![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jayy on May 22, 2009, at 12:47:39
Hi everyone,
Last week I had my first appointment with a new Psychiatrist at a mental health unit of a hospital.The Dr read my previous records, heard my whole story and current treatment I receive: I've been going to the same state run "Guidance center" since 1995 and am still a complete shut in and in the exact same mental hell as I was then... but much worse since I'm almost 15 years older and my life has gone nowhere due to mental illness and no help from the useless place that I've wasted 15 years at.
So he said that he thinks I'm "Bipolar 2" (which I knew/suspected I was but my current shrink doesn't even know what that is) in addition to severe depression, anxiety and social phobia. Thinks I need Lithium and etc...Ok, so he then says that it wouldn't be beneficial at all for me to see him once a week for 45 minutes, and he suggested I be hospitalized so they could more closely monitor medications and diagnose me and whatever else he said. I refused that.
So he suggested I attend their "Intensive Outpatient Program" which (as he explained) would be Mon-Fri 8am- 1pm for 5-6 weeks (or less depending on certain things).
From what I understood from him I was under the impression that I would be seeing him daily for intensive psychiatric talk in addition to other therapy and also group therapy.Well this morning I got a call from the woman who runs this program and now it all sounds very different: According to her it's ALL group therapy, all day, where they discuss anger management techniques and coping w/ anxiety and things of this nature.
She said that I'd only see the Psychiatrist once a week I believe for 15 minutes!!!!! She MAY have said 45 minutes, but I'm pretty sure it was 15 minutes and then once the program was over I could go to the regular counseling center and see him I believe twice a month. It also could have been once a month... a lot of info at once overwhelms me and is hard to recall, but I know I didn't like what I was hearing.
I can see where it will be beneficial, I suppose, to be in group therapy with other people who share my severe issues and can relate... but I have severe anxiety and social phobia and the idea of sitting with 20 or 25 (yes, that many) other people and being expected to talk about my most humiliating thoughts is overwhelming.
I also don't understand how this is supposed to help me. According to that woman (basically): If I had a phobia of riding elevators then exposing myself to them would desensitize me to that fear (you know... that whole routine).
Yes, fine. But I have severe mental issues, not a ridiculous elevator phobia: What about the fact that I have such severe body insecurities/anxiety to the extent where I haven't been able to have sex or any type of intimate relationship since around 1994??
I've always had that issue... I used to actually "work" as a (gay) male escort before 1994 because getting paid stupid amounts of money by men in exchange for me basically doing nothing but getting serviced and complimented by them was the only thing that ever made me feel attractive.And those were guys who I never would have chosen to be with... so when it came to guys I was attracted to I was unable to even speak to them, never mind sex or any relationship. And now it's much worse since, again, I'm older and feel waaay worse about myself than ever.
So how is countless hours of group therapy supposed to help me w/ that? I don't see how it possibly can.
I have other severe fears/anxieties as well which have kept me completely isolated from all of society for almost 15 years and I just don't see how group therapy is supposed to help me.I hate to sound selfish, but I really don't care to go hear about other peoples problems... I need it to be about me.
And I don't know if it's just my paranoia/mental illness talking or not but I'm very afraid that they're just trying to get me into the program for as long as possible in order to get as much money out of my "insurance"/medicare/medicaid as they can.
Anyway, I agreed to do it starting Thurs, 5/28. I really have no other choice or better opportunity due to many reasons but I'm so afraid it's going to be a huge disappointment.
I really can't handle another useless mental health experience. In addition to the 15 years wasted at the guidance center I also saw a private Psychologist from 5/07 - 1/08. That's another topic, but believe me when I say that this guy was detrimental and left me in worse mental condition than when I started seeing him.
He would have his license taken away for extremely unethical behavior and be charged (or fined AGAIN) for fraudulent billing had I reported him (but like the mental case I am I felt and still feel extreme guilt over confronting him over everything and wouldn't want to ruin his life so I would never report him).Sorry for all the "babbling"...
If you've ever been to one of these type of Intensive Outpatient programs can you please tell me about it and if/how it helped you? Am I just being negative/paranoid? Is it possible that this type of group program can help me with my specific issues in your opinion?
