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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on May 22, 2009, at 13:38:10
(In Treatment)
Posted by seldomseen on May 22, 2009, at 15:08:06
In reply to Oliver broke my heart, posted by Dinah on May 22, 2009, at 13:38:10
Yeah mine too - although its the parents that did most of the breaking in that scenario. I havent seen the final Oliver episode, so I dont know how it is all going to resolve, but I have a feeling that Oliver is going to leave with his mom, never to see Paul again.
So sad.
I also feel more than a little heart broken for Paul. I think he has been outgunned this season from the get go as far as his patients are concerned. He is easy not to like outside of the therapeutic frame, but I think he is a very interesting, very human character. I also find Gabriel Byrne to be so so very attractive. To the point that I evidentially bring it up in therapy so often that my therapist (who doesnt watch) finally asked what else has he been in?
Frankly, this whole season has ripped me up. I will be grateful when it is over, but like people cant look away from a train wreck, I am glued to the television watching.
Seldom
Posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2009, at 16:35:36
In reply to Re: Oliver broke my heart, posted by seldomseen on May 22, 2009, at 15:08:06
What is this show, station, what day what time as we record our shows is this the psychology one? Thanks Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on May 22, 2009, at 16:38:41
In reply to Re: Oliver broke my heart, posted by seldomseen on May 22, 2009, at 15:08:06
I think Oliver and his parents show why it's so hard to be a therapist. I'd be ready to slap them silly for not wanting their son, but a therapist has to work with them anyway. I found the same thing in my three days as a veterinary assistant. I can't imagine how vets manage to be even marginally polite to some of their patients' humans.
I haven't mentioned it to my therapist that often this season. I guess until now, I haven't identified with the clients as much. For a while there, I felt for Mia and her anger at Paul for leaving her. But somehow she lost me.
It probably says a lot about me and my relationship with my therapist that I identify most with Sophie and Oliver. :)
I don't much like Paul as a person, but I admired him as a therapist a lot this season. I've thought more than once that he's probably a much better therapist than mine is.
Posted by Dinah on May 22, 2009, at 16:40:12
In reply to Re: Oliver broke my heart » seldomseen, posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2009, at 16:35:36
In Treatment is on HBO. The season finales are this Sunday and Monday.
The first season was really good too. I liked how they did one show with one client each day of the week. It seemed more like real therapy.
Posted by Dinah on May 22, 2009, at 16:41:50
In reply to Re: Oliver broke my heart, posted by seldomseen on May 22, 2009, at 15:08:06
Gabriel Byrne is one of those people who remind me very much of my father, so I never could find him attractive.
Intensity has me running like a startled hare.
Posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2009, at 20:46:30
In reply to Re: Oliver broke my heart » Phillipa, posted by Dinah on May 22, 2009, at 16:40:12
Shoot we don't have that station. Oh well. Phillipa
Posted by Annierose on May 23, 2009, at 7:17:23
In reply to Oliver broke my heart, posted by Dinah on May 22, 2009, at 13:38:10
You know - I find Oliver's storyline the least believable (maybe I'm naive) ... but come on? Are parents really that selfish? Can a child be any more miserable?
I have an 11 year old son - who didn't have a great school year as far as the other kids. So you would think I would identify with Oliver. Instead, I got so frustrated by his parent's attitude and Oliver's lack of inner fight. The part that made me sad was that Oliver will be losing Paul as his therapist - - - the one person that is actually listening to him.
My son was getting ready for bed last Monday while I was watching the show. He stayed and watched a little and announced, "I'm going to be nicer to Paul this week (his therapist's name is Paul too). And guess what - he came out of his session with a huge smile. I think for my son, he realized via a tv show how much the therapist works on the child's behalf.
Sorry for the ramble ---
Posted by Dinah on May 23, 2009, at 10:25:47
In reply to Re: Oliver broke my heart, posted by Annierose on May 23, 2009, at 7:17:23
That is so great about your son! I'm more likely to get mad at Paul, and bring my anger and suspicion to my therapist.
Sadly, I found that segment pretty realistic. I remember being a middle schooler whose home life was turned upside down to a lesser degree than Oliver's, and who was being picked on in school. My reactions weren't necessarily all that helpful to me. Nor did they make much sense to anyone else.
I think Oliver knew all along what Paul probably suspected but that the viewer might not have totally understood until the latest episode. Neither of his parents loved him for who he was.
I have more respect for the Dad. He did want Oliver, I think. But he thought once he got the boy into his own hands, his methods would turn Oliver into someone else. Someone more like him. He realized that wouldn't happen. That Oliver would never be tough, like he was. And he realized that Oliver wasn't really safe with him. That even if he wanted Oliver to live with him, he'd end up being physically abusive. I think it was pretty responsible of him to refuse to allow that danger to exist.
