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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by muffled on January 8, 2008, at 14:50:00
Geeze, I forgot bout your T thing :-(
Are you guys talking bout it LOTS?
Bout how to stay in touch?
Bout coping?
Bout grieving?
Least babble is wherever you go!
Guess your not comming my way? I think it was back east somewhere?
This sounds so incredibly simplistic and trite....but you WILL find and meet GOOD people where you are going.
Maybe meet some special friends.
No question its gonna be hard.
Wish we babblers could somehow help?
Is there anything we can say/do via the net that would help?
Just empathy?
Just listen if you want to post?
You got a good heart tender. And a well chosen name.
My thots are with you.
M
Posted by 10derHeart on January 9, 2008, at 0:02:41
In reply to 10derheart?, posted by muffled on January 8, 2008, at 14:50:00
Posted by 10derHeart on January 9, 2008, at 22:41:13
In reply to 10derheart?, posted by muffled on January 8, 2008, at 14:50:00
***some references to leaving a therapist, and also a few to God and faith - in case that might distress you, maybe don't read**
__________________________________________________> Geeze, I forgot bout your T thing :-(
well, it's not like you can remember ALL Babblers stuff here, 'specially when this one Never posts :-(
> Are you guys talking bout it LOTS?
> Bout how to stay in touch?
> Bout coping?
> Bout grieving?Yes and no. He lets me talk about it whenever I want, just like anything. I've put out one of my biggest fears already, which was these questions to him: "What if i can't stand it (missing him, etc.) and I keep emailing you? Or what if I want to hear your outgoing message so I call you after I leave? What if I ask you to call me back? What if I do those things More Than Once? What if...what if.....I act like your client but I am ex-client? What will you do?"
T. says: So, email! So, call me! What's wrong with it? Go ahead. Don't agonize over figuring out how NOT to. I will call back. I will answer your emails, because I will always be glad to hear from you. The labels of client or ex aren't important to me. You are you. You are 10derHeart.
And probably some other nice stuff I can't recall right now. Helps a lot, BUT of course, I can hardly believe that will be okay. Afraid, as I always am when we get into this sensitive area, of being a bad girl and in trouble and never seeing him again ever, and on and on....blah, blah.
> Least babble is wherever you go!
Yes! And really, plus being able to stay close with my family, are the only things allowing me to keep it together. Because the fact I'm going to voluntarily do this makes it so weird and hard to grasp emotionally (who to be mad at? myself? but that's no good...) Babble will keep my head above water if I need it - no one but the awesome people here could listen and understand about the pain of
leaving a T. you can't even stand being away from for a week or two...:-(> Guess your not coming my way? I think it was back east somewhere?
Nope - the other way :-) Not right in the city, but very close to Portland, Oregon. I forget which part of Canada you live in, although my foggy brains thinks it's the western part....? geez...watch out, I love to travel, and I've very interested in seeing more of Canada than just Toronto....
> This sounds so incredibly simplistic and trite....but you WILL find and meet GOOD people where you are going.
No, it sounds true and smart, as does most anything you write. I know I will and I want to. Isolation is unhealthy on so many levels and only magnifies heartbreaks. I will not let that happen...I hope.
> Maybe meet some special friends.
I really need those. My daughter does, too, and SIL. We tend to stay to ourselves, and that's not so great for the little one either. She needs to be exposed to other folks. Hope to occupy myself going to numerous churches to find a church home - that's where I want my foundation, stability and potential friends to come from. Since T. and I are both same religious beliefs, we've talked about this re: as you like to say God-stuff a lot. I told him I can see how God has set this up because life has seasons and He knows best, so maybe time with T. at this level (actual weekly therapy) is done, and there is something amazing waiting for me out West. That God made it sort of a choice - stay where comfortable w/T. or move to live near granddaughter, other family....'cause He knows there is no choice. Since I have the freedom to do it (financially, job-wise) I will NOT be separated from her. I love that little girl more than life itself. Anyway...at first I was furious w/God (and trust me, some nights around 3 am I still scream at Him: how could you make me choose between T. and granddaughter, when I love them both?!!) then I realized my beliefs are that God acts always from love and we just do NOT understand (maybe later, but rarely at the time) BUT his plans are to help and nurture, not to harm...so even though my human parts scream, "no, can't leave T!!" I do have a still, small voice that gets through and says, 'yes, you can, and you will for S. (granddaughter) and because you do trust God's way more than your powerful emotions over one man...(t.)"
