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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on December 31, 2006, at 15:43:58
We talked about it today, or rather we talked about talking about it.
I talked about how hard it was for me to talk about a couple of topics.
One is some aspects of sex. Like when I'm hypersexual, it definitely needs to be discussed, and it needs to be assessed, and that requires some delicate discussions. But since it's so *current*, it's hard to talk about.
And the other is the dreaded body image. I told him that I was reluctant to bring it up, because I was afraid he'd feel societal convention to say no, no, you aren't really that ugly. And that's not what I need. Or that he would say, yes, ok you're ugly, and what are you going to do about it. And I didn't think that would be overly helpful. And also, I didn't want him to even think about my having a body, and don't want to draw attention to the fact by talking about it.
He said that he'd try not to agree or disagree or notice my body, and that if he forgot, I should remind him.
He really made it rather easy for me, and stayed light and good humored, just the way I needed him to be. And he questioned me with the same attitude, which made it easy for me to answer, as long as I kept my eyes averted.
Why is it that sometimes he's just so *good* at what he does? At knowing how to handle me just the right way? At hitting just the right note?
And why isn't he always that way?
Posted by Poet on December 31, 2006, at 17:40:16
In reply to That body image issue again, posted by Dinah on December 31, 2006, at 15:43:58
Hi Dinah,
I think you asked your T the therapy equivilent of *does my butt look fat in this outfit* and he passed. He made it easy for you, and even though he doesn't always pass the test, this time he did with flying colors. As you said, he hit the right note.
I don't think anyone, therapists included, can hit the right note each time in a relationship, that your T can do it some of the time is a positive. That you were okay with a hard subject is a real positive.
Needless to say I have major body issues. My T asys nothing, just sort of smiles when I go into a fat ugly Poet rant. Which is actually okay with me, because I really don't want her to agree or disagree, like you feel with your T.
Wow, your T saw you on a Sunday, New Year's Eve, yet. I'm impressed.
Poet
Posted by annierose on December 31, 2006, at 18:14:34
In reply to That body image issue again, posted by Dinah on December 31, 2006, at 15:43:58
Bopy image is a hard subject! I'm glad your t was able to hit the right note. It's a great way to end the year and hopefully begin the new one.
Accepting our bodies how they are - well - I think it's hard for a lot of people. For me, yoga has helped.
Posted by Dinah on December 31, 2006, at 19:13:06
In reply to Re: That body image issue again » Dinah, posted by Poet on December 31, 2006, at 17:40:16
> Hi Dinah,
>
> I think you asked your T the therapy equivilent of *does my butt look fat in this outfit* and he passed. He made it easy for you, and even though he doesn't always pass the test, this time he did with flying colors. As you said, he hit the right note.
>
> I don't think anyone, therapists included, can hit the right note each time in a relationship, that your T can do it some of the time is a positive. That you were okay with a hard subject is a real positive.That's the truth. Of course, I was so hyper today that he could hardly squeeze a word in, so maybe that's why I'm pleased with him. (grin)
It really is a hard subject though. And I'm glad he took it seriously enough to be willing to negotiate the path we'll take.
>
> Needless to say I have major body issues. My T asys nothing, just sort of smiles when I go into a fat ugly Poet rant. Which is actually okay with me, because I really don't want her to agree or disagree, like you feel with your T.In some ways, do you think it's easier with a female? I can see how in some ways it might be hard, because you'd be coming up with their own ingrained body issues. But in some ways it must be easier. Because I really really don't want my therapist to notice I have a body, and that probably isn't as much an issue with a female therapist.
Not that I have to worry about anyone being physically attracted to this body, but still...
>
> Wow, your T saw you on a Sunday, New Year's Eve, yet. I'm impressed.
>
> Poet
>Yeah, I'm feeling like a "Jessica" right now. He saw me Sunday, Christmas Eve, and Sunday, New Years Eve, because he knows how difficult breaks are for me and he knew I was having problems at the time. He swore it was no real trouble since he was stuck in town anyway. But I don't think he saw anyone else.
