therpy. I have only had 10 sessions so far. I do feel the emotions but I try not to get emotional in therapy because I don't completely trust him ( I don't trust very easily. I let it all out either before I get their or after the session.**** When I was being beaten by my mother, I learned not to cry or I would get it worse. ****I only feel safe with my DH to show those emotions right now. My T is aware of this. I guess if you read my latest post it might explain more. I know he he will let me express my feelings but right now this is all he is getting from me. Robo Happyflower! lol
Posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 11:04:11
In reply to Re: Psychological holding, posted by happyflower on April 9, 2005, at 23:28:49
I'm not sure if they *do* anything specifically or not. If they're taught the skill in therapy school or not. Maybe one of the therapists on the board could answer that.
It does have something to do with them. They have to be fully there, fully focussed on you, and with an open and receptive stance. If they're preoccupied or badgering you about something, it ain't gonna happen.
But maybe it's got something to do with us too. Maybe we have to be in the right frame of mind as much as they do. Maybe we need to be open and trusting and willing to seek them. I'm pretty sure it never happened during the first five years of my therapy. I may have gotten glimpses, but not the full thing.
And I *know* I'm now addicted to it. I can't imagine ever leaving it willingly, even though it's by no means a part of every session or even most sessions. As my therapist says (not about this of course) irregular and unpredictable rewards are the most effective sort.
I've talked to him about it in general before, but I have never talked to him about it while it was happening because it would be unthinkable to pull myself out of his metaphorical lap and analyze it.
Maybe I'll ask him about it next time I see him. I am relatively sure there will be no holding that time.
Also, for me it never had anything to do with disclosure at all. Some of the times I felt most held were silly little moments that had more to do with relationship than with me alone.
Posted by happyflower on April 10, 2005, at 11:13:28
In reply to Re: Psychological holding » happyflower, posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 11:04:11
Okay I think I get it now! lol I think he was trying this with me last session. He was totally focused on me, asking a ton of questions, nothing got too serious. Everytime I tried to change the focus off me to somethng else, he went right back to me. I even asked him why all the questions, and he said he wanted to get to know me better. It was weird kinda like a first date or an interview. It felt totally different than our other sessions. I liked it, maybe that why I am more willing to trust him more and try more EMDR treatments. DO you think that this could be what happened to me? :)
Posted by mair on April 10, 2005, at 11:25:48
In reply to Re: Psychological holding, posted by happyflower on April 10, 2005, at 11:13:28
I'm not sure I've felt "held" much, although I think the best way I could describe it is a feeling I've gotten when I've really allowed myself to feel the emotional support I'm getting from my T. I think she tries to show her care all the time but I can't/won't take it in much. On those occasions when I've felt totally but safely open and exposed to her, I guess I've felt that I was being held. for me it happens more frequently when I'm maybe more distraught than normal or talking about something that feels very painful to me.
I hope this helps.
mair
Posted by crushedout on April 10, 2005, at 14:57:19
In reply to Re: Psychological holding » happyflower, posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 11:04:11
I think maybe I've felt it just when we've laughed about something together. I'm still trying to figure out what it is. But this thread has been very thought-provoking for me.
Posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 15:16:50
In reply to Re: Psychological holding, posted by crushedout on April 10, 2005, at 14:57:19
My guess is that you haven't experienced it yet. It's like an orgasm. You might not know what it is you're expecting, but if you're not sure you've had one, chances are you haven't. And if you have you have absolutely no doubt.
It's something to look forward to though. :)
Posted by Tamar on April 10, 2005, at 17:10:30
In reply to Re: Psychological holding - Happyflower » crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 15:16:50
> My guess is that you haven't experienced it yet. It's like an orgasm. You might not know what it is you're expecting, but if you're not sure you've had one, chances are you haven't. And if you have you have absolutely no doubt.
>
> It's something to look forward to though. :)That made perfect sense! So I guess I haven't really experienced the holding thing like some other people have described, but I've been quite close to it at times.
I've been following this post and have been a bit perplexed (just like I was perplexed about why people made such a fuss about sex, before I understood what I'd been missing...).
Thanks for the insight.
Tamar
Posted by happyflower on April 10, 2005, at 17:16:50
In reply to Re: Psychological holding - Happyflower » crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 15:16:50
Hey, that good enough reason to pay 90 bucks! I am disapointed, I haven't been psychologically held! lol Wow, I am going to ask for that next session! lol
Posted by daisym on April 10, 2005, at 20:34:13
In reply to Re: Psychological holding - Happyflower » crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 15:16:50
I get what you meant but I work really hard to not compare my therapy to sex. I'm not scolding - it just surprised me how vehemently I started shaking my head. But you are right - you know it when it happens.
No apologies necesary, please. Just wanted to share my reaction.
:(
Posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 21:54:21
In reply to Ouch! *sigh* » Dinah, posted by daisym on April 10, 2005, at 20:34:13
Perhaps a sexual innuendo warning needs to be invented?
Posted by daisym on April 10, 2005, at 23:01:51
In reply to It didn't occur to me to put a trigger warning » daisym, posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 21:54:21
It was more about my reaction and it didn't go further. Maybe we should rate things: "R", "X" and "T" for trigger. :)
Oh, and "H" for happy. I have to remember that it isn't all bad.
Posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 23:11:55
In reply to Didn't trigger me so one not needed., posted by daisym on April 10, 2005, at 23:01:51
I suppose you should just assume I'm X rated.
