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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by antigua3 on September 2, 2007, at 23:40:36
Do you ever feel like you’re coming out of cloud, and you look around and wonder where you’ve been?
I’m feeling that now. A heavy cloud of four years is lifting and the 10-yr picture is clearer now. That’s when my last bout of trouble really started, 10 years ago, but the last four took an even darker turn. I don’t feel light yet, I still feel a weight, but it’s not so heavy.
Part of it has been a health issue that I didn’t even know I had. Dealing with that has been incredibly stressful this summer, and although I still face potentially serious health problems right now I’m feeling better physically than I have in a long time. (So don’t ever underestimate the effect of your health on how you’re feeling. Don’t always assume it’s your depression--I did--because depression can mask other things.)
Ten years ago, my life fell apart when my dreams came crashing down around me, and I lost all self confidence in my abilities. I failed at my dream, but the worst failure was that I had failed to try hard enough. I let my fear get in my way. In retrospect, it was inevitable but necessary, given the emotional road blocks I still faced. But I believed at the time that I was faced with the certainty that I would never fulfill my dreams. I thought life only gave us one dream, but lately I’ve found hope that other, different dreams are possible. Maybe it’s like your first love; it can never be again, but if we’re lucky enough to love again, it can be a settled, more secure love. I think dreams are like that, too. We can hope again.
I have worked over the past 10 years, but it has been busy work as I worked so hard in therapy to prepare myself emotionally for a better time. I didn’t know I was doing the busy work at the time, I was just plugging away trying to get through the day, depressed, upset and in large part consumed by therapy. I had another baby, which took me in all new directions, a clear course in avoidance. But the children are older now and the daily demands have lessened.
But the children getting older isn’t the only thing that has given me more time to live in the present. While my therapy is still intense at times, it’s not all consuming anymore. I’ve learned so much, and while I may have a ways to go, I am in a much better place. I recognize the triggers quicker, and let the harder things go just a little bit easier. It’s like anything else—the last 10 years I’ve worked hard and while it has been awful in many ways, every baby step was heading this way and I just didn’t know it.
My therapy with my T is secure. We still have a huge wall to break down—she is the good mother and am I still unable to break through to share how the little girl truly felt about her mother. I always protected the good mother, but now I see bits and pieces coming through that show a clearer picture of my own mother, and I don’t have to protect my T from her. Before I would never even consider the possibilities. T says I have to break through my idealization of her, and ask what I’m afraid of in how she would respond if I were honest about my feelings for my mother. Will my T still like and love the little girl, even if she has bad thoughts? Will it kill her if I tell her? So many childish questions yet to be answered.
But my T is right there with me. I hadn’t seen her for two weeks, and this week before my appt I was at the grocery store and saw these most beautiful white roses. They were breathtakingly beautiful, and I bought them for her and told her there was no one else in the world who deserved them more than she did. I don’t bring her presents—don’t know if I ever have before—and we don’t mark anniversaries, but my appreciation for her willingness to hold on with me for 17 years is invaluable.
I am a completely different person with her guidance, and I like who I am. I don’t know if I went through horrible transference with her; I don’t remember, but I’m sure I did. But we are dealing with it again on a different level, as I try to get past the good mother and believe that I am still lovable if she knows all of the truly horrible things. I don’t mean details, anymore, I mean at the heart of my soul will she think I’m evil and turn her back on me if she knew the darkest parts of me. Intellectually, I know she won’t, but my unwillingness to hurt her (which is a misconceived perception on my part) is still holding me back. But the bond is secure.
She called me yesterday just to thank me for the flowers. But I had to thank her again, because in this week’s session she opened my eyes to the sources of my current anxiety so clearly (so obviously based on my past) that my pain was eased. And the next day when another situation hit, I remembered what we had learned together and I could breathe again. I knew where I was coming from. I was in the midst of this anxiety crisis at the end of our session, and she said just stay here, let’s work through this and we were lucky we had the time available to work all the way through the issue so I could leave feeling so much better. She has that knack of tying it all up in a neat little bow.