The mother is the one I feel disgust for. She knew that about the dad too, hence her original concerns. But Oliver lost his value as a pawn once the father made it clear he was dating others and was not coming back. And when Oliver started to be ok with staying with his dad, and no longer triangulated with her against his dad, she probably started resenting and hating him. I don't think she ever much liked Oliver either, but if he'd stayed her little boy who loved her not his dad, she might have loved him because he would have reflected her vision of herself back to her eyes.
Neither of his parents are self aware enough even to consider these things. Denial and avoidance is huge on both sides.
He got his taste of being liked and cared for from Paul. And it's clear that it was genuine on Paul's side. Oliver wasn't a number, or one of many patients that he pretended to care about. Paul said early on he wishes he could adopt Oliver. He felt tenderness and protectiveness towards Oliver.
It's too bad that Oliver couldn't have stayed where he was so that Paul could continue to be that one adult he felt safe and nurtured with.
But of course, Paul can't take him into his home. Even if Oliver's parents were ok with it. Oliver is surely not the first child Paul has felt this way about. So Oliver is rejected by everyone. And he really is. He's not imagining it. His mother says "Are you asking me to give up everything I care about?" Paul wouldn't take him in even if he could. His total loss is real, not imaginary, and if I were him I'd be sure never to let anyone get that close to me again.
Oliver is lacking in outer fight, but I'm not sure he's lacking in inner fight. In his own mind, he's doing what he needs to do to get what he needs and to survive. It may not be logical or sensible, any more than what I did was logical or sensible.
I wish I could adopt Oliver. :(
The funny thing is that Oliver is likely right. He'd have been better off not ever seeing Paul. His instincts were right on. In order to survive in that nutty environment, he needed to triangulate with Mom against Dad. He probably never thought about it, and he'd never experienced real caring. Paul changed the dynamic in a way that would be healthy if his parents weren't who they were. But probably weren't in Oliver's best interests given the actual circumstances.
Posted by Dinah on May 23, 2009, at 10:48:12
In reply to Re: Oliver broke my heart (Spoilers) » Annierose, posted by Dinah on May 23, 2009, at 10:25:47
Actually, the mother's reaction might have been pretty normal as an initial reaction. She felt like she'd given up her dreams to take care of Oliver and a selfish angry man. When Oliver decided he wanted to spend time with his dad, and Paul said she was using Oliver as an excuse not to fulfill her own dreams, it is probably pretty normal to think something like "They're so ungrateful. I give and give, and they resent me for it, and tell me I'm using my son as an excuse. Well, let's see how they like it when I stop giving. I'm going to follow my own dreams for a while, and leave those two ungrateful males to manage on their own."
But more compassionate and sensible women would then acknowledge that they didn't do what they did to get gratitude. And that it would be irresponsible to chuck it all and move to Tahiti.
I don't think I judge her more harshly because she's a woman. I'd judge a man who wanted to leave his kids with a potentially abusive wife so he could escape pretty harshly too.
Posted by rskontos on May 23, 2009, at 18:06:40
In reply to Re: Oliver broke my heart (Spoilers), posted by Dinah on May 23, 2009, at 10:48:12
I could identity with both sides. I have felt like Oliver with no one to really care when you are a child.
It is a shame he doesn't have some loving grandparents that would take him in and try to undo the harm being done to him. Save him from both parents.
rsk
Posted by Dinah on May 23, 2009, at 23:59:24
In reply to Re: Oliver broke my heart (Spoilers), posted by rskontos on May 23, 2009, at 18:06:40
Yes, I think that would be the best solution. Or a loving aunt or uncle.
Unless his parents come to their senses before next week. And keep their senses.
Posted by Dinah on May 24, 2009, at 12:22:55
In reply to Re: Oliver broke my heart (Spoilers) » rskontos, posted by Dinah on May 23, 2009, at 23:59:24
Of course, I felt sorry for myself as well as Oliver. Because what Oliver experienced with Paul was what all of us experience with our therapists every day.
They truly do care about us. They want the best for us, hurt for us, and maybe even love us. But we are not and will never be part of their own lives.
Posted by Annierose on May 24, 2009, at 15:11:58
In reply to Re: Oliver broke my heart (Spoilers) » Annierose, posted by Dinah on May 23, 2009, at 10:25:47
I guess I didn't find Oliver very likeable --- as harsh as that sounds. And his parents were so selfish --- it's a mess.
I think back to Sophia last season --- she was so likeable.
This season is was too short. We had more episodes last year. I wish HBO would make the season at least a little longer.