Thanks for any info or opinions you may have :O)
Posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2009, at 13:03:52
In reply to Ever Been In An 'Intensive Outpatient Program'??, posted by Jayy on May 22, 2009, at 12:47:39
Two topics in one might want to post on meds also. Know fear and seriously could be good for you. Sounds like you're very debilitated in ability to go out at all. How do you get to your doc appointments? Phillipa
Posted by Jayy on May 22, 2009, at 14:06:24
In reply to Re: Ever Been In An 'Intensive Outpatient Program'?? » Jayy, posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2009, at 13:03:52
> Two topics in one might want to post on meds also. Know fear and seriously could be good for you. Sounds like you're very debilitated in ability to go out at all. How do you get to your doc appointments? Phillipa
Thanks for the quick reply Phillipa,
And thanks, I'll trust your opinion and I do hope it will be good.
Yes, you're right, I rarely ever go out and only when I absolutely have to. Luckily I've been living w/ my friend for all these years (who evidently is also a mental case as he's living w/ me, but a "normal" functioning one in society) and I either borrow his car or he drives me to the Dr or whatnot. Yes, it's all unusual and crazy but it is what is.And the woman I see at the place I've been going to is actually a nurse practitioner... she knows it's an ordeal for me to get there so she conveniently allows me to see her once every three months!
She should insist that I see her at least every month as she knows everything about me and knows I'm in mental hell and I tell her frequently of my suicide plans... but she's also the same woman who somehow screwed up one day last year and doubled my RX of Klonopin from .5 milligrams 3x a day to 1 milligram 3x a day.
I thought it may have been the pharmacy's error but when I next saw her she gave me the double amount again so evidently she had written it down in my chart and never noticed that she screwed it up.
She's very nice but I found this to be an outrageous mistake. Of course I'm not going to tell her this, but I never even took the .5 milligrams 3x a day, I took less and sometimes more depending on how I felt. Now I have ridiculous left over amounts of the 1 milligrams which I save along with the bottles of ambien that I rarely take any of yet she prescribes.There's no renewal allowed on the Klonopin so she/the receptionist conveniently mails me a new prescription on the two month that I don't see her.
So, not only is she giving me enough meds to kill a horse with, but she's also mailing some of them to me (in RX form).
Posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2009, at 20:43:14
In reply to Re: Ever Been In An 'Intensive Outpatient Program', posted by Jayy on May 22, 2009, at 14:06:24
If you think you could be suicidal could you let your friend keep the meds so you will be safe. Are you at all impulsive and shame on that doc!!!! Phillipa
Posted by softheprairie on May 23, 2009, at 5:33:42
In reply to Ever Been In An 'Intensive Outpatient Program'??, posted by Jayy on May 22, 2009, at 12:47:39
I was highly disappointed in both inpatient hospitalization and the day hospitalization programs in terms of time with actual one-on-one therapy (you know, someone with an actual graduate degree and license, not a para or tech, and *in private*) and time with prescribers. I soon tried another local alternative, which is "residential" and run by the locally-designated communty mental health center, which was a worse farce, (I could hardly believe it) and not hospitalization at all, but a "hospital alternative," that is not run on the medical model, but supposedly on the psycho-social model, and which featured zero individual therapy from a professional (for me, at least) and zero prescribers on-site, but was mainly a temorary holding site.
Even with all that said, you could give it a try for a day or two, and if it's too foul you can stop.
Posted by Jayy on May 23, 2009, at 9:22:06
In reply to Re: Ever Been In An 'Intensive Outpatient Program' » Jayy, posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2009, at 20:43:14
> If you think you could be suicidal could you let your friend keep the meds so you will be safe. Are you at all impulsive and shame on that doc!!!! Phillipa
Thanks Phillipa,
One of the problems is that I'm not impulsive... I'm very calculating and plan my suicide to every minor detail for when the time is "right"/when I just can't tolerate "living" anymore. I've told this woman many times and her responses are just sickening. She stupidly doubled my Klonopin... I can't get over that.
Posted by Jayy on May 23, 2009, at 10:06:27
In reply to Re: Ever Been In An 'Intensive Outpatient Program'??, posted by softheprairie on May 23, 2009, at 5:33:42
> I was highly disappointed in both inpatient hospitalization and the day hospitalization programs in terms of time with actual one-on-one therapy (you know, someone with an actual graduate degree and license, not a para or tech, and *in private*) and time with prescribers. I soon tried another local alternative, which is "residential" and run by the locally-designated communty mental health center, which was a worse farce, (I could hardly believe it) and not hospitalization at all, but a "hospital alternative," that is not run on the medical model, but supposedly on the psycho-social model, and which featured zero individual therapy from a professional (for me, at least) and zero prescribers on-site, but was mainly a temorary holding site.