My relationship with my male pdoc is so very different. I know some of you think he’s wrong for me. He could be, but he brings out a whole different side of me. I can be angry, petulant, sarcastic and downright mean. But he deserves it sometimes, in the way he is so hard on me and pushes me forward, maybe even when I’m not ready to go. He has hurt me and disappointed me, and we’ve worked through it to other levels that have increased my understanding and reliance on my own strength. We rarely agree and we fight, and I listen, but so does he.
He’s teaching me to let go. Last time, he said, “just let it go. If it’s important, it will come back.” I shook my head in disbelief at his naivety and said, what do you think I’ve been trying to do all these years? I’ve been trying to let go, but I don’t know how, nothing works. Didn’t he get it? But I tried this time let it go instead of ruminating obsessively over an image that may or may not be a memory or a truth. I don’t know how I did it, but it was easier than I thought.
It feels good to challenge his authority without caring about he feels. I laugh later, painfully at times, when I discover his words or actions were intentional. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, but I’m finding my way and am more at peace.
My pdoc helps in different ways from my T, and I am grateful for what I do learn from him. There is plenty of transference, but not a dependency in a way I’m used to. If a time comes when he’s no longer useful, I’m out the door. And I’m strong enough to do that. I still believe there are just some things I need to work through with a man.
I really don’t think he actually cares about me, but that’s fine with me. There is a freeing, an independence that I’m in charge. He has committed to not abandoning me without sufficient warning or preparation, no matter the circumstances, but I do have to trust him on that. Even so, if he fails, I know how to deal with it. People around us fail us all the time and it’s how we deal with it that matters because so often it is their issue and not a reflection of our own self-worth. It has taken me forever to accept this.
I do know, however, if that if I have an “over” reaction to a circumstance or event, I must first look inside myself for the reason.
Strange, rambling post, I know. But the thread about the moments we experience with our Ts that bring us so close to them (and yes, even my pdoc) reminds me that this wonderful feeling, for me anyway, is almost indescribable and at times surpasses reason or explanation. It just happens. It’s pure emotion and all the time we spend analyzing, obsessing, and the deep, deep pain that we all feel at times—all of these things have meaning and maybe peace can be found, or at least at times our understanding of ourselves or our pasts can be accommodated to soothe our unquieted souls.
Don’t get me wrong—I still obsess, over analyze and spend more time in my head than in my heart, but I know that now and I’m not quite so afraid. I’m not alone in the dark anymore.
antigua
Posted by muffled on September 2, 2007, at 23:56:00
In reply to A cloud has lifted (very long and rambling...), posted by antigua3 on September 2, 2007, at 23:40:36
It was beautiful.
Weird how so many parts of our T journeys overlap...
You give me hope.
I really need hope.
I'm scared.
I'm tired.
I wanna give up.
Thanks for this post of yours.
It helps.
I'm glad you see light at the end of the tunnel.
Good for you.
Thanks.
M
Posted by DAisym on September 3, 2007, at 0:31:29
In reply to A cloud has lifted (very long and rambling...), posted by antigua3 on September 2, 2007, at 23:40:36
Your post was beautifully written Antigua.
It is uplifting and yet practical - you hold the truth of the pain next to the gains and rewards that a connective relationship with a therapist can bring. You both deserve white roses.
I love that you've found someone to practice fighting with. I bet you are learning a lot about yourself. It is hard but you have a good perspective on it. What does your therapist think of him?
I think what I keep learning from you is that there are ebbs and flows to all of this and therapy has helped and is still helping you live your life better. And that is as it should be.
thank you for sharing.
Posted by antigua3 on September 3, 2007, at 8:55:40
In reply to I REALLY needed that. Thanks » antigua3, posted by muffled on September 2, 2007, at 23:56:00
Please don't give up, and try to find the smallest bit of hope where you can--in the beauty of your children or the warmnes of the day, or in the taste of something you truly love.
