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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Susan47 on January 19, 2006, at 9:04:53
Something bad happened last night, in my books, and I had nightmares about phoning the ex-T. I mean, in my nightmare I never got through whenever I tried to dial, and I couldn't remember the number (which is IRL true lately, I see that as a positive) .. and then if I did get through there were suddenly these eyes looking at me, hating me, and they were usually the eyes of the guy downstairs (IRL in my apt. block) and it was HORRIBLE. Woke up feeling very depressed and.. doomed, I guess.
Posted by jammerlich on January 19, 2006, at 10:12:24
In reply to Help, nightmares, posted by Susan47 on January 19, 2006, at 9:04:53
(((((Susan)))))
I'm so sorry. I hate those kinds of nightmares that seem so real and leave you feeling profoundly unsettled for hours after you wake up. They are miserable.
And I'm sorry you can't get comfort from the one place you want it most. I know it's a lonely place to be.
I will be thinking of you today and wishing you peace and calm.
Posted by JenStar on January 19, 2006, at 11:30:57
In reply to Help, nightmares, posted by Susan47 on January 19, 2006, at 9:04:53
I'm sorry - nightmares are awful.
Your ex-T is still so much on your mind, Susan...it's creeping into your dreams!I wish you could get rid of him, mentally. Any chances of this happening for you, do you think?
JenStar
Posted by James K on January 19, 2006, at 16:57:39
In reply to Help, nightmares, posted by Susan47 on January 19, 2006, at 9:04:53
Alcoholic and addicts have use dreams. Basicaly very vivid dreams where we use and are intoxicated and wake up scared to death it was real. They tell us it is part of the process.
I wonder if this is like the same thing.
I hope you don't take it out on your neighbor (joke).
But I'm not joking when I give you my support and empathy.
James K
Posted by Susan47 on January 20, 2006, at 3:55:15
In reply to Re: Help, nightmares » Susan47, posted by JenStar on January 19, 2006, at 11:30:57
> I'm sorry - nightmares are awful.
> Your ex-T is still so much on your mind, Susan...it's creeping into your dreams!
>
> I wish you could get rid of him, mentally. Any chances of this happening for you, do you think?
>
> JenStar
Yes. One day at a time, lived from moment to moment. Thanks..
Posted by Susan47 on January 20, 2006, at 4:04:13
In reply to Re: Help, nightmares » Susan47, posted by James K on January 19, 2006, at 16:57:39
> Alcoholic and addicts have use dreams. Basicaly very vivid dreams where we use and are intoxicated and wake up scared to death it was real. They tell us it is part of the process.
James,
What's the process that you're referring to, what would that look like? Is it a process related to addiction, or recovery, or ...?In my dream, I remember every time I tried to dial, I was either unsuccessful in getting through or something bad would happen if I did, and there was always this incredible fear of public humiliation involved, I know that. And in my dream great trust was broken as well; there was a strong feeling of being laughed at and humiliated and scorned; I know that feeling really well from early early childhood. So I'm thinking, this T was probably some personification, what happened in early therapy with him must be retty much precisely correlated to something that happened in my early childhood; something that caused a nightmare at that time as well. And the residual feeling from the two nightmares is the same; one nightmare last night and another nightmare 42 years ago. This is really frustrating.
Posted by James K on January 20, 2006, at 15:43:22
In reply to Re: Help, nightmares » James K, posted by Susan47 on January 20, 2006, at 4:04:13
>They tell us it is part of the process.
> James,> What's the process that you're referring to, what would that look like? Is it a process related to addiction, or recovery, or ...?
---When they tell us it is part of the process, sometimes I don't think they know what it is. But what it means to me is - There is something I'm used to doing (alcohol). It is hurting me and I've decided to stop. My brain is used to doing it and still wants to do it on some level.
So at night my subconscious is both remembering, wishing, and shaming me all at the same time.
This is a huge assumption to compare to you, so don't please don't take offense. The phone call part of your therapist situation could be like an addicts relation to the ritual of the addiction. So your dream could be compared to a use dream which is something that most recovering addicts are instantly familiar with.
>
> In my dream, I remember every time I tried to dial, I was either unsuccessful in getting through or something bad would happen if I did, and there was always this incredible fear of public humiliation involved, I know that. And in my dream great trust was broken as well; there was a strong feeling of being laughed at and humiliated and scorned; I know that feeling really well from early early childhood. So I'm thinking, this T was probably some personification, what happened in early therapy with him must be retty much precisely correlated to something that happened in my early childhood; something that caused a nightmare at that time as well. And the residual feeling from the two nightmares is the same; one nightmare last night and another nightmare 42 years ago. This is really frustrating.
>--- I think all that part is very valid and probably a good analysis of exactly what is going on. I don't know if you know what happened in your past or you are assuming, but it makes sense. I think those feeling parts of the dream are slightly different than the dream itself (what I'm calling a use dream). I can relate very much to frustation dreams and humiliation dreams. Now I'm just talking about Me, not recovery talk. I believe healing can occur in dreams, and I also believe dreams can point us in the direction of the problem. Reacurring dreams are awful. like deja vu. I'm just rambling now, but I wanted to explain what I meant a little better.