Not even the fact that he almost forgot me today makes me feel less special about it. :)
Posted by Dinah on December 31, 2006, at 19:19:32
In reply to Re: That body image issue again, posted by annierose on December 31, 2006, at 18:14:34
I could really use a good year, so I'll take any good omens I can find.
I think it's great that yoga can do that for you! We may renew our membership in a health club this summer, and I've always wanted to look into that. I'm a bit nervous about being in a group of women though.
I haven't done group exercise since I was 120 pounds and convinced I was ginormous at anything more than 117. Boy, those were the days. Aerobics to early eighties music. :) I still can't hear "Islands in the Stream" without wanting to reach my toes.
I'd rather do yoga with tapes at home, but honestly I can't find a patch of floor big enough to do it in.
I'm going to be painting my house the next few months, and I'm hoping that qualifies as exercise.
So yoga is helping you accept yourself as you are, or is it helping you change how you look? I don't think anything will help me accept myself as I am because I look like my mother, and that's just intolerable. Even if she looked like Morgan Fairchild (and she doesn't) that would be intolerable.
Posted by Daisym on December 31, 2006, at 23:21:01
In reply to That body image issue again, posted by Dinah on December 31, 2006, at 15:43:58
I think there are subjects our therapists are "good" at and others perhaps less so. Or maybe we are less good at some, which makes their sensitive responses so important...anyway, I'm glad he was on his best behavior today for you!
The body image subject is truly the hardest one for me too. I barely mention it, though my resolution is to begin to think about starting to get in shape, and diet. I agree, I want him to not notice my body, at least not in its present shape.
Do you think it would be easier with a woman? I think I'd just be competitive or jealous if her body was "better" than mine. I HATE this topic. I tell myself that I have a lot of other things going for me - but it keeps coming back to I'm fat and I'm depressed. Not a good combination.
*sigh*
Posted by mair on December 31, 2006, at 23:37:10
In reply to Re: That body image issue again » Dinah, posted by Daisym on December 31, 2006, at 23:21:01
I don't think it's any easier with a female therapist. And it probably is tough to have someone you're comparing yourself to. I knew my T enjoyed snowboarding, but she never struck me as an exercise fanatic. Then I found out she competed in her first triathalon this summer. It just made me feel like more of a slug.
Posted by Dinah on December 31, 2006, at 23:47:08
In reply to Re: That body image issue again, posted by mair on December 31, 2006, at 23:37:10
Yeah, I think you guys are right. I had more trouble, not less, talking with T3 about it. I felt like she was judging me more. Or at least more openly.
It helps a bit and hurts a bit that my therapist is not thin himself. It helps in that I feel less self conscious, but it hurts in that I don't want to say anything bad about me that he might see as criticism of him.
I probably shouldn't worry about that. He seems quite comfortable with himself.
Posted by annierose on January 1, 2007, at 0:09:45
In reply to Re: That body image issue again » annierose, posted by Dinah on December 31, 2006, at 19:19:32
I think yoga helps you accept yourself as you are - curves and all. And it has done wonders for my 13 year old girl - and let's face it - that's a tough age for her with an ever changing body (and personality - but that's a different topic).
I'm new to yoga (just one year) and I think (for me) it is SO SO SO different going to a yoga center vs. tapes at home. The teachers are trained and speak a language that you will understand (since you are already introspective and intuned to your thoughts). The center I go to also isn't as concerned with form - just trying - listening to your body, etc. I could go on and on, but it's been life changing for me in ways I can't explain.
I agree with the others - speaking about our bodies is hard whether male or female T. Since my therapist is in excellent shape (like a size 0 - 2) I do feel like she is judging me sometimes, even though she probably isn't. Once I was talking about buying a bathing suit and I had my kids with me. She said, "No one likes buying a bathing suit, let alone seeing themself in one" (something like that) and it made me smile that she felt that way even though the woman has zero body fat.