>
> Even with all that said, you could give it a try for a day or two, and if it's too foul you can stop.And thanks to you too Prairie,
That all sounds very horrible, honestly. What you explained sounds very similar to what I did. I'm definitely going to try it, I have no other choice at this point.But what did you end up doing after those experiences? Were you able to find any decent help at a better place? I hope so. Isn't it just so devastating and so disappointing and frustrating to need actual help and yet get essentially nothing???
The way the woman described it does sound very similar to what you've explained and I now feel even more convinced that I was lied to and deceived just to get me into the program.
Maybe they get paid extra $$ since they can milk every dime out out of medicaid& medicare? Maybe they need people in their program to meet a certain quota? I really don't know.
What I do know is that on Wed 5/20 I saw the Psychiatrist there and he said it would not be beneficial for me to see him once a month and see a talk therapist/psychologist (if I was lucky to get a psychologist) only weekly and so forth and so on:
He asked when my last physical was (ahhh, never) so he tells me that they'll do all of that at the program place too... check my blood to see if there's a thyroid problem, etc...
It all sounded too good to be true, and then this woman tells me that I won't be seen for any individual therapy and just the occasional short Psychiatric visit.
I feel very deceived and went from very excited and hopeful after talking the the P Doc to extreme disappointment after talking to the program woman.
I don't even know what she is... she may have said social worker but I don't recall.
When and where does the medication come in??
I have suspected I was "Bipolar 2" for several years, so then this new guy just told me he thinks that's indeed what I am (without me even mentioning it first) so I was thrilled to see that he was capable of noticing it.I'm already almost furious at the thought of going to this place and sitting there in major anxiety, sweating to death, and having some woman conduct 20-25 people in some 5 hour long babble session.
I believe she said each person gets an entire 10 whole minutes to talk about themselves and then the rest of the people discuss.
Oh great... so yes, I'll perhaps be able relate to a bunch of other patients in certain ways...
But again, that does me no good in "fixing" my severe mental issues that I need individual attention for.And I'm supposed to go there without even being properly medicated first?? I explained to the P Doc that I have major rage issues... I fear I will end up blowing up at someone there if it turns out to be quite a farce, like you said yours was.
She also said that no (or most) private therapists would agree to see a patient more than once a week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT????????????????????????????
Please... I've never heard of such nonsense. If you have the $$ they'll see you all week.I'm a huge Howard Stern fan, listen to him daily and know that he's been seeing his shrink 3x a week for years.
You really do get what you pay for (or what you can't afford to pay for).
Posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2009, at 20:00:50
In reply to Re: Ever Been In An 'Intensive Outpatient Program', posted by Jayy on May 23, 2009, at 10:06:27
What do you mean go there unmedicated? And now a new diagnosis of bipolar 2? Well if you blow up maybe that would result in inpatient treatment. Give it a try could work for you. For me hearing others stories kind of makes me feel better if their's is worse. But I'm confused why the doubling of klonopin???? Phillipa
Posted by softheprairie on May 24, 2009, at 2:25:08
In reply to Re: Ever Been In An 'Intensive Outpatient Program', posted by Jayy on May 23, 2009, at 10:06:27
> >
> But what did you end up doing after those experiences? Were you able to find any decent help at a better place? I hope so.Went back home, then back to my psychiatrist who does both meds and therapy w/ me, but it still didn't help that much. I especially needed professional help at home to deal w/ my hoarding that was out of control and I had lots of vermin taking over. I was not able to locate any free or affordable help. My psychiatrist recommended a woman who had experience going to people's homes working w/ this condition, but she didn't have a graduate degree/therapist license, so she can only hold herself out to be a mental health case manager (and licensed mental health technician, which she also is). So, my insurance wouldn't cover her. My mother paid her privately.
It made a huge difference in my life, even though extremely anxiety- and meltdown-producing on a regualr basis when she was here, but we had to taper down and then discontinue because it was too expensive for us to continue. My clutter has started heading back into the pathological, but I just live with it alone for now. (I have other psychiatric problems in addition to that.)
My mom has continued to take from her savings to keep me privately insured under COBRA w/ the plan of my former employer until I can get Medicare (I am on disability), but I have to pay the co-pays and deductibles. My psychiatrist recommends that I see him more, but I can't afford to in terms of co-pays, and I've said that, and he hasn't offered any cost reduction.
It's all so complicated. I tried out being a client of "case management" from the local community mental health center, which "treated" me for a reasonable fee as a poor person, but the case mgr. wouldn't come into my house, which was what I was needing the assistance with. She would only do things out in public like go walking with me or feeding the ducks bread at the park. So, I discontinued that after about a month of meeting about weekly.
Isn't it just so devastating and so disappointing and frustrating to need actual help and yet get essentially nothing???
