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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by raisinb on June 12, 2008, at 13:51:59
So, last night I got home from a week out of town to find a bill from my therapist.
Several weeks ago, when I had my bad breakdown, I had a phone conversation (well, more like fight) with her. After about 25 minutes, she said she had to go, and hung up on me.
She billed my insurance for that phone conversation, and her practice sent me a bill for the copay.
My therapist has NEVER billed me for phone calls before--I'd always assumed that if I called frequently, or excessively, she'd have to start, but I never do that. In fact, that night was the first time I'd asked to talk to her on the phone in over six months. Nevertheless, she's never even hinted that she'd be charging for phone calls, especially not ones that last 25 minutes. In fact, I didn't want to be needy and call--SHE was the one who kept urging me to call her between sessions!
After she hung up on me that night, I took in the vicinity of 20 pills--sleeping pills and Vicodin--and a whole bottle of wine. I was pretty messed up for a couple of days, and I am scared when I think about it. And she has the nerve to bill me for it!
Well, I was livid, and I called her last night. She called me back and said that, technically, the insurance permitted billing for any call 30 minutes or over, so that charge would stand. This is the first time in three years that I've heard of this (not to mention, that call wasn't 30 minutes I am positive).
I was very angry and left her a couple messages telling her exactly how I felt--that if she was going to change policies like this, it needed discussion, so I could know before I made calls like that. It was late at night by then, but I had to express how I felt.
She never even called me back--which has never happened. She always calls me right back, especially when I am angry or upset with her.
It is hard not to feel like I am being punished.
I am so upset, I alternate between rage and crying, I just can't seem to get past this.
Posted by Happyflower on June 12, 2008, at 14:04:39
In reply to I am SO upset **maybe trig?**, posted by raisinb on June 12, 2008, at 13:51:59
(((Raisin)))
How awful for her to do this. Is this rule stated anywhere in her policies that she should have given you at the beginning of therapy? No wonders she wants you to call, so she can make the big bucks. I am so sorry.
Posted by raisinb on June 12, 2008, at 14:07:10
In reply to Re: I am SO upset **maybe trig?** » raisinb, posted by Happyflower on June 12, 2008, at 14:04:39
Exactly. Here this whole time I thought she wanted me to call because she cared and wanted this to work. She just wanted overtime to help with her gas expenses.
No, she never mentioned this to me, and it is not in any of the client documents on the practice website. We've had lots of phone conversations over the three years I have been seeing her, and she always calls back right away, stays on the phone with me patiently, listens, and she has never once billed me for it.
You know, it's only 15 bucks, but it's about a heck of lot more than that.
Posted by raisinb on June 12, 2008, at 14:11:55
In reply to Re: I am SO upset **maybe trig?** » Happyflower, posted by raisinb on June 12, 2008, at 14:07:10
I don't know what to do, do I call again? I'm so upset I can't think straight. I have never ever had to call her twice before.
Posted by Happyflower on June 12, 2008, at 14:23:58
In reply to Re: I am SO upset **maybe trig?**, posted by raisinb on June 12, 2008, at 14:11:55
I don't know Raisin, would you leave a message or talk to her directly? Maybe write down what you want to say, because I think she will listen better if you are calmer. But I understand why you are livid though.
Posted by raisinb on June 12, 2008, at 14:26:20
In reply to Re: I am SO upset **maybe trig?** » raisinb, posted by Happyflower on June 12, 2008, at 14:23:58
I'd leave a message, and she'd get the page. I don't know what to do. I feel so upset and rejected, and the person who is supposed to help me deal with that never even called me back. I can't believe this. She was so committed to my therapy, she was totally passionate about it, and now she is abandoning me without a word? what happened in the last month that I was on a break?
Posted by muffled on June 12, 2008, at 14:59:13
In reply to Re: I am SO upset **maybe trig?** » Happyflower, posted by raisinb on June 12, 2008, at 14:26:20
Raisin, I am SO sorry this is ahppening. It is SO frikken WRONG.
We need Poet to give her a huge cyberslap.
Arrgggh. i wish I could advocate for you. Do you have a friend you can trust who will step into this for you?
Or can you set up a mediuation session with her and another neutral T? I just hate to see her get away with this.
Is there any way you can find out exactly how long the phone call was? do you call call dsiplay or mebbe the phone co. could tell you?
I also wonder about the legality of her charging you for a call when is not on any documents, or their website, and you were never informed of and have never been charged for it in the past. I realize its only 15 bucks,But ya. its totally the principle of the thing.
I truly think you need an advocate/mediator for this situation.
And truly, if you feel its too much for you, you do what you need to take care of yourself and walk away if thats best.
Its just you are SO imotionally invested and this is an unequal power set, so I think you REALLY need to get outside help to solve this. I would not geta T out of HER practice to mediate, get an OUTSIDE T.