There is hope. It doesn't feel like it at times--I really know that--but try to hold on. And keep holding on with all your might.
thank you for your nice comments,
antigua
Posted by antigua3 on September 3, 2007, at 9:17:49
In reply to Re: A cloud has lifted (very long and rambling...), posted by DAisym on September 3, 2007, at 0:31:29
Thank you. I had to write, I don't know why. Just the urge kicking in again, which is really good too.
Great question. How does my T feel about my pdoc?
Well, to be honest sometimes she gets hopping mad at what he says to me, and often it turns out that it's my interpretation that may be out of whack, so each time is a learning lesson and helps me see how I respond to men.
sometimes she's intrigued by what he says and she agrees with me that as long as there is value in the relationship, then let's use him for all he's worth!
Sometimes she gets angry at how he treats me (like a good mother). She was really angry when he wouldn't return my calls once, and she said to tell him in no uncertain terms how long and hard she had worked with me to get me to call her when I felt I needed her (what, 12 yrs???). So she wished he understood that if I called, I needed him. But he doesn't see it that way, and I've come to understand his point of view. Not that I agree with it, or his approach sometimes, but I accept it. I accept that I can't lean on him and I don't. It sounds funny, but I'm mostly fine with that. I will not give him that power to hurt me in the way my father did. I will never give anyone that power again, or at least I will try to recognize what's happening and stop it before I become crazy over it.
It's interesting because my current pdoc took over patients from my old pdoc (my T recommended him), who strangely retired a couple of years ago without any warning. I wasn't attached, so it wasn't a problem for me; I just went with the new guy. But it turns out that his patients were split between at least two younger men, who are very friendly with one another. When my son had to be evaluated for school about something, I took him to this other guy, who my T just loves. (I didn't want to take him to mine; I thought there would be a conflict of interest, and frankly I thought he would be too hard on him).
The other guy is a great pdoc, I liked him enormously, and his approach with adolescents is more in line with my own thinking, while my pdoc appears to be unyielding in ways that are defintely helpful to many of his adolescent patients, but wouldn't have been for my son.
Sometimes I think of switching to the other guy, and I can easily call him if needed when my pdoc is away (they actually cover for one another!).
But it's so interesting that two different pdocs with the same mentor (my old T) would have such different opinions and orientations. It's fascinating actually.
Thanks for responding. I know I haven't been good about keeping up lately, but I read all the time and admire you so much for your honesty and bravery, and the helping hand you so often extend to others.
best,
antigua
Posted by JoniS on September 5, 2007, at 23:19:51
In reply to A cloud has lifted (very long and rambling...), posted by antigua3 on September 2, 2007, at 23:40:36
Antigua,
I really enjoyed reading your post. It all made sense to me and I could relate to it. I think you are another one of those Babblers who have the gift or talent or skill (or all) to express yourself clearly, in a way that is easy to understand and maybe even feel some of what you feel.
It's funny, I was just thinking, as I was driving home tonight, about how much my T means to me, it is indescribable. One thing I know is that I have spent some of my most wonderful hours of my life in that therapy session. That probably sounds bizarre, especially to anyone who hasn't been in therapy. Even though I'm feeling a little less dependent on my T, he still means so very much to me. You descibe what I'm feeling so much better than me, I love this part:
"...Strange, rambling post, I know. But the thread about the moments we experience with our Ts that bring us so close to them (and yes, even my pdoc) reminds me that this wonderful feeling, for me anyway, is almost indescribable and at times surpasses reason or explanation. It just happens. It’s pure emotion and all the time we spend analyzing, obsessing, and the deep, deep pain that we all feel at times—all of these things have meaning and maybe peace can be found, or at least at times our understanding of ourselves or our pasts can be accommodated to soothe our unquieted souls..."
I want more of that - soothing our unquieted souls...
Thanks for your post :-)
Joni
Posted by antigua3 on September 6, 2007, at 7:30:23
In reply to Re: A cloud has lifted (very long and rambling...) » antigua3, posted by JoniS on September 5, 2007, at 23:19:51
thank you so much; your comments were very kind.
best,
antigua
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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