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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by denise1966 on July 28, 2005, at 19:38:07
Hi,
Just wanted to vent some anger about psychiatrists in general. About the fact that half of them don't seem to know what they're doing (in the UK anyway) and don't seem to sense the urgency of finding something that actually works.
I'm tired of having to be nice and creep round them just to get what I want.
I've seen a number (about 8) psychiatrists in the UK, they range from arrogant, disinterested and dispassionate, or clueless.
The one I did see who I liked couldn't see me anymore because he changed his clients to old age ones, the one I saw after him on the NHS was a total waste of time. The last lady I've seen has been really nice and willing to pretty much let me try what I want but she seems to take forever to get back to me.
After seeing her for the first time she went off sick for 3 weeks, I guess she's entitled to and now she's supposed to be looking at getting me referred for ECT. The problem is that I'm seeing her privately and neither she or the ECT Clinic where I want to have the treatment is in my catchment area. She said she'd look into how she could get me referred, that was over three weeeks ago and she still hasn't come back to me!
Another gripe is that last time I saw her she forgot what I was actually taking, she seemed to think I was on Effexor and Remeron, when it was Seroxat and Remeron.
She also said she'd have to look into the washout period for Nardil and I already knew it was two weeks. It took her two weeks, when I rang her up just to tell me that the wash out period for Nardil was two weeks.
She seems to be one of the good ones, but my faith in her is gradually diminishing week by week!
I feel lately as though my life is just wasting away as I try and will each day on to get to the end of it!
Denise
Posted by john berk on July 28, 2005, at 19:38:07
In reply to So sick of these Psychiatrists., posted by denise1966 on July 26, 2005, at 15:19:29
HI DENISE!
SORRY TO HEAR OF YOUR DIFFUCULTIES WITH DOCTORS IN THE U.K., BUT BELEIVE ME IT ISN'T MUCH DIFFERENT HERE IN THE U.S. FROM MY EXPEIRENCE!! I SYMPATHIZE AND AGREE WITH YOU WHOLEHEARTEDLY!! I ONCE ARGUED WITH MY DOCTOR WHETHER I WAS ON PROZAC OR PAXIL, [I WON THAT ONE, I HAD BEEN ON PROZAC FOR 2 YEARS AT THE TIME, LOL]. IT WAS TOTALLY DISCOURAGING. I WAS ALSO PUT ON BUSPAR WHILE TAKING SERZONE, AND LUCKILY I FOUND OUT ON MY OWN THAT THESE DRUGS INTERACT SIGNIFICANTLY,[ SERZONE CAN RAISE BUSPAR LEVELS 10X ORIGINAL AMOUNT IN SOME INDIVIDUALS]
BECAUSE I ASKED HER, AND SHE SAID SHE WOULD CALL ME WITH AN ANSWER, AND NEGLECTED TO CALL!!
IT IS LIKE A GAME SOMETIMES, I DON'T GET IT!!
I HOPE YOU HAVE LUCK WITH GETTING ON THE RIGHT MED COMBO, JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW SOMEONE ELSE FEELS JUST AS YOU!! GOOD LUCK....JOHN
Posted by Phillipa on July 28, 2005, at 19:38:07
In reply to Re: So sick of these Psychiatrists. » denise1966, posted by john berk on July 26, 2005, at 17:09:59
Same in the US. I thought I had good one because she was old and had experience but I was wrong. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on July 28, 2005, at 19:38:07
In reply to Re: So sick of these Psychiatrists., posted by Phillipa on July 26, 2005, at 18:46:25
There are tons of bad pdocs out there. I can't believe the things that some of them say/do. And most all pdocs (good and bad) are overworked and hard to get in with.
There is hope out there though. I have had two wonderful pdocs. In fact, they are so kind and hard-working, that I like them even though neither has been able to help me get my depression under control! In fact, I am really worried what I will do when I move in a year or two.
Best,
EE
Posted by denise1966 on July 28, 2005, at 19:38:07
In reply to So sick of these Psychiatrists., posted by denise1966 on July 26, 2005, at 15:19:29
Hi,
Thanks to you all for your responses, it's nice to know I'm not alone with my fustration.
