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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by DisposableDoll on May 18, 2006, at 23:41:36
Okay, here's the deal, I know I ask for a lot more than I give here and for that I apologize. I also know that I have yet to respond to a lot of stuff, but I went away for awhile because I've had things going on. Things that I both need to talk about, yet am afraid to speak of, so I'm going to stay quite for the moment if not longer, about that at least.
So, anyways, I have read all replies, I really do appreciate them, and they do help me, and I just wnated everyone to know that. I tried to reply to a reply to a previous post of mine and accidentally erased my reply. Great, right? *Sighs* Anyways, I wanted to post this to mention two things.
1. My T mentioned me coming to group sessions. I'm assuming this is to be in conjuction with my reg. appointments. I am supposed to go tomorrow at 2 for the first time. Everyone in this area knows everyone else and I sometimes get nervous with other people so I'm not sure how that will go. Also, I may not even go tomorrow, since I have other things that will take priority if they come up. Okay, besides that I wanted to say.....
2. Someone on here asked if I'd ever had someone suggest that I may have BPD (borderline personality disorder, NOT Bipolar). No, I haven't, except for some quizzes I did online for fun. However, since you have mentioned this, I took a trivia quiz and some of the things that were symptoms of BPD struck me as familiar. I've been doing some research and here's the thing-
The quiz mentioned these symptoms-
1. a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation - in a way, yes, I do do this.
2. frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment - I have abandonment issues and I tend to be paranoid, so sometimes my fears are over imagined threats of abandonment
3. identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self - Not so sure about this one. Need elaboration
4. recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior - yes, I do this somewhat. I sometimes self harm. I have suicidal thoughts and I have threatened it repetitively.
Okay so I started to look around since the trivia quiz was about several disorders and didn't focus on BPD. On one site, I found these symptoms-
1. Affect
chronic/major depression - chronic, yes. Actually I was told I may have some disorder that I think was called Dystimia or something and meant ongoing depression. And as for major, it's not usually major, but I think it has been.helplessness - yes, I feel this way somewhat
hopelessness - sometimes, but other times I get oddly optimisticworthlessness - yeah, in a way I do feel worthless, but I think that is ebcause I HONESTLY am
guilt - yes, when I'm capable of feeling and caring
anger (including frequent expressions of anger) - yeah, I have an anger problem
anxiety - yes
loneliness - OH, BUT YESSSSSS Though back when I had him, I didn't feel this way.
boredom - somewhat
emptiness - yes, often
2. Cognition
odd thinking - define odd
unusual perceptions - somewhat I suppose, but I need elaboration, once again
nondelusional paranoia - yes. I am somewhat paranoid.
quasipsychosis - er, explain
3. Impulse action patterns
substance abuse/dependence - Abuse, yes, dependance, no unless you count caffeine.
sexual deviance - define deviance
manipulative suicide gestures - yes, I think to some degree I have, though I have sincerely considered suicide, as well
other impulsive behaviors - yes
4. Interpersonal relationships
intolerance of aloneness - to some degree
abandonment, engulfment, annihilation fears - yes, oh, but yes
counterdependency - counter dependency? I know what dependency is, but what is counterdependency?
stormy relationships - somewhat. Depends on what relationship, to a degree
manipulativeness - somewhat. I was really manipulative and domineering as a child. WHEW!
dependency - somewhat
devaluation - sometimes
masochism/sadism - somewhat, but hey that can be fun in the sack (sorry if this upsets anyone- Really)
demandingness- often in a way, I suppose
entitlement - Not really, but then again if you feel mostly worthless and guilty as described above, why feel entitled to anything?
Later, I found this-1. frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. (not including suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5) - yes
2. a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation. - yes, somewhat3. identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self. - somewhat
4. impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating; [not including] suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5). - yes
5. recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior - yes
6. affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days) - yes, sometimes, but sometimes it lasts shorter or longer
7. chronic feelings of emptiness. - yes, somewhat
8. inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights). - yes, somewhat....though some would say yes, a lot
9. transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.- somewhat
However, I often feel somewhat numb, so I am not sure I am passionate enough to have BPD or that I am black and white enough. For a long time I think I did somewhat see people in more black and white terms, not compeltely, but quite a bit at times, though now I have managed to be more accepting of people's dark sides and not quite so snappy about such things. I mean, I won't necessarily like certain things about them, but I can avoid letting that make me think they are completely bad. Do I sound like I have BPD or not? I don't see my shrink for a one on one session for awhile. I will bring it up then if I can remember to. Thanks.