Posted by Dinah on May 24, 2009, at 21:01:53
In reply to Re: Oliver broke my heart (Spoilers) » Dinah, posted by Annierose on May 24, 2009, at 15:11:58
I definitely found Sophie appealing. And perhaps Oliver wasn't as appealing. Maybe that's part of the story, and a genius piece of casting. :)
Appealing or not, I did like him. He reminded me a lot of me.
I didn't much care for Walter. I kept expecting him to play Mr. Crane, and I found that distracting. I liked his daughter though.
I didn't like the format of this season nearly as much as last. Having one episode a day really made it feel like therapy. And definitely it's shorter.
The Israeli version had Oliver being the son of that couple from the first season. Did they have a kid? I can see where that would have worked just fine.
Posted by Annierose on May 25, 2009, at 8:14:30
In reply to Re: Oliver broke my heart (Spoilers) » Annierose, posted by Dinah on May 24, 2009, at 21:01:53
Yes, they had a son. The dad was a stay-at-home father and occasionally the boy would call during session. They probably could not have continued that story line as Paul moved to Brooklyn.
OMG -wasn't last night GREAT!!! I loved both sessions and both endings (even though they ended the season just as I was getting to know the clients). Paul was at his best. Mia's session was probably at least two months of therapy in one session --- all the insights/connections --- too much in one session --- but I loved it!
Without a doubt, the sessions with Gina are the best.
Posted by Dinah on May 25, 2009, at 13:44:57
In reply to Re: Oliver broke my heart (Spoilers) » Dinah, posted by Annierose on May 25, 2009, at 8:14:30
Paul really was at his best. Last week when Gina sent him back to be with his patients, I wasn't sure which way they were going to go with it. Now it's clear they're going with redemption.
I love how he handled the two "endings" differently because they were two different types of endings. I love how April brought up Sophie and mentioned that his empty little page was no longer empty.
I thought it was slightly improbable that Mia was suddenly open to Paul's insights, although I suppose it was at least partially because she really wasn't ready to move on. Paul *is* great at insight, but a poorly timed insight is worse than useless. And April suddenly seemed so mature and centered. I'd love for my termination session to be like hers. It won't be. I'm not that mature or centered, and never will be.
If the theme continues, I wonder how they will handle Oliver tonight.
Posted by Daisym on May 26, 2009, at 22:37:40
In reply to Re: Oliver broke my heart (Spoilers) » Annierose, posted by Dinah on May 25, 2009, at 13:44:57
I'm having a weird reaction to Oliver's ending. I think I want to reduce my sessions so that I don't get hurt by some sudden, unexpected termination.
Sheesh.
It's only a TV program! (repeat 12 times)
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2009, at 0:15:47
In reply to Re: Oliver broke my heart (Spoilers), posted by Daisym on May 26, 2009, at 22:37:40
I've had the same reaction.
I talked to my therapist about it today. About how I identified with Oliver so much, with the triangulation with his parents, and the being picked on.
And about how upsetting the situation with Paul was to me, and the feelings it brought up in me about therapy.
But my therapist was not, to put it kindly, at his best today. He was having trouble maintaining focus on what I was saying, by his own admission. So it didn't really go far.
Still, didn't it make you want to cry in a good way when Paul called his cell phone? I wish my therapist was that smart.
(Of course, at least half of my desire to quit comes from my therapist's continuing difficulty in staying awake when he's with me. With the other half coming from the feelings Oliver stirred up.)
Posted by seldomseen on May 27, 2009, at 21:46:03
In reply to Re: Oliver broke my heart (Spoilers) » Daisym, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2009, at 0:15:47
I'm sure my therapist is too. He actually admitted today that it would be a show he might consider watching.
I was glad they made a reference to Sophie. I really liked that little character, and I'm happy she's doing well in TV land.
Seldom.
Posted by Daisym on May 28, 2009, at 0:59:40
In reply to Well, I'm just relieved it's over » Dinah, posted by seldomseen on May 27, 2009, at 21:46:03
from what i'm reading all over the internet, this show has stirred up therapists as much as patients. My therapist knew what i was talking about when I mentioned it but didn't admit to watching it.
The patient pushing my buttons this season is actually Mia. I felt, in some ways, like someone had been spying on my sessions, especially when Paul's dad died. It was a very bad feeling and made me feel like even more of a therapy cliche.
Posted by Annierose on May 28, 2009, at 14:13:18
In reply to Re: Well, I'm just relieved it's over » seldomseen, posted by Daisym on May 28, 2009, at 0:59:40
I'm sad to see the series end. And if it comes back for a third season, I suppose it will be without my favorite character, Gina. Those sessions always had me glued to my seat. The more I think about it, although the content of my sessions are completely different, I feel like the gest of their relationship felt most like my therapist and me (me being Paul ... the angry, combative, confused client).
I think the writers did a remarkable job in how they ended each storyline.
This is the end of the thread.
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