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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on May 20, 2009, at 21:24:53
It turns out that there was grist for the mill in the fire drill, beyond the fee question. A hard look at things we tend to gloss over in the therapy room. The fact that I have trouble thinking of him as the same person he is inside the room when he's not inside the room. My feelings of social inferiority to him, and my conviction that he is "other". One of the outgoing, socially skilled, attractive group of people.
He tried to convince me of his geek credentials, but I'm not sure I bought it. Being smart and liking science fiction does not in itself buy you a ticket to that elite group. :)
He also mentioned how uncomfortable he was during the drill, trying to figure out what the professional sort of response should be. For a moment, his vulnerability showed through, and I felt a certain kinship. I'm not sure I liked that, but I appreciated it. If that makes sense.
Ironically, his pants were ripped, and after spending most of the session trying not to notice (which is my customary habit in those situations) I recollected something about it being more polite to point it out so that he won't go all day that way. Which was dreadfully embarrassing to both of us no doubt. And I'm not sure I'm not going to go back to not noticing from here on out. Still, it did buttress his position that he was imperfect. So to speak.
I've been very listless this week. So much so that my family keeps asking me what's wrong. I don't know that anything's wrong exactly. And I checked for hormonally induced problems and that doesn't fit. I'm just a bit depressed and listless. It might have something to do with being upset about something so stupid that I'm embarrassed to mention it to anyone, since everyone just laughs. Even my therapist had trouble keeping a straight face and not rolling his eyes. And my husband did laugh.
Ah well, I daresay this too shall pass. It might well come back, but it will pass.
Posted by Dinah on May 20, 2009, at 21:41:44
In reply to A ramble, posted by Dinah on May 20, 2009, at 21:24:53
Or maybe it's thinking about how much of my life I forget. My husband and son tell me that I drive him to summer camp every year. Weeks at a time. And I can't remember this at all. Even armed with the sure knowledge that it happened, I can't dredge up a single flash of memory. Or even remember *that* I did it.
Posted by Dinah on May 20, 2009, at 21:46:15
In reply to Re: A ramble, posted by Dinah on May 20, 2009, at 21:41:44
Or maybe it's the gyn appointment I had. On the upside, I found out that you can ask for and get a smaller speculum. And that after you ask, the doctor will be extra special nice and brief. On the downside, all my doctors - every single last one - think I'm a nutty neurotic. If nothing else gives me away, my list of meds usually does.
Still, I suppose that has an upside too. They all check to make sure I'm still in therapy and are very relieved that I am. If I ever need a prescription for therapy, they'll all be happy to give it.
Hmmm... Maybe they can see how tense I am, and how I blank out a bit.
Posted by jane d on May 20, 2009, at 21:59:12
In reply to Re: A ramble, posted by Dinah on May 20, 2009, at 21:46:15
> all my doctors - every single last one - think I'm a nutty neurotic. If nothing else gives me away, my list of meds usually does.
>
> Still, I suppose that has an upside too. They all check to make sure I'm still in therapy and are very relieved that I am. If I ever need a prescription for therapy, they'll all be happy to give it.I had a doc that always asked that too. It must be on a checklist they learn. And I always heard, or at least imagined, a sigh of relief when I said yes.
And don't you love it when there isn't enough room on the form to list all your meds? There's nothing like having to cram a half dozen meds in the margins to make you feel like you're taking too many.
jane
Posted by Dinah on May 20, 2009, at 22:03:17
In reply to Re: A ramble » Dinah, posted by jane d on May 20, 2009, at 21:59:12
This time they asked me to give them my list so they can make a copy. Oddly enough, I had one. :)
My husband had me laminate one, and put it in my wallet. Tiny print.
Posted by Dinah on May 20, 2009, at 23:45:13
In reply to A ramble, posted by Dinah on May 20, 2009, at 21:24:53
Ugh.
Ignore this whole thread please. I think I'm overtired.
Posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2009, at 12:23:50
In reply to Re: A ramble, posted by Dinah on May 20, 2009, at 23:45:13
Dinah you may be tired but these things are bothering you enough to write about them so please continue. Get them out. Love Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on May 21, 2009, at 13:06:23
In reply to Re: A ramble » Dinah, posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2009, at 12:23:50
Thanks, Phillipa.
I was hoping, I think, that if I wrote it all down something would pop out at me. But it hasn't. It feels almost hormonal in its lack of reason. But the timing is wrong.
So, do you point out if someone has a rip in their pants? Or do you say nothing and choose not to notice?
Posted by seldomseen on May 21, 2009, at 16:19:01
In reply to A ramble, posted by Dinah on May 20, 2009, at 21:24:53
Well, it sounds to me as though you've had a lot of invasive events these past few days. The fire drill certainly shattered your therapeutic space with your therapist. Then he took the little bits of it that were left and splintered them by asking for payment. For me, that whole fire drill deal, in and of itself, would be sufficient to rattle my foundation a little bit.
Then, there's the GYN appointment. Honestly, I just don't understand WHY they can't either (1) Find a better way to do that whole thing or (2) Let the patient opt for general sedation for the procedure. Those appointments send me reeling for days.
Now, if you combined the two, well, I would be a *bit* discombobulated, and seeking to find a solid place. I would try to take it easy on yourself until you can feel the ground again.
Now, about the rip. Well, here's the deal, I usually go out with some sort of tear, hole, stain or dangling string in my clothing. I am so not a details person and (as Mia said on "In Treatment") I don't do pretty, that I either don't notice or don't care.
However, I'm not at all comfortable with other people pointing it out to me either. It's puts me in a position of having to either *explain* that I don't care or act surprised and be like "Oh dear, I can't have anything nice" - which is worse because then I feel like I can't wear the item again. In my opinion, we all have a clothes battle to fight each and every morning. If all the major parts are covered, I'm all about live and let live.
I hope you feel better soon.
Seldom
Posted by Dinah on May 21, 2009, at 16:42:55
In reply to Re: A ramble, posted by seldomseen on May 21, 2009, at 16:19:01
Well, that was the issue. It was the zipper. No skin showing, thank heavens. But I can probably answer that popular question.
I think I definitely prefer not mentioning it, even if it was a bit distracting. On the one hand, I feel like I was ridiculous to be embarrassed by such a thing at my age. But on the other hand, I can't help thinking that were I him, I'd prefer finding it on my own next time I visited the restroom, and hoping that no one else noticed.
Definitely next time I'll "not notice" it.
I think you're likely right. Between the outright invasiveness, and the overtones involved in both events, it would make sense to be a bit unsettled. But this degree of tearfulness and listlessness seems a bit of an overreaction.
Maybe getting "better" mainly means realizing this will pass.
Posted by seldomseen on May 21, 2009, at 18:09:32
In reply to Re: A ramble » seldomseen, posted by Dinah on May 21, 2009, at 16:42:55
Yeah, this time will pass.
Sometimes a sequence of events will make me feel as though I am in a freefall, a cascade a tumbling end over end.
Then slowly the ground begins to solidify under my feet. Maybe it's distraction, or magic, or some small barely perceptible step that I took to grab on, but there it is. The ground. It's so nice when it shows up.
Peace to you and take good good care
Seldom.
Posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2009, at 21:23:25
In reply to Re: A ramble » Phillipa, posted by Dinah on May 21, 2009, at 13:06:23
Dinah me I say oh I think you might have a rip in your pants. Now in a crowd would whisper quietly or see if can get them alone and tell them. Cause if I had something in my let's say front tooth would want to know. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2009, at 21:28:14
In reply to Re: A ramble » Phillipa, posted by Dinah on May 21, 2009, at 13:06:23
I just like to know and figure the other person also would but that's me. And that's what I say to others when out and have shorts and shirt and sneeks. This is me no high heels no dresses. Accept me as I am. Seriously I don't care what others think. Unless it's hair related. Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on May 21, 2009, at 22:23:00
In reply to Re: A ramble » Dinah, posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2009, at 21:28:14
It's a hard one to figure out.