DisposableDoll
Posted by DisposableDoll on May 19, 2006, at 0:01:17
In reply to Suggested Group Therapy and Could I have BPD?, posted by DisposableDoll on May 18, 2006, at 23:41:36
Sorry, but I just found this other site, http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/9339/9566.html-
"Borderline personality disorder is characterized by poor self-image, great difficulty coping with loneliness and feeling empty." Yes on the last two, but is poor self image, poor understanding of self or poor self esteem?
"People with this disorder have unstable relationships, highly reactive and intense moods, and impulsive behavior." Okay, unstable yes to a degree, and sometimes I can be ractive or overly dramatic, but a lot of times i just feel dull and numb. Sometimes i am impulsive, but I tend to be more of a type of person who knows darn well what she is doing and the risks, but does it anyways....a bit on the reckless side.
"They are more likely to attempt or commit suicide. Sometimes they harm themselves (for example, cutting or burning) as a form of self-punishment or to combat a numb feeling. At those times, suicide is not the goal." Sometimes I hurt myself for self punishment, sometimes to combat feeling numb, sometimes because I am angry or distressed and need to vent it somewhere and sometimes for other reasons I'd rather not say right now.
"When stressed, people with borderline personality disorder may develop psychoticlike symptoms. They experience a distortion of perception or belief rather than a distinct break with reality. Especially in close relationships, they tend to misinterpret or amplify what other people feel about them. For example, they may assume persecutory or hateful feelings when a friend or family member may be only mildly annoyed or angry." Yes, I do do this sometimes.
Now it said it was sometimes suggested that BPD was caused by "an abusive or neglectful childhood." I don't think it was abusive and I don't even think it was really that neglectful. Especially where my mother's side of the family was concerned.
It later says, "People with borderline personality disorder have a deep fear of abandonment." As I have said YES.
"They compete for social acceptance, are terrified of rejection and often feel lonely even in the context of an intimate relationship." Um, most of society can deal with me whether they like me or not, but I am terrified of rejection when it comes to those I love and I sometimes feel lonley when surrounded by people, but when I was dating my last boyfriend, I don't think I was lonley when we were dating.
"Therefore, it is more difficult for them to manage the normal ups and downs of a romantic partnership." I suck at relationships. I ruin all of them and I have ruined my life in general, inmany ways.
"Impulsive, self-destructive behavior may be an attempt to ward off rising anxiety related to the fear of being left alone." Yeah, I think sometimes I am impulsive and take risks so that I can get my mind off of my lonliness and fears that it won't be fixed. Other times I don't know why I am self destructive.
"The flip side of the fear is the hope that a relationship will be completely soothing. These people may idealize a family member, romantic partner or friend, then become enraged when an inevitable disappointment occurs. They might hold that person responsible for the pain they feel and devalue the relationship." Maybe. I dunno. I don't want to think about this right now. I'm tired.
"It is quite common for people with borderline personality disorder to also have a mood disorder, eating disorder or substance abuse problem. The person may turn to alcohol or drugs to escape from painful, uncontrollable emotions."
"Three times as many women as men are diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. It occurs in about 2% of the population in the United States." Well, I'm female. lol.
"It is normal to feel vulnerable, so most people have experienced some of the symptoms on this list. The diagnosis of borderline personality disorder is made only when someone has had many of these symptoms to a severe degree, over a long period." I don't know if I have it or not. Wouldn't my T have suggested it or is it possible I haven't mentioned enough of these symptoms in therapy? These symptoms are mostly repeats of the earlier mentioned ones-
"Unstable, intense and difficult relationships" Somewhat, yes if not more than somewhat and it's my fault
"Poor self-image" Again, does this mean low self esteem or bad understanding of self?