It would be nice to see this resolved in a fair way. I thinks T are so unregulated, just by the very nature of their profession, that its GOOD to give them a wake up call now and again. I don't think it happens often cuz clients can be so emotionally overloaded, they just don't persue it, and colleques rarely rat each other out. Its sad and scarey.
Take good care. Keep posting here if it helps, and try and get some OUTSIDE IRL help in this.
M
Posted by LadyBug on June 12, 2008, at 15:42:13
In reply to Re: I am SO upset **maybe trig?**, posted by raisinb on June 12, 2008, at 14:11:55
raisinb
I don't blame you for the way you feel! I'd feel the same way. As for calling her again, yes, tell her that you are wondering why she hasn't responded to you call in a timely manor.I think you and I should take our T's and put them in a padded room and let them duke it out with each other, we can watch while they get some sense knocked into them. How can someone change so fast with the rules and boundaries.
I'm mad for you. Send her 15 bucks in pennies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She'll get it then!!
I dare ya!
Ladybug
Posted by Happyflower on June 12, 2008, at 15:52:56
In reply to Re: I am SO upset **maybe trig?** » raisinb, posted by LadyBug on June 12, 2008, at 15:42:13
>
> I think you and I should take our T's and put them in a padded room and let them duke it out with each other, we can watch while they get some sense knocked into them.Well I think that might be a problem, they have to have some sense to knock it into someone else. I think it would be more like a couple of crash dummies. lol
>
> I'm mad for you. Send her 15 bucks in pennies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She'll get it then!!> Ladybug
Oh, Ladybug, that is so funny and creative! HaHa!
I joke with my T lately that how can he feel good about charging when he makes money off from what abusers do to other people, and the fact that he takes a vacation every month it seems. He laughes and said he doesn't feel guilt yet, and I tell him , just wait, I am not finished yet. lol
Posted by muffled on June 12, 2008, at 17:39:13
In reply to Re: I am SO upset **maybe trig?** » LadyBug, posted by Happyflower on June 12, 2008, at 15:52:56
Hope you Ok raisin.
If you do decide to send money, the pennies is an excellent idea! Don't roll them, just send it in a bag.
Take care,
M
Posted by Rigby on June 12, 2008, at 17:41:30
In reply to I am SO upset **maybe trig?**, posted by raisinb on June 12, 2008, at 13:51:59
Raisin, this totally sucks. It makes me angry for you but also it makes it feel like therapists can too easily take advantage of clients--the more unstable, the more vulnerable the better.
If we don't think therapists have money on their mind, check this out: http://buildyourtherapypractice.com/
I wonder how those therapists would feel if they knew clients could see them posting on this site. I get it. They need to make money. But from the client side it's like you feel like they're friggin' vultures.
If you can, try and do nothing for a day or so and then make a decision once your head is cleared a bit.
Posted by raisinb on June 12, 2008, at 18:24:23
In reply to I am SO upset **maybe trig?**, posted by raisinb on June 12, 2008, at 13:51:59
I am still stunned by it. What exactly happened? All that stuff about how much she wanted to make it work, how she would "be there" no matter what, how I was "meant" to be there.
What on earth is going on? This is pure spite. I just don't understand it. I just don't. This is not like her at all.
Posted by llurpsienoodle on June 12, 2008, at 18:25:28
In reply to Re: I am SO upset **maybe trig?**, posted by Rigby on June 12, 2008, at 17:41:30
Raisin,
You have every right to be upset, confused, irritated, and mixed up about what has happened. I wish you wouldn't take it out on yourself though. The thing is that you did nothing wrong. You needed help in an emergency, and frankly, that's her job-- to be there in an emergency.About this overdose thing-- are you safe? We worry about you, you know? I don't want you to get hurt because of this. There's no way that you can twist this around and make ANY of it your fault. So try your best not to punish yourself.
-Ll
Posted by AbbieNormal on June 12, 2008, at 18:46:57
In reply to I am SO upset **maybe trig?**, posted by raisinb on June 12, 2008, at 13:51:59
If you really want to fight it, you can call your insurance company. Tell them that you are quite sure that the phone call was only 25 min. If her contract with them says she can only bill for 30min or more, then what she did is insurance fraud. They won't like that. They can contact her and ask for proof.
Abbie
Posted by Dinah on June 12, 2008, at 19:55:44
In reply to Re: I am SO upset **maybe trig?**, posted by raisinb on June 12, 2008, at 18:24:23
My therapist and I worked out that he would charge me for calls of 15 minutes or more. And as it happens, I usually pay him a percent of the time for any call that approaches ten minutes even if he doesn't request it. In fact, I prefer that I do it before he can request it because it's less hurtful to me that way.