On the one hand, I'd really rather not tell him that I noticed anything near his crotch.
On the other hand, when you try not to look at someone's crotch, it's all you can see.
On the one hand, I'm sure he would like to know so he could fix it or sit with his legs closed.
On the other hand, if he went to the bathroom and discovered it himself, he need never know that I noticed it. This would be what I'd prefer for myself.
And of course on the other other other hand, I doubt he thought about it once he stapled his pants together, or whatever he did. While I'm still worrying about what I'd do if it happens again. Which it never has in fourteen years so likely will never happen again.
It'd be silly of me to start getting social anxiety about something that isn't likely to happen again.
(I think I might possibly have giggled in my nervousness. I can't bear to think I giggled.)
Posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2009, at 20:12:10
In reply to Re: A ramble » Phillipa, posted by Dinah on May 21, 2009, at 22:23:00
Dinah if never happened in 14 years no won't again so that's one less worry right? Love Phillipa
Posted by Nadezda on May 23, 2009, at 16:54:35
In reply to Re: A ramble » Phillipa, posted by Dinah on May 21, 2009, at 13:06:23
If it was my Therapist-- yes.
Otherwise depends on the person and the placement of the rip.
I kind of figure, if it's too uncomfortable, everyone will just try to ignore it, as I am-- and after all-- these things happen... so the person will live it down.
But if I'm comfortable doing it, I would. Seems the thoughtful, caring thing to do.
It's an interesting subject, though-- and could be really good to pursue for you and your T.
Nadezda
Posted by Nadezda on May 23, 2009, at 17:01:09
In reply to Re: A ramble, posted by seldomseen on May 21, 2009, at 16:19:01
I think they overdo the once a year testing thing, anyway. Once every few years seems sufficient.
-- My gyn insists on it-- they all do. It's called defensive medicine-- as if, if they don't, you're going to sue them. I call it extortion-- My gyn won't refill my meds if I don't do it.
I think they should give you general anesthesia and do all the tests they need to do for everything while you're under. If only that were practical.
Nadezda
Posted by rskontos on May 23, 2009, at 18:20:54
In reply to Re: A ramble » Phillipa, posted by Dinah on May 21, 2009, at 13:06:23
...So, do you point out if someone has a rip in their pants? Or do you say nothing and choose not to notice?....
Now that's a hard one.
On one hand it is not nice to allow him to walk around with a rip in his pants and then on the other hand, it is an embarrassing situation.
Now this would be hard be it co-worker, or friend but when its your t that makes it harder. Because I would be embarrassed to think about it each session afterward.
I guess I am not much help.
rsk
Posted by Dinah on May 24, 2009, at 0:03:37
In reply to Re: A ramble, posted by rskontos on May 23, 2009, at 18:20:54
He made it easy for me. Yesterday he seemed to have totally forgotten it, and was totally at ease. Which left me at ease.
I still think I'll go with ignoring it if it ever happens again.
I was wondering what I'd want him to do in the same situation. He's probably one of those people who can point it out in such a way as to not make anyone uncomfortable. But I think I'd rather walk around all day with a tear in my zipper than consider the possibility that my therapist had seen that portion of my anatomy.
:)
Posted by Dinah on May 24, 2009, at 0:04:38
In reply to Re: A ramble » Dinah, posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2009, at 20:12:10
My husband was laughing at me because he knows I obsess about awkward social situations. He thought everything would be fine this time, and it was.