I was working as a project manager with IBM prior to being made redundant and sometimes really wish that these psychiatrists could treat me like a project, with deadlines that needed to be met and issues that needed to be resolved by a certain date. I know for sure that over the last four years, my depression has affected my work performance and contributed towards my being made redundant.
I don't think these psychiatrists and Doctors appreciate that when you're depressed a day can seem like a week, a week like a month and a month like a year.
Posted by Tom Twilight on July 28, 2005, at 19:38:07
In reply to Re: So sick of these Psychiatrists., posted by Emily Elizabeth on July 26, 2005, at 22:08:02
Hey Denise
I'm sorry to hear that your struggeling to find a decent psychiatrist
For some reason there are a lot of very ignorant and arrogant psychiatrists in the UK
I had a bad experience with my last NHS DocHave you considered possibly going to the US for treatment, I know its a big step but people have done it
I'm thinking about it myself at the momentMay I ask what the name of the female psychiatrist is?
I'm currently also on the look out for a good Pdoc in the UK
Posted by Cecilia on July 28, 2005, at 19:38:07
In reply to Re: So sick of these Psychiatrists., posted by Tom Twilight on July 27, 2005, at 15:25:28
Believe me, there are a lot of ignorant and arrogant pdocs in the U.S. too! Cecilia
Posted by Bill LL on July 28, 2005, at 19:39:00
In reply to Re: So sick of these Psychiatrists-Tom Twilight, posted by Cecilia on July 28, 2005, at 1:34:17
That's true, but it's also true of all specialists not just p-docs. I live in the US and I've seen a lot of docs of all specialties who are terrible. However, they are great at billing for expensive and unnessary tests.
Most specialists operate like they are in an assembly line. They want you to come in and have a lot of expensive tests, but they don't want to spend a lot of time with you.
Due to malpractice concerns, they generally are only willing to use the most conventional treatments or medications.
P-docs in the United States are the only major specialty that for the most part does not participate in insurance plans. All other specialties generally do participate.
The reason that p-docs don't participate is that they don't do expensive tests, so they can really only bill for their time. US insurance companies, as well as Medicare for the aged and disabled, do not pay a lot for time (ie for "visits"). Most specialists will accept the low payment for the visit since they can make a lot of money doing very profitable tests such as EKG's, X-rays, endoscopies, mamographies, CAT scans, etc.
There are also a lot of p-docs that accept insurance, but only for a small number of clinic patients in a hospital. But not for the majority of their patients.
It's very frustrating to deal with p-docs in the US. I know that from first hand experience. It's much easier and faster to get an appointment from a different specialist who can, and does, bill the heck out of your insurance plan.
> Believe me, there are a lot of ignorant and arrogant pdocs in the U.S. too! Cecilia
Posted by Tom Twilight on July 28, 2005, at 19:39:01
In reply to Re: So sick of these Psychiatrists-Tom Twilight, posted by Bill LL on July 28, 2005, at 11:39:42
I'm sure there are lots of bad Psychiatrists in the US, and indeed all over the world
The grass is always greener on the other side......
Whats frustrating about the UK system is that there's so little about psyciatrists online
Posted by cubic_me on July 30, 2005, at 16:14:00
In reply to Re: So sick of these Psychiatrists-Tom Twilight, posted by Tom Twilight on July 28, 2005, at 15:08:57
I'm in the UK too, and have gone through the NHS system. I saw 6 different pdocs in 2 years as they kept leaving, and there was only one that I remotely trusted. It's really disheartening, as I'm at medical school and want to specialise in psychiatry - but I sincerely hope I can do the best for my patients! I gave up in the end, and tapered off my (4th not working) antidepressant with the help of my GP. I still feel pretty bad, suicidal some days, but at least I'm not feeling bad and having side effects and worrying what my next appointment with the pdoc will be like.
I'm sure there are some good pdocs out there, but when you're depressed you haven't got the energy to chase them, and like the opening poster said, a a day seems like a week etc.
Posted by rabble_rouser on July 30, 2005, at 18:40:39
In reply to So sick of these Psychiatrists., posted by denise1966 on July 26, 2005, at 15:19:29
Hi Denise,
I know exactly where you are coming from too. My history of cr*p therapists stretches beck to when I was 16 ( I am 27 now), and I am STILL searching for the answer.