>Yes, absolutely. You hit the nail on the head. My ongoing money woes are a big part of my depression, and when I was in the waiting period before recieving SSDI was when I was hospitalized, when my thoughts of suicide were so abundant, and I just felt like such a burden to my mother. :(
But, I had a turn for the better aroud a year after that, where other meds seemed to click and do better, or maybe my brain made some changes I don't understand, but, anyways, I'm still struggling all the time, but it's better than the time where suicide was on my mind a lot and I was crying all the time.
Oh, I also wanted to mention that I tried Vocational Rehabilitation, and it didn't work out for me, but I was advised to apply again with them after I am more stable med-wise (and not breaking down crying at every interaction with then), and I am thinking of trying again. They sometimes pay for some mental health treatment, although I read through an online manual of how my state's operates, and it looks like they only pay at the state's (inadequate) Medicaid rate, so if you already have Medicare plus Medicaid, it may not be anything additional. You could call them and ask, though, if you're wanting to end up with employment. And, here's a tidbit I bet not too many people know: each state has a legally-required disability rights center (they go by different names) that take on cases in the interests of disabled folks, sometimes against inadequate service at the community mental health center, and also sometimes suing to make Voc. Rehab. cover more things. You can look up the one in your state.
Posted by jouezmoi on May 24, 2009, at 9:16:49
In reply to Ever Been In An 'Intensive Outpatient Program'??, posted by Jayy on May 22, 2009, at 12:47:39
Dear Javy,
I have read your post ... twice. What amazes me is that you seem to be very intelligent, very lucid and very coherent. That is a very good sign. I do not think that you are bi-polar 2, and I do not think that long term medication is going to do you any good. I also do not think that you have thyroid problems, or that group therapy will work for you. I also agree with your feeling that this would be another disappointment and waste of time.
I think you are carry a very deep psychological wound dating back to prior to 1994. That trauma in there has resulted in behaviour that, instead of relieving the problem, has exacerbated it - adding more trauma upon the original one. I say this because you are describing situations to which I can relate. It may not be the same circumstances but the pain and the effects are very similar.
Unless you can find someone competent at "exorcising" that pain using various techniques (not just talk, but EMDR or neurofeedback ... something that also addresses the physiological impact of this trauma), I do not expect you will get the relief you need. If you do go on medication, it should be to control the effect of addressing and releasing that trauma, which in itself can be painful as well.
Hospitalisation may be a good option, because then you can be aggressively treated, but only if that treatment involves individual daily therapy first, and medication only to manage the psychological effects of therapy. Can you find out what other programs may be out there? Are you limited to that hospital only?
Posted by Jayy on May 24, 2009, at 18:02:25
In reply to Re: Ever Been In An 'Intensive Outpatient Program' » Jayy, posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2009, at 20:00:50
> What do you mean go there unmedicated? And now a new diagnosis of bipolar 2? Well if you blow up maybe that would result in inpatient treatment. Give it a try could work for you. For me hearing others stories kind of makes me feel better if their's is worse. But I'm confused why the doubling of klonopin???? Phillipa
Hi Phillipa,
Well I am on meds now, but what I meant was that the Psych. who I just saw (and who said I was BP 2) didn't write me a prescription for anything (despite saying what he thinks I should take, and saying that the Wellbutrin I currently take is probably making my anxiety worse).I have no clue when I'll be seeing him so he's just sending me into a group next Thurs (I should have said) without being 'properly medicated' first.
This woman (who runs the program) was talking about how they discuss anger management skills and whatnot: Well that's all great, but if I was properly medicated I wouldn't have extreme rage... so why would I need anger management class/skills?It doesn't make sense.
The Klonopin doubling incident was from the current nurse practitioner I see (and have been seeing for years). On one visit to her she somehow screwed up and wrote me an RX for double the amount of Klonopin I had been getting for several years. I never told her and she never noticed her mistake.
I have no idea how she could have made such a mistake. On one hand it's understandable as she's only human, but on the other hand it's a potentially deadly mistake which she obviously should not be making.
And if softheprairie and jouezmoi are reading this I just wanted to say thanks for your replies and I'll reply to your posts a little later...
It's FOX cartoon night and I'm sure everyone here will be glued to their TV's watching along with me! :O)
Posted by Phillipa on May 24, 2009, at 20:02:53
In reply to Re: Ever Been In An 'Intensive Outpatient Program', posted by Jayy on May 24, 2009, at 18:02:25
Understand now and apoligize if my post sounded harsh. Make any decisions? Going? Phillipa
Posted by jouezmoi on May 25, 2009, at 5:55:01
In reply to Re: Ever Been In An 'Intensive Outpatient Program', posted by Jayy on May 24, 2009, at 18:02:25
Javy, the psychiatrist may be correct. Wellbutrin does increase anxiety inpersons with anxiety disorder. It nearly sent me into psychosis.