Posted by Dinah on May 24, 2009, at 0:11:04
In reply to Re: A ramble, posted by Nadezda on May 23, 2009, at 16:54:35
I don't think I want to explore it. :)
I ended up blushing, and likely giggling, again this session. I had told him that I was trying to learn an obscene gesture, and was having a lot of trouble mastering it. He thought it would be rather empowering for me to mentally give it now and again and was demonstrating it to me. While he didn't verbally urge me to copy him, it's clear he'd have liked me to. It was like trying to dance. I was so embarrassed at my total lack of physical coordination that I just could not try to do it. I'm trying to get my husband to coach me.
I don't like blushing and I *hate* giggling, so I hope I don't do it again anytime soon.
Posted by seldomseen on May 24, 2009, at 12:00:36
In reply to Re: A ramble » seldomseen, posted by Nadezda on May 23, 2009, at 17:01:09
I don't want to hijack Dinah's thread, but I agree, the pairing of an invasive exam with presecription birth control is extortion and, IMO unethical.
The ob/gyns have no medical or legal grounds to tie the pap test with a prescription for these meds. None.
You just have to find the right ob/gyn (which I FINALLY did) who realizes this.
Instead of their self-righteous insistance on the gyn exam, they SHOULD insist on a complete cardiovascular workup as there is a clear connection between these meds and clotting, pulmonary embolism and stroke.
THAT should be their legal obligation.
Seldom
Posted by Dinah on May 24, 2009, at 12:10:43
In reply to Re: A ramble » Nadezda, posted by seldomseen on May 24, 2009, at 12:00:36
Thread hijacking is something you never need to worry about with me. I don't at all mind if a thread has tangents.
Is the annual pap smear really unnecessary? I noticed the breast cancer check is now really pro forma. I don't even take off my top. I suppose they rely more on the mammogram. I always had the vague feeling that the pap smear was only part of what they did.
My dentist doesn't even offer gas as an alternative anymore, but if gynecologists offered it, it might make those exams more bearable. If it weren't for dissociation, I'm not sure how I could get through them.
Posted by Dinah on May 24, 2009, at 12:19:42
In reply to Re: A ramble, posted by seldomseen on May 21, 2009, at 16:19:01
By the way, I don't do pretty either. The whole reason the fact that his zipper was effectively unzipped was so ironic was that we were just talking about that. I had been telling him that outside the room, I saw him as someone socially superior to me on the general scale. Someone who would be in the "other" Sunday School class. Not the class I'm in with the absolutely wonderful quirky smart people. A bit of snobbery on my own part I guess. He was trying to prove his geek credentials, and I was pointing out that I was one of those people who could never ever manage to look well put together no matter what I wore. Something would always be sliding down, sticking out, unshined, or lacking in whatever magic pulled together people managed. He was trying to convince me that he was one of us. That he too ended up with his dinner on his shirt. That even though his shoes were always polished to a blinding glare, he was not at all polished himself.
And during that precise conversation, I became aware that his zipper was split open.
It was almost like fate. Do you think the supreme being wanted me to feel like I wasn't really so different from my therapist anyway?
(Does someone pass the geekometer test if they loved the original Star Trek but forgot the name of Kirk's old friend who gained telepathic powers when they attempted to pass outside the galaxy?)
Addendum: To be absolutely clear, I consider my own Sunday School class to be the most superior that has ever been assembled. So I suppose there is some snobbery on my part.
Posted by seldomseen on May 24, 2009, at 14:07:34
In reply to Re: A ramble » seldomseen, posted by Dinah on May 24, 2009, at 12:10:43
I don't know if the annual pap test is unneccesary or not - although I am usually opposed to mass screening because of false positives. Additionally, there are alternatives to the pap test now.
What I have a strong objection to is the fact that so many ob/gyn providers insist on the gynecological exam (including the Pap) prior to prescibing birth control. While there has been a few studies linking cervical cancer with *long term* birth control use, even those studies are far from conclusive.
I just don't like to be summarily subjected to anything invasive.
Seldom
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