"Self-destructive, impulsive behavior" somewhat
"Suicidal threats or attempts" yes
"Self-mutilation" yep
"Extreme mood reactions, including intense,
inappropriate anger" Anger, yes, and sometimes other stuff, but normally I am more dull and dead"Feeling empty or alone" yes
"Fear of abandonment" yes
"Short-lived psychoticlike distortions of perception or belief, especially under stress" I think so and YES especially when under stress
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 19, 2006, at 5:55:47
In reply to Suggested Group Therapy and Could I have BPD?, posted by DisposableDoll on May 18, 2006, at 23:41:36
Just two quick thoughts:
1. You can have a mild or moderate form. You don't have to be extreme.
2. Accepting the concept is only useful, IMHO, in so far as it suggests treatments or coping strategies.Borderline disorder, as I've read about, tends to be self-limiting. The symptoms often wane as the individual matures. (I know there are exceptions, and I somehow expect to hear about them.)
I couldn't sleep, and I'm not sharp, but there you have it.
Lar
Posted by wishingstar on May 19, 2006, at 9:24:09
In reply to Suggested Group Therapy and Could I have BPD?, posted by DisposableDoll on May 18, 2006, at 23:41:36
BPD is a really difficult label to figure out. I agree with what Larry said... it's not really all that useful aside from insurance forms and treatment plans. But that isnt what makes it so difficult, for me anyway. It's that, in my opinion, most of the typical BPD characteristics are things most everyone does from time to time -acting in manipulative ways, seeing things as black and white, mood swings... all that. Where's the line? There are some people who are very obviously BPD, but for those people who might be more on the line or have a milder case, I think the diagnosis can hurt more than it can help. That's just my opinion, so I hope no one takes offense or anything like that.
Aside from that little rant (sorry), maybe ask your T what he/she thinks about it. It's really difficult to say something like that without knowing a person fairly well and seeing them in several aspects of their lives, you know? But I hope you're not worrying too much.
Posted by fallsfall on May 19, 2006, at 12:31:04
In reply to Suggested Group Therapy and Could I have BPD?, posted by DisposableDoll on May 18, 2006, at 23:41:36
I was diagnosed with BPD at one time (though I don't think I fit it now). The best information I found on it was Linehan's book ("Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy for Borderline Personality Disorder", not the "Skills Training Manual" (though the Skills training manual is valuable for explaining skill that can be helpful). Her book, in the first 4 or 5 chapters really resonated with me - finally someone understood me.
That said, I would be very cautious about diagnosing yourself. Most of us can read any list of symptoms and find that many of them "apply". But each of those symptoms are on a continuum - so all of us DO have some amount of almost every symptom. The issue for diagnosis is to what degree to the symptoms occur, and how do they affect your daily functioning.
I have successfully spent much of my time in the last 10 years being the "perfect" depressed patient. I have read all the books, memorized all of the symptoms, know exactly how to talk and how to feel so that they all will fit. In fact, I'm feeling a bit drab these days and just today my therapist warned me not to talk myself back into the depth of depression I've had in the past. What is important is not what you call it, but what you do about it.
So, do ask your therapist, but try not to spend too much time trying to diagnose yourself. At least doing that wasn't very good for me.
Posted by cindy lou on May 28, 2006, at 9:02:30
In reply to Suggested Group Therapy and Could I have BPD?, posted by DisposableDoll on May 18, 2006, at 23:41:36
Hi DD,
I don't have any answers for you, but I am a fellow "possible BPD" candidate -- my therapist suggested I might have BPD, then my psychiatrist agreed since I do not respond well to medications (or if they do help, like SSRIs, they only last a short time). After seeing me for several more months, my therapist took back his diagosis of BPD. It is definitely a frustrating dx.My one question for you ... I haven't visited this board for several months, so I apologize if you have already given this information before ... have you been on meds, or are you currently on meds? Do they help you? Do you have any adverse or strange reactions to meds? I ask this because the one reason my pdoc thought I might have BPD is the fact that meds don't really work for me. (That doesn't explain my adverse/opposite reactions to many meds, however. I am currently looking for a new pdoc who isn't so condescending.)
Take care, and keep us posted on what you find out ... I know how frustrating this can be.
cindy
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