The fact is, in the UK the medical profession wants very much to slot you into a neat category, preferably so that they can give the required drug for that category. So you go to a GP, report how you feel. S/he thinks you tick enough boxes on his/her list and so bzzzzt off prints the prescription.
Maybe you get a referral to a psychologist. I have found the only quick way to get even an assessment is to self-harm, and even then you get interviewed by an arrogant man who can barely speak english who informs you that he can cure 15 years of pain in a week. The fact he won't listen to all of your problems, and concenrates only on his 'favourite' ones, doesnt instill confidence.
The only way I have found was to go private. I had a consultation with a Psychiatrist at £120 for 45 minutes. He then referred me to a CBT therapist at £70 for 50 minutes. He was very good, but I had to move away fromn the area and could not afford to see him every 2 weeks, which is what I needed.
The problem with depression is that it is very 'time' intensive. Even most major organic illnesses only require brief periods of hospitalisation - but mental illnesses and the treatment demand can linger for decades.
I remember I used to study kung fu. My teacher was showing us shiatsu, and said of chiropractors: "People awlays say 'Oh I have this great chirpractor - he's great, you should go and see him. I do, every month'. If they are so good, why do you have to keep going back? If they're that good, they would cure you!".
I often read stories about people that have been in therapy, and are now 'out the other side' who say 'I still have some bad days, but not like before'. Are we to accept there is no overall cure for depression? That any and all of us who have ever suffered must expect repeat performances throughout life?
Modern psychoanalysis is obsessed with the effect our parents and environments have on us, and how they leave us with weaknesses that can lead to depression. It takes many years to form these dysfunctional skill sets, and it will take a long time to add to them and experience the healing that the confidence of those skills brings. It os not just a matter of changing negative beliefs - at the end of the day, if you don't know how to talk to another person, or how to deal with conflict, no amount of 'believing in yourself' will help - you need to know what to DO. Life is about action. Life is about learning.
If we have known this for so long, why is it that most GP's first course of action is invariably to prescribe an anti-depressant? With stress and depression in employees accounting for huge losses in business every day, why has the health service not done more to understand the needs of those with mental illnesses?
I have posted before on my anger at the backward view that the UK has of mental illness and the stigma that is still very much attached to it. There seems to be a great lack of willingness to accept psychological science, except to throw labels at people, and the lack of availability of easily accessible counselling, therapy and skills acquisition reflects this. The phrase "you're just born like that" still hangs on the lips of many, and unfortunately the ones that need to convince people otherwise - those that are suffering - do not have the strength and resolve to do it.
Throughout life I have had many phobias. I have always fought to overcome them. I was scared of heights - so I jumped out of a plane - 3 times. I was scared of public speaking - so I took every opportunity to speak in front of groups of people. I joined a club of speakers to improve my skills. I couldnt swim and I was scared of the sea. So I taught myself breast stroke and front crawl in the local pool and then on holiday swam twenty minutes out to a nearby island. In short, I forced myself to overcome those things which were holding me back - and though I may say so myself, I believe that is a form of courage.
Why is it then, that suffering, as a male, with depression is viewed by most of the UK as simple, right-to-the-core weakness? A 'lack of backbone'? 'Being a pus*y'?
I was on a train the other day, and overheard two executives having a conversation about a colleague that had been singned off work with stress, then had returned on prozac. One exec said to the other "Yes, he returned to work and apprently feels much better, but we all know once you are on those funny pills its as good as over". "Mmmm yes" cooed the knowing reply.
Whoever you were, I only wish that you never need to recover from real mental illness - because you have defeated yourself before you even begin.
Rabble
Posted by cubic_me on July 31, 2005, at 13:17:13
In reply to Re: So sick of these Psychiatrists - LONG, posted by rabble_rouser on July 30, 2005, at 18:40:39
> Maybe you get a referral to a psychologist. I have found the only quick way to get even an assessment is to self-harm, and even then you get interviewed by an arrogant man who can barely speak english who informs you that he can cure 15 years of pain in a week. The fact he won't listen to all of your problems, and concenrates only on his 'favourite' ones, doesnt instill confidence.
I wonder whether you have seen the same people as me - it seems oh so familliar, especially the last 5 lines.
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