So - I will go and be very, very, very sad for a good while. But I can still talk to T. sometimes, and I know I do matter to him. I know that makes me so fortunate compared to others w/T's with diff. boundaries.
> Wish we babblers could somehow help?
> Is there anything we can say/do via the net that would help?
> Just empathy?
> Just listen if you want to post?What a lovely thing to ask, even now, too, waaay in advance. You are so caring. Yes, just listen, though I hardly deserve it as I don't provide much support here. I keep trying to do better, then I still freeze up and only read...
> You got a good heart tender. And a well chosen name.
(((M))) Thanks. I try to have a good heart. [I use you as my example lately, you do know that, right? I am serious - you are like a warm. wonderful, soft blanket on this board, ready to wrap around others and steady and comfort them.] And Every time I mess up and know I don't (mean, nasty, rude, and all that) I do get up, make amends, ask God to forgive and start over again. It's all we humans can do, right? Like every person on this board does all the time, with struggles with mental stuff and all - mostly we keep doing life, and we just don't "do hopeless" - at least not for long. I always tell my T. - I just will Not "do hopeless" any more. Been there, done that, hated the scenery.
Much easier said than done, but with practice and Faith in something Higher and loving (for ME - I understand others don't want/have this), it gets a bit easier, you know? More automatic even with the worst emotions, griefs, whatever - to stop the spiral and say wait, I can feel all these things fully, and walk through them, But Hopeless....get Out! Be gone you Stealer of Good Things!
Right now, I'm going through a rupture with T. as he messed up really badly and caused a misunderstanding about a session between two trips of his. Results was I did/do not see him for 26 DAYS, which is the longest in 3+ years. Very upsetting and I'm sure first session or two back that's ALL we we talk about. He's angered and hurt me and this was a bad thing for him to get careless about, especially right now. He apologized by email and said he knows I am scared he doesn't care, isn't the same T. who knows me, and that the whole relationship is fake, and he 's not reliable any more.
I tell you, just for him to write: "I screwed up. I hurt you and our relationship. I know you are super-scared," was so satisfying to me, it was like a long-distance bandage he sent from where he's still on vacation. but I am not done cussing him out and so there are tears and uncomfortable times to come. But I guess it makes us stronger. It has before. I just hate it more now and even minute is precious and why waste them fixing stupid stuff?! <sigh>
well, anyone who read ALL THIS, wish I could mail you a Gold Medal (or a chocolate cookie!) as you deserve a great prize! lol. Guess I just held stuff in for months and put it in one post.......but...........guess what..............................................?
I can blame it on Muffy 'cause she asked! Hahaha!
---10derCrampedFingersFromTypingHeart
Posted by Daisym on January 9, 2008, at 23:32:00
In reply to Re: update-moving/leaving T., etc **mild triggers? » muffled, posted by 10derHeart on January 9, 2008, at 22:41:13
(((Tender)))
You know the West holds some wonderful things - Racer and I could throw you a welcome party. I know a few Babblers who are looking for an excuse to come out and create camp comfort for real. :)
As hard as it is to hold on to your faith, it is what will sustain you. And I think you will carry your therapist with you, in your heart and inside your head as you restart your life. That in no way lessens the pain of letting go. And you've had to let go of a beloved therapist more than once, which is evidence, I suppose, that God can be counted on to put good people, the people you need, in your path.
What is it about this uniquely weird relationship that is so powerful - with so much potential for pain and yet so full of love? I read what you wrote with tears - I hear the hurt but I also hear how close you are. Even discussing the rupture, and the email, you are balanced, open and clear about your feelings. You are upset with him, but accepting of his apology. Even as you know you still need to vent your anger. And he reads your fears long distance. This is all a powerful testimony to your relationship. So I have to believe that he won't just disappear when you move - he will remain available by phone and email, as he is now.