But the point is that we worked that out. He didn't spring it on me after the fact. It's fine to have whatever policy she might have about calls. But it should be clarified before the charge is billed, not after. It is unprofessional not to be upfront about charges.
I'm sorry she didn't return your call. :( It sounds as if she's angry at this point. I know they aren't supposed to be angry if we quit, or semi-quit, or if we are angry with them. But they do at times anyway, and if she is angry it's probably best for *you* if she pulls herself together and remembers her professional identity before she calls you.
(((raisinb)))
Posted by Dinah on June 12, 2008, at 20:01:23
In reply to Re: I am SO upset **maybe trig?**, posted by Rigby on June 12, 2008, at 17:41:30
Do you have to join in order to see anything other than the testimonials? I couldn't get past the front page.
I have a certain amount of sympathy for the therapists in private practice. Certainly their first duty is to their clients wellbeing, and they shouldn't try to increase their income at the expense of their client's best interests.
But it's scary to be a sole proprietor, with all the attendant overhead costs and a fluctuating client load. Most stuff is short term right now, and I'm guessing there are seasonal variations, local economy variations, and tons of other things that lead to a fair amount of uncertainty for a practitioner in this day and age. Not only because of managed care, but also because of the number of people from various disciplines who are able to be licensed to do therapy. And no vacation pay, no paid insurance, etc. etc.
And I say this even though I'm well aware that my therapist may take a full time job because of those worries. I may hate it personally, but in theory I am sympathetic.
Posted by star008 on June 12, 2008, at 21:30:27
In reply to Re: I am SO upset **maybe trig?**, posted by Rigby on June 12, 2008, at 17:41:30
Maybe an abandonment trigger?? It sounds terrible and i am sorry you have had to go through this. Our T's are people too though and they have their bad times and sometimes are just wrong..This to me seems very unprofessional. I hope things work out for you and that she hasn't ruined everything.
Posted by muffled on June 12, 2008, at 23:00:54
In reply to Re: I am SO upset **maybe trig?**, posted by star008 on June 12, 2008, at 21:30:27
how can a T do 40 clients a week? They would have to work REALLY long days. Seems assembly line to me :-(
Raisin, I hope you can get things sorted out, sometimes (for me, OFTENtimes) things w/T are not all what they may seem.
FWIW my T said she would 'be there' for me, I was important to her, she cared, etc etc....but once I was gone....seems mebbe she didn't care as much as I thot she did. But mebbe its just me and my dumb habit of getting things wrong. Who knows, I not so bothered no more, its easier now. It'll get easier for you too eventually.
Maybe give her a chance to give her side of the story.
Hang in there, sorry its such a mess.
But it will ease up.
M
Posted by Phillipa on June 13, 2008, at 12:40:40
In reply to Re: I am SO upset **maybe trig?**, posted by muffled on June 12, 2008, at 23:00:54
Late to thread but I'm sorry please don't hurt yourself. Be safe. Phillipa
Posted by Rigby on June 13, 2008, at 13:42:09
In reply to Re: I am SO upset **maybe trig?** » Rigby, posted by Dinah on June 12, 2008, at 20:01:23
Hi Dinah,
I think you may have to join to see posts but I found the site when I at some point googled my therapist and saw that she posted so I guess I got in the back door. She was talking about where she gets business. It was pretty tame.
I do see what you're saying for sure. And I have my own business so I can relate to survival.
Ironically I just got a call a few minutes ago from my therapist. I was going to see her a few times here/there but dropped it because I didn't want to strain my schedule (I'm just not real motivated) so she was being a bit more aggressive about getting me in. I definitely feel more in the camp that this is about money vs. me. A mix of my stuff and reality I'm guessing.
Raisin-sorry, don't mean to be hijacking your thread here!
> Do you have to join in order to see anything other than the testimonials? I couldn't get past the front page.
>
> I have a certain amount of sympathy for the therapists in private practice. Certainly their first duty is to their clients wellbeing, and they shouldn't try to increase their income at the expense of their client's best interests.
>
> But it's scary to be a sole proprietor, with all the attendant overhead costs and a fluctuating client load. Most stuff is short term right now, and I'm guessing there are seasonal variations, local economy variations, and tons of other things that lead to a fair amount of uncertainty for a practitioner in this day and age. Not only because of managed care, but also because of the number of people from various disciplines who are able to be licensed to do therapy. And no vacation pay, no paid insurance, etc. etc.
>
> And I say this even though I'm well aware that my therapist may take a full time job because of those worries. I may hate it personally, but in theory I am sympathetic.
Posted by muffled on June 15, 2008, at 22:24:05
In reply to Re: I am SO upset **maybe trig?** » Dinah, posted by Rigby on June 13, 2008, at 13:42:09
This is the end of the thread.
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