I've never figured out why the sight or mention of a perfectly normal piece of human anatomy would rate an R while the casual assumption that the third date means sex can be broadcast at the family hour.
I'm an enormous prude in some ways. But you'd better just assume "X" anyway.
Posted by crushedout on April 11, 2005, at 5:28:29
In reply to Re: Psychological holding - Happyflower » crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 15:16:50
I actually think I have felt it, with my former T, a number of times. And that I've begun to feel it a little with this new T. But I could be wrong. I hope I am wrong. Because it didn't fix me and I want it to magically fix me. I guess what I mean by that is I want it to make me stop desperately longing to be a baby in a mommy's arms.
Posted by Dinah on April 11, 2005, at 9:25:36
In reply to Re: Psychological holding - Happyflower » Dinah, posted by crushedout on April 11, 2005, at 5:28:29
In my experience, it doesn't do that. It just makes me hungry for more of the same. Oh sure, you feel sated at first. But do we ever get a permanent supply of feeling held?
Posted by crushedout on April 11, 2005, at 11:10:10
In reply to Re: Psychological holding » crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 11, 2005, at 9:25:36
Rationally, I know that. But I want to *believe* that it would. I *feel* like it would. I want to be cured of this longing because it's unbearable sometimes.
Posted by Dinah on April 12, 2005, at 1:01:36
In reply to Re: Psychological holding » Dinah, posted by crushedout on April 11, 2005, at 11:10:10
Ok, I've been thinking about this.
To stretch the orgasm thing a bit further.
Maybe the goal isn't to fill us up with being held so that we won't need it anymore. Because that maybe isn't realistic. Maybe the need is a basic human need.
Maybe the goal is for us to learn what it feels like to be emotionally held. And then after it's happened enough times, we can start recognizing what it feels like to come close and how to help the process along. And then after enough more time, we can take the experience that was previously one that only happened in the therapy room, and learn to recreate it in other areas of our lives.
So that we can possibly learn how to emotionally hold others. And we can learn how to distinguish situations IRL where emotional holding is a possibility, and how to achieve that in different surroundings than what we're used to. And with different people. And learn to communicate with other people what we need to feel emotionally held.
All of which we learn by experiencing it in the privacy of the therapy room.
Posted by crushedout on April 12, 2005, at 5:46:49
In reply to Sexual innuendo warning. » crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 12, 2005, at 1:01:36
That makes *a lot* of sense Dinah. It's brilliant, really. I love it.The problem I'm still having is figuring out what it means to be emotionally held. Because I've had extremely good feelings in therapy (and outside of it, I might add) where I felt loved, cared for, paid attention to, etc., but I'm not sure I would have characterized them as feeling "held." There is also a sexual aspect to all of this for me and I can't tell where the feelings of well-being and the sexual feelings are separate or overlap.
I don't know if I'm making any sense, but I'm going to keep thinking about it.
Posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 10:47:11
In reply to Re: Sexual innuendo warning. » Dinah, posted by crushedout on April 12, 2005, at 5:46:49
And about a number of other topics on the board. I'll try to post about it a bit later, and I hope I don't forget in the meantime. I'll start a new thread and include everything.
Posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 10:49:19
In reply to I spoke to my therapist about this today » crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 10:47:11
This is the most curious I've ever seen him about the board. I hope he doesn't forget his promise not to peek.
Oh well, with his memory and his disdain for the internet, he'll likely forget by... well, probably he's already forgotten.
Posted by crushedout on April 16, 2005, at 16:49:15
In reply to Bad thing is..., posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 10:49:19
yeah, i don't think he'll break his promise. i can't wait to read your post.
Posted by crushedout on April 16, 2005, at 16:59:56
In reply to Bad thing is..., posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 10:49:19
what about what you said, do you think, piqued his curiosity so much?
Posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 17:18:20
In reply to Re: Bad thing is... » Dinah, posted by crushedout on April 16, 2005, at 16:59:56
Well, we spent a lot of the session discussing the board because I didn't want it to get deep. I failed (see below). But the specific thing was when I commented on how it was upsetting to clients that they cared more about their therapists than they cared about us, and how while it was upsetting to many people, I understood that it made therapy possible. Because a relationship couldn't focus entirely on us, as therapy does, if the therapist was too personally invested. Because what we said and did would then have an impact on them, and they couldn't be objective and nonjudgmeental. No more than they can be therapists to people they care about, can they care about their clients.
He first objected, saying that therapists do care about their clients, that those clients he doesn't care about soon pick up on it and quit going to see him. That he can only do good therapy with clients he cares about. But as we pursued the matter, he eventually made his way to saying that we're not like their spouses, mothers, fathers, children or friends in that we don't have a personal relationship with them, and when I pointed out that that was exactly what I was saying... Well, I think he said that there shouldn't be any thought on our parts about who cares more. That thinking that way wasn't useful. At which I said "SNORT. Yes, snort. Feelings are often not useful." He went into some CBT stuff, I answered with DiMasio (sp?).
Anyway, he couldn't believe we worried about things like that. And I said that apparently therapists have no idea what really goes on in therapy - only what they think goes on. And that he would learn more by reading this board than he would by going to the week long conference he was attending. And he thoughtfully agreed, which is what made me nervous. But he really is an internet snob. And I'd find it hard to believe he'd forget his promise. And if he ignores it, well, then he deserves to read everything I've ever written about him. Nose picking and all.
Posted by crushedout on April 16, 2005, at 17:26:12
In reply to Re: Bad thing is... » crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 17:18:20
you tell stories so well. :-)
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