But having said that, I think it's easier discussing my body image issues with her because its obvious her physical fitness is important to her.
Anyway, all this to say, talking about a difficult subject is a great way to start your therapy sessions in 2007. I hope I can take your lead.
Posted by madeline on January 1, 2007, at 4:54:38
In reply to That body image issue again, posted by Dinah on December 31, 2006, at 15:43:58
I don't know and lord knows that I am not miss "hey look how fabulous my body is", but your body gave you a wonderful son.
It nurtured him while he was at his most vulnerable and let him go when he was ready - with your help - to face the world.
To me, that's a miracle. Your body is capable of miracles.
I'm really getting to the point where I appreciate my body, not necessarily for what it looks like, but for what it does.
I'm not as young as I used to be and boy can I tell it too, but for all it's faults, I know that me and my body are in this together.
Also, I'm not being glib here, but I had this dog when I was a kid. Quite frankly, it was the ugliest dog I had ever known - it stank, was a tidbit aggressive, and seemed to be especially susceptible to getting mange. But I loved that dog with all my heart.
Wherever I went, he was with me and would wait for the schoolbus and run to me when I got off. I actually got teased by my classmates because my dog was far and away the ugliest one in town.
But he was my dog, it didn't really matter what he looked like.
Likewise, this is my body warts and all, I can certainly extend the same love to it.
Maddie
Posted by Reggie BoStar on January 1, 2007, at 5:41:07
In reply to That body image issue again, posted by Dinah on December 31, 2006, at 15:43:58
Hi Dinah,
Wow, this is a tough topic.I have image problems like that too, though over the years it's become more of an issue of not wanting to be noticed in public. I used to worry about being attractive to women, but that went away when nothing happened for 20 years. Now I just don't want to be stared or laughed at for being a lardo.
That's right, I'm youe standard male fatboy. Although, I think I got here not so much by overeating as by being lethargic most of the time from depression. That and the associated meds have made my energy level 0 - and this can pack on the pounds, even if you don't eat much. Age helps too.
Needless to day, there are media images for men as well, and someone like me is going to wind up on the losing end compared to some of those guys. Not only that, but we have the women's media image to contend with too, because these are always the types of women that we're programmed to be attracted to. Obese men, on the other hand, not only do not "get that girl", they're also a dumping ground for all sorts of other negative stereotypes. Usually it's something obvious, like being the comic foil, or the disgusting overeater at the beginning of a horror flick who's always the first one to go.
Sometimes it's subtle. Roger Ebert was always fond of reporting this in his movie reviews, evidently because it pushed his buttons too. He used to say things like "in any scene in a suspense movie where a number of men are talking around a table, the overweight one is always lying." I started paying more attention after that, and sure enough, in all kinds of movies even the secondary characters were doing negative things if they were fat. Amazing.
Sorry to rant. I had to pipe in on this topic because I took a shower about an hour ago and took the usual pains not to look at myself in the mirror. That's how sold I am. Moley, I won't even go to a public beach. It controls my life to the point where I can't have the kind of fun that a lot of people have.
Appreciate him for being supportive at least some of the time, and being there for you when you're dealing with episodes of hypersexuality. Trust me, it's better than nothing, which is what some of us have if we're so imaged down we can't even go out in crowds without trying to keep out of sight.
Sorry for that rant, too. Obviously I need to get off my butt and do something, too.
That sounded easy, didn't it?
Right.
Best wishes to all for the New Year,
Reggie BoStar
Posted by Dinah on January 1, 2007, at 9:43:32
In reply to Re: That body image issue again » Dinah, posted by Reggie BoStar on January 1, 2007, at 5:41:07
I'm sorry. It probably sounded like I thought that men didn't go through the same stuff as women, and I know they do. The "he" I was referring to was my therapist, and he does appear to have an extraordinary ability to accept himself exactly as he is, no matter what the topic.