I'm glad you took the time to write. You are always so hard on yourself about how much you do or don't post. But that doesn't make you any less cared about by those who know you. So reach out if and when you need to. No one is keeping score.
Take care,
Daisy
Posted by muffled on January 9, 2008, at 23:39:04
In reply to Re: update-moving/leaving T., etc **mild triggers? » muffled, posted by 10derHeart on January 9, 2008, at 22:41:13
Thank you for that 10der.
Manoman! I am so, I dunno, I just feel SO warmed after reading your post!
OMG it was wonderful !
Thank you for that!
Thank you for sharing.
And 10der, you been around long enuf to know, that by sharing your 'stuff' here on babble, honestly and from the heart is a gift to others. It really is.
There are times we can actively support.
There are times when we just vent.
There are times we ask for support.
There are times just to share part of our story.
We all have different giftings, and these giftings may change from time to time, depending on where we are at.
So nevermore worry bout being supportive. This applies to ALL babblers.
Its ALL GOOD.
I'll write more later.
WOW.
((( 10der )))
M
Posted by muffled on January 10, 2008, at 12:55:27
In reply to Re: update-moving/leaving T., etc **mild triggers? » muffled, posted by 10derHeart on January 9, 2008, at 22:41:13
> > Are you guys talking bout it LOTS?
> > Bout how to stay in touch?
> > Bout coping?
> > Bout grieving?
>
> Yes and no. He lets me talk about it whenever I want, just like anything. I've put out one of my biggest fears already, which was these questions to him: "What if i can't stand it (missing him, etc.) and I keep emailing you? Or what if I want to hear your outgoing message so I call you after I leave? What if I ask you to call me back? What if I do those things More Than Once? What if...what if.....I act like your client but I am ex-client? What will you do?"*Good for you! Keep talking....
> T. says: So, email! So, call me! What's wrong with it? Go ahead. Don't agonize over figuring out how NOT to. I will call back. I will answer your emails, because I will always be glad to hear from you. The labels of client or ex aren't important to me. You are you. You are 10derHeart.
> And probably some other nice stuff I can't recall right now. Helps a lot, BUT of course, I can hardly believe that will be okay. Afraid, as I always am when we get into this sensitive area, of being a bad girl and in trouble and never seeing him again ever, and on and on....blah, blah.*Wow, now your T sounds lovely, no wonder you will miss him.
My T tends to be that way as well. :-)
I emailed my T over Christmas Hols. I felt so bad. I shouldn't have :-( I just HAD to....
Sigh.
Guess what, she mailed back and said 'thanks for the mail!'.
Then when I saw her yesterday, she said ' was delighted to get your mail over Christmas.'MANOMAN. I make MYSELF nuts!!! LOL!
I GUESS she honestly doesn't mind. She's only said it like more than a HUNDRED times!!!!
If your T is anything like mine....he IS there for you. I dunno why we have SUCH a hard time accepting this...
So I expect he EVEN proly would not mind a email, he would proly would actually LIKE to get an email. Whoah....
I'll go even FURTHER!!!! He would probably sad if you didn't!
;-)
My T has not complained yet. I send ALOT of emails....
I guess, when you think of it. How long does it REALLy take to read a quick mail and give a quick reply. Its nice to keep in touch.> > Least babble is wherever you go!
>
> Yes! And really, plus being able to stay close with my family, are the only things allowing me to keep it together. Because the fact I'm going to voluntarily do this makes it so weird and hard to grasp emotionally (who to be mad at? myself? but that's no good...) Babble will keep my head above water if I need it - no one but the awesome people here could listen and understand about the pain of leaving a T. you can't even stand being away from for a week or two...:-(*:-( Yeah, its not gonna be easy for sure. But your family will be there. And of course you can babble!
>Isolation is unhealthy on so many levels and only magnifies heartbreaks. I will not let that happen...I hope.