I hope you find some peace and I think you should look at the dream, and if you have more, as a sign of where you are at right now, and I sincerly hope they don't become a problem in and of themselves.
James K
Posted by Susan47 on January 20, 2006, at 18:19:39
In reply to Re: Help, nightmares » Susan47, posted by James K on January 20, 2006, at 15:43:22
>
> This is a huge assumption to compare to you, so don't please don't take offense. The phone call part of your therapist situation could be like an addicts relation to the ritual of the addiction. So your dream could be compared to a use dream which is something that most recovering addicts are instantly familiar with.
What I'm understanding is that in a use dream the (recovering?) addict feels the intoxication of the drug/alcohol, but does (s)he also feel the negative effects? I mean, not physical but emotional. Does a recovering addict sometimes dream the effects go either way? I mean, not just intoxication, but other times a feeling of personal doom, of self-injury, a message that somehow you're horrible and bad? Because the phone dream and the crumbling house dream make me feel that way. And there's other dreams, other nights, when I dream good things related to the ex-T, the man himself. But the two things are very confusing. I can't merge them, mesh it so it works, and leaves me in peace.
Posted by James K on January 20, 2006, at 19:41:48
In reply to Re: Help, nightmares, posted by Susan47 on January 20, 2006, at 18:19:39
It can go either way . The last one I had, I was clearly intoxicated, running around town, meeting people having confusion, waking up on a strange couch, confrontations. All the things that might happen on a really crazy binge.
Sometimes someone wakes up and they might have been having a good time and as soon as they wake up - "oh no i've lost my sobriety!". This can be just the temporary confusion of waking, or a guilt that what their subconscious does is what they really want. I don't like blaming my subconscious.
Keep in mind comparing substance abuse is only partially useful to your situation. The concepts may be similar, but the lack of a concrete chemical changes things.
I actually think you can over time influence your dreams to a certain degree. If you plant you want to happen sometimes in the midst of dreaming you will remember. Unfortunately with Nightmares, all bets are off.
I hope some of this helps, I'm a little scatterbrained right now.
James K
Posted by Susan47 on January 20, 2006, at 23:30:54
In reply to Re: Help, nightmares, posted by James K on January 20, 2006, at 19:41:48
> Keep in mind comparing substance abuse is only partially useful to your situation. The concepts may be similar, but the lack of a concrete chemical changes things.
>
Not exactly, perhaps, in my case. Because my chemical is THC, and it's daily. Daily. I'm losing memory. It's affected my career. It's affected my personal life. (That, perhaps, for the better though, which is frustrating, that I believe this)> I actually think you can over time influence your dreams to a certain degree. If you plant you want to happen sometimes in the midst of dreaming you will remember. Unfortunately with Nightmares, all bets are off.
My dear James, you are brilliant and WHY oh why, haven't I done this before? YES!!! I begin tonight. Tonight, now, when I go to bed, as I relax into sleep, I will talk to myself and suggest many wonderful, good ways I can be. I will be. James, I love you. I don't know who you are, but you're wonderful too. Keep talking, I need you here, now, and if you're scatterbrained then I'm a complete fool and idiot (True, that, actually...)
> I hope some of this helps, I'm a little scatterbrained right now.
> James K
Thank you, lovely man. And I'm going to tell myself no more nightmares, no more bad feelings, no more bad dreams. And tomorrow will be a much better day, although today started off very, very badly. I think maybe part of feeling good and living without my drug is learning to protect myself from feeling badly about me. And if my life goes well, I won't have to kill myself. I won't have to live with humiliation either, and I won't have to brand my descendants with shame, if I'm not shamed.
I'm so scared, I'm so sick .. I physically hurt. The pain was gone, for a little while, when I felt I could defend myself, but now all props are gone, I see myself for who, for what, I am. I feel sad, and sick, and like I'm living in a nightmare, but the nightmare's real, I'm hated and despised, I think he feels SORRY for me, I think he feels SAD that this happened, I think he feels ANGRY that I took advantage of him, I think he feels DISILLUSIONED about this, about me, about who I turned out to be ... he doesn't see. I know he doesn't know, or understand, or want to be kind. I know who he is, I think.. I believe I created that in this lovely, kind person, someone who didn't mean to hurt me or poison the relationship .. but I spilled verbal abuse and created emotional poison by venting a lifetime of frustration and despair, and he listened silently, not demanding anything, simply, sexily, there. Just there, looking, approving, disapproving, kindly, frustrated, distant, befuddled ... and, sometimes, amused. Sometimes, softly emotional. Sometimes proud. I loved all of it, all the looks, all the words, everything. I loved being there, I loved looking at his face, his hands, his body ... I remember the shoes he wore. I was sick. Absolutely Sick with emotion, desire and despair wound together tightly, so tightly, never ever allowed to spring loose, everything had to be controlled, and I couldn't do it, I spilled over. It all came tumbling out. I completely f*cked up, I f*cked it up completely, and now I'll never be the same. Nothing will ever ever take away this sadness.
What simple words.
This is the end of the thread.
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