My husband is thin, now, but he's got major issues from being overweight as a boy and young man. When we met, he wasn't thin and I was, and now he's thin, and I'm not. And I know both of us felt about the same way about being not thin.
The funny thing is that I fell in love with him when he was a bit overweight, and he seems to find me attractive still. It's ourselves we couldn't accept - not each other.
I avoid public beaches, too. And public swimming pools. And parties where bathing suits are standard. And parties where other clothing is standard as well. I try to be completely invisible, although my route to invisible is a bit circuitous.
It's not just fat in movies, it's unattractive too. :( Symmetrical attractive features and slim bodies have been shown in studies to be linked to attractive character traits in people's minds. I guess they take advantage of that when casting.
I wish I knew what to tell you, but sadly I clearly don't.
Posted by Dinah on January 1, 2007, at 9:58:16
In reply to Re: That body image issue again » Dinah, posted by madeline on January 1, 2007, at 4:54:38
I wish I could come to that acceptance of myself.
I certainly don't judge others as harshly as I judge myself.
And my favorite dog ever, the one I say was so adorable? She was, she had the cutest face ever. But if you took her overall, she had some ugly issues herself. To me she was beautiful.
And my grandma, who looked an awful lot like my mother, was the most beautiful soul on earth to my grandpa, and beautiful to us grandchildren as well. I have pictures of him looking at her that brings a tear to my eye.
I think maybe the difference is that I feel responsibility for myself and my own body. And I get angry at myself for not doing those things that I know I could do. I can't look at myself without remembering the exercise I don't do, that emormous helping of yorkshire pudding.
Posted by Reggie BoStar on January 1, 2007, at 9:59:01
In reply to Re: That body image issue again » Reggie BoStar, posted by Dinah on January 1, 2007, at 9:43:32
Hi Dinah,
Wow, I sure didn't mean to suggest that you were implying anything like that. I was just using the topic as an excuse to explain my take on how it affects the guys(g).As always, too, there are exceptions to the media image thing. George Clooney and Paul Newman, for example, seem like genuinely nice guys. Paul Newman even has a rep for being a "regular Joe". But the overriding majority of media "hunks" are just that - images of things a lot of us can't be, causing a lot of us to go unnoticed before anyone can find out whether or not we're also nice guys like Newman and Clooney.
Not that I have any claims on being a "nice guy", but it sure would be nice to find out from somebody else whether or not I am.
Another rant. This looks liek it's going to be that kind of day for me. You should see what I'm doing on Yahoo Answers. No mercy.
Again, no negative suggestion intended at all. I was just piping up from the peanut gallery.
BTW I also have a therapist who's very helpful in this area, and she's a woman. II wasn't sure how that would work out, but now I see that it's a good idea for a social ingrate with a body image problem to have some kind of affirmation from the opposite sex.
That probagly sounds flaky too, but after all, that's why I'm here!
Hey, best wishes for the New Year, Dinah. It sounds like that issue-by-issue method used by your therapist is a good idea. That's what mine does - a series of logical observations to dispel all the myths I've created about myself.
Take care,
Reggie BoStar
Posted by Dinah on January 1, 2007, at 10:27:09
In reply to Re: That body image issue again » Dinah, posted by Reggie BoStar on January 1, 2007, at 9:59:01
Clearly it was my reading, and feelings of guilt. :)
I was feeling a bit uneasy about this thread, and especially feeling guilty towards my poor mother.
A very happy new year to you.
Posted by Poet on January 1, 2007, at 20:48:51
In reply to Re: That body image issue again » Poet, posted by Dinah on December 31, 2006, at 19:13:06
Hi Dinah,
I think it is probably easier with a female T to deal with body image issues. Though my T is plus sized and I can't help, but think my fat rant bothers her, and she doesn't let on. The only time she's said anything about my body/weight was when I was in a major depression and lost alot of weight in two weeks. She was concerned about it. So I guess she does notice what I look like, but only says something if she's worried about it.