>> Maybe meet some special friends.
> I really need those. My daughter does, too, and SIL. We tend to stay to ourselves, and that's not so great for the little one either.*One thing my Tpointed out to me is that people are different. Some like to have many friends, others just like a few. And the nature of the realtionships varies. I don't need much friends, don't WANT much friends! LOL! But the few I DO have are very important to me.
>she needs to be exposed to other folks. Hope to occupy myself going to numerous churches to find a church home - that's where I want my foundation, stability and potential friends to come from.
*Sigh...I a little fried bout churches...they split, go bad :-(
Choose carefully...
Getting involved at your grandkids school is a great way to meet others.
Volunteering.> I told him I can see how God has set this up because life has seasons and He knows best, so maybe time with T. at this level (actual weekly therapy) is done, and there is something amazing waiting for me out West. That God made it sort of a choice - stay where comfortable w/T. or move to live near granddaughter, other family....'cause He knows there is no choice. Since I have the freedom to do it (financially, job-wise) I will NOT be separated from her. I love that little girl more than life itself. Anyway...at first I was furious w/God (and trust me, some nights around 3 am I still scream at Him: how could you make me choose between T. and granddaughter, when I love them both?!!) then I realized my beliefs are that God acts always from love and we just do NOT understand (maybe later, but rarely at the time) BUT his plans are to help and nurture, not to harm...so even though my human parts scream, "no, can't leave T!!" I do have a still, small voice that gets through and says, 'yes, you can, and you will for S. (granddaughter) and because you do trust God's way more than your powerful emotions over one man...(t.)"
*WOW. I loved to read this. You helped me too with what you wrote. ALOT.You set an amazing example to me. Your granddaughter is SO fortunate to have you in her life.
Guess God wants you to do a growth spurt!
I need to find my faith better, its so important.> So - I will go and be very, very, very sad for a good while. But I can still talk to T. sometimes, and I know I do matter to him. I know that makes me so fortunate compared to others w/T's with diff. boundaries.
*yeah. I like my T's boundaries too.
> What a lovely thing to ask, even now, too, waaay in advance. You are so caring. Yes, just listen, though I hardly deserve it as I don't provide much support here. I keep trying to do better, then I still freeze up and only read...
*Waaaay in advance....sigh..I expect the time will come all too soon :-(
But there are new adventures ahead for you!
Maybe you will come to my house and have coffee one day! :-)
> (((M))) Thanks. I try to have a good heart.*Well I think your are very successful!
And thanks for the sweetthings you said bout me.>I do get up, make amends, ask God to forgive and start over again. It's all we humans can do, right? Like every person on this board does all the time, with struggles with mental stuff and all - mostly we keep doing life, and we just don't "do hopeless" - at least not for long. I always tell my T. - I just will Not "do hopeless" any more. Been there, done that, hated the scenery.
* I loved this! I had spoken of amazing babblers to my T yesterday, how they struggle on and just keep going, and support others, jobs, etc. She was impressed!
> Much easier said than done, but with practice and Faith in something Higher and loving (for ME - I understand others don't want/have this), it gets a bit easier, you know? More automatic even with the worst emotions, griefs, whatever - to stop the spiral and say wait, I can feel all these things fully, and walk through them, But Hopeless....get Out! Be gone you Stealer of Good Things!
*WHOAH! You SO goto tell your T that Muffled thinks he sure done a GOOD job w/you!!! LOL! :-)
> Right now, I'm going through a rupture with T. as he messed up really badly and caused a misunderstanding about a session between two trips of his. Results was I did/do not see him for 26 DAYS, which is the longest in 3+ years.
*Stupid human T's!! Yeah mine has screwed up B4. But we got thru it. I grew from it. She proly did too.
> I tell you, just for him to write: "I screwed up. I hurt you and our relationship. I know you are super-scared," was so satisfying to me, it was like a long-distance bandage he sent from where he's still on vacation. but I am not done cussing him out and so there are tears and uncomfortable times to come. But I guess it makes us stronger. It has before. I just hate it more now and even minute is precious and why waste them fixing stupid stuff?! <sigh>
*Actually, this kind of 'stupid stuff' is the very thing that seems to bring us closer...we get thru it and our realtionship is stronger. We are stronger. We find out that mistakes happen, and its not neccessarily about US! Our T's just screw up, and cuz they DO like us, they honestly feel bad. But the care enuf to say sorry. They care enuf to make repair. And that feels good.
((( T's )))
Thanks for this post 10der. You grew me some for sure.
(((10der)))
Its gonna be SO hard, but you'll get thru it.
You got God, family, babble, new friends to come.
You even still got T, its just different.
You can touch base w/him and know he's OK.
He can know your OK.
Its gonne be OK.
> I can blame it on Muffy 'cause she asked! Hahaha!*:-)
GLAD I DID!!! Ask and ye shall receive apparently!!! :-)M
Posted by Dinah on January 10, 2008, at 19:29:24
In reply to Re: update-moving/leaving T., etc **mild triggers? » muffled, posted by 10derHeart on January 9, 2008, at 22:41:13
10der, I love what you wrote and I love what Daisy wrote, and I love what Muffled wrote. It's hard to know what to add to that.
I can hear so much centeredness (if that's a word) to your words, under the sadness of loss. I so admire that. It was lacking in me when I made the decision to leave and then backed out of it. Because you have it, I think you really are ready.
Posted by annierose on January 11, 2008, at 7:42:31
In reply to Re: update-moving/leaving T., etc **mild triggers? » muffled, posted by 10derHeart on January 9, 2008, at 22:41:13
Good Luck out West! I admire your courage to expand your horizons and start anew.
Do you have any plans to find a new therapist? That might help with some grief with the move.
Posted by 10derHeart on January 16, 2008, at 1:43:18
In reply to tomorrow I will write about this-thx 4 asking :-) (nm) » muffled, posted by 10derHeart on January 9, 2008, at 0:02:41
But glad, too. So many mixed up feelings after he promised me a session for several weeks on a particular. day, then remembered <24 hours prior he'd messed up the date and wasn't working that day either. Then emailed, "oops, sorry I was unclear." Thus, a 26-day zero therapy stretch :-( It's been....weird. Sad, long, strange...I dunno.
I sent him an email telling him some of my conflicting emotions. I feel kinda bad 'cause in one part I wrote I might want to curse him and even throw a pillow at him ( Poet - thinking of you and T.) and in his reply he said, "you can curse me, but please don't throw anything at me." Have I finally made him scared of me? I hope not. I thought pillows were safe and non-threatening. I hope he doesn't feel threatened - I'd never harm him.
Oh well, the rest of his reply was nice - the usual him. I really like that he said he'll be the same, but different, too, because he knows something has just happened that was huge for me and he wouldn't want to act like everything was "fine' as that's not honest, or something like that. When he writes like that, I know he gets me.
Anyway, I'll try to post and say how it went.
And respond to all your great posts from before. I've been so overly tired and working too many hours and first sleeping too much, then staying up all night, overeating, not eating, up, down.....so scattered I completely forget I'd even written this thread.
Probably all stress - maybe it will be *much* better after tomorrow.
Posted by Dinah on January 16, 2008, at 9:41:13
In reply to see T. tomorrow finally after 26 days...anxious, posted by 10derHeart on January 16, 2008, at 1:43:18
The timing of this is probably involved too. :(
It's hard to read tone in emails. I doubt his tone on asking you not to throw things in it was fearful. He knows you too well. Not to say therapy boundaries don't differ of course. My therapist would be upset if I threw a pillow at him because he sits next to some statues he values. Or I might muss his hair. :)
It's ok to be angry with him. And it sounds as if he'll respond sensitively.
Posted by muffled on January 16, 2008, at 13:09:58
In reply to see T. tomorrow finally after 26 days...anxious, posted by 10derHeart on January 16, 2008, at 1:43:18
LOL 10der he was proly trying to be funny bout pillow. But who knows.
Hope it goes well for you.
Take care,
M
This is the end of the thread.
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