Poet
Posted by Scentedgarden on January 1, 2007, at 21:42:25
In reply to Re: That body image issue again » Dinah, posted by Poet on January 1, 2007, at 20:48:51
Just wanna say...I like large people...really i do...and i don't think there's anything wrong with being big or fat or large or whatever you call it...I think it's attractive...but we all l.ike diff tings right..?! but i also think we are conditioned by the western world media to look thin, and be like the women and men in the movies and in the glossy magazines...quite frankly i cant be bothered with popular culture, and i like to make my own mind up...it is my expe3rience that I have found larger folks...both men and women to be happier in general..and i just wish anyone with body issues cn read this and know i mean every word..and i think fat is beautiful...for what it's worth...which may n ot be lots...
sg
ps ..i aint having a go at thin folks either..okay so dont take this the wrong way...im merely expressing my own valid opinion, as is everyones opinion valid...I hate diets...and i hate exercise for excercise sake...i live to eat not eat to live...i enjoy my food..im baout a size 16 inwestern UK sizes..no idea what that is in the states...but i like rolls of fat...and im working hard at gaing some weight here...yes i walk and i do other activities which i wont go into as its personal stuff....but i do it for the joy and the peace not to change my shape...I like who I am...hey in fact I wonder why Im in therapy at all...as ive just talked myself into a good mood....hahaha...
thats was a long p.s. lol
good luck...and each to their own on the body issues...this is mine...I'm happy with my fat and thats all im saying about that...Take care everyone, and enjoy yourself at least today....as scarlett O'hara said' after all tomorro is another day' ...sorry im rammbling here...must be the new year ...mking me dizzy...with delight..forgive me plz... and thanks to anyone who read this...cheers! happy new year.!
respectfully,
Scentedgarden
Posted by sunnydays on January 1, 2007, at 21:47:30
In reply to Re: That body image issue again, posted by Scentedgarden on January 1, 2007, at 21:42:25
I'm glad your so positive about your weight. My mom, for one, actively tried to gain weight because she thought she'd be happier, but just got more and more miserable. And her body image issues have passed to me - I think one of my big fears is being overweight. But I really really am glad that you are happy with your body - I think it would be a wonderful thing to be happy with mine.
sunnydays
Posted by Scentedgarden on January 2, 2007, at 16:22:27
In reply to Re: That body image issue again » Scentedgarden, posted by sunnydays on January 1, 2007, at 21:47:30
But I really really am glad that you are happy with your body - I think it would be a wonderful thing to be happy with mine.
>
> sunnydays
AWE.. THATS SO NICE SUNNY!!!I just thing the person inside is who counts fat or thin..but i personally aestetically prefer..fat to look at feel touch and cuddle...but thats a private personal choice...
im sorry ur mom's issue past to you..hopefully thrapy may be able to help you address, and recreate a new image for yourSELF...I love my tummy...and i dont try to put on wieght altho i realise i may have given thst impression....but i was just trying to be indicative of the fun i have eaating anythting i want...implying it was hard work eyc, i was just being flippant, and loose about it...trying to be funny to no avail...i guess sometimes my humour dont translate well...
im an average size, and im not a huge eater...but if i want someting i have it..and i eat a mix well balanced diet..i tend to find if i just go with the flow , i dont crave anyhting and im content with whatever ....a litttle of whT YOU FANCY IS GOD FOR YOU SORT OF THING...I DONT DWELL ON FOOD..I ENJOY IT WHEN I EAT AND THATS THAT..
BEST WISHES TO YOU
SG
Posted by Tamar on January 4, 2007, at 19:53:00
In reply to That body image issue again, posted by Dinah on December 31, 2006, at 15:43:58
You're so brave. I find it just about impossible to talk about body image in therapy. Like you, I really don't want my therapist to notice that I have a body. In fact, I don't want anyone to notice that I have a body. In fact, I don't actually want to have a body. I think I want to be a tree....
This is the end of the thread.
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