Posted by Jayy on May 25, 2009, at 16:05:43
In reply to Re: Ever Been In An 'Intensive Outpatient Program' » Jayy, posted by softheprairie on May 24, 2009, at 2:25:08
Howdy Prairie,
That's great that you have your moms support. I'm sure this is easy to say as I obviously don't know you or her, but I imagine that your mother doesnt look at you as a burden at all.
Do you know how long you have to wait until you can get the Medicare? I thought that would automatically come with the disability?
I've seen hoarders on several TV shows and it doesn't look fun to experience. :O( I dont hoard, but I can imagine the mental hell it must be to feel compelled to save so much and the anxiety of trying to get things in order... and where to even begin. It just sounds like mental torment, which is always horrible in any form.
That's so nice of your Psychiatrist to recommend that you see him more despite knowing that you cant afford to do so. Offer to reduce your co payments/give you any type of discount?? Of course not... you'd like to think that mental health professionals actually care more about helping people than pocketing every possible dime that they can, but it never seems to be that way.
The last freak I saw (the Psychologist that wasted 8 months of my life on himself) agreed to see me because he accepted Medicare but instead of charging me a co payment he just fraudulently charged Medicare for two 70 minute sessions each week, when I only saw him once a week for an hour.
At first I thought "Oh, what a nice guy he is to do that since he knows I cant afford his co payment... he must really care." But then after getting to know him and seeing his huge luxurious house with the huge built in pool in the shape of a lake, his own tennis courts, several luxury cars, etc, etc... I was thinking "You're a disgusting penny pinching lying thief fraud who only gives a f**k about money and yourself."
Yeah... I dont think walking with you and/or feeding the ducks sounds very helpful at all. I would not have been thrilled with that either. But I see that you then later did have a little turn around. :O) I'm glad that you're feeling somewhat better now... I do hope you find yourself someone helpful though.
And thanks for the info on the vocational rehab program/legal info on that: It's a topic that horrifies me though. I havent had a job in around 18 years, I'm probably qualified for nothing and I could not possibly imagine being viewed as the 40 year old freak working at MacDonald's (or similar) with a bunch of teenagers. I need to be able to feel some small bit of dignity if I'm to ever be in a job around others and I dont know how that will ever work out.
> > >
> > But what did you end up doing after those experiences? Were you able to find any decent help at a better place? I hope so.
>
> Went back home, then back to my psychiatrist who does both meds and therapy w/ me, but it still didn't help that much. I especially needed professional help at home to deal w/ my hoarding that was out of control and I had lots of vermin taking over. I was not able to locate any free or affordable help. My psychiatrist recommended a woman who had experience going to people's homes working w/ this condition, but she didn't have a graduate degree/therapist license, so she can only hold herself out to be a mental health case manager (and licensed mental health technician, which she also is). So, my insurance wouldn't cover her. My mother paid her privately.
> It made a huge difference in my life, even though extremely anxiety- and meltdown-producing on a regualr basis when she was here, but we had to taper down and then discontinue because it was too expensive for us to continue. My clutter has started heading back into the pathological, but I just live with it alone for now. (I have other psychiatric problems in addition to that.)
> My mom has continued to take from her savings to keep me privately insured under COBRA w/ the plan of my former employer until I can get Medicare (I am on disability), but I have to pay the co-pays and deductibles. My psychiatrist recommends that I see him more, but I can't afford to in terms of co-pays, and I've said that, and he hasn't offered any cost reduction.
> It's all so complicated. I tried out being a client of "case management" from the local community mental health center, which "treated" me for a reasonable fee as a poor person, but the case mgr. wouldn't come into my house, which was what I was needing the assistance with. She would only do things out in public like go walking with me or feeding the ducks bread at the park. So, I discontinued that after about a month of meeting about weekly.
>
>
>
>
> Isn't it just so devastating and so disappointing and frustrating to need actual help and yet get essentially nothing???
> >
>
> Yes, absolutely. You hit the nail on the head. My ongoing money woes are a big part of my depression, and when I was in the waiting period before recieving SSDI was when I was hospitalized, when my thoughts of suicide were so abundant, and I just felt like such a burden to my mother. :(
>
> But, I had a turn for the better aroud a year after that, where other meds seemed to click and do better, or maybe my brain made some changes I don't understand, but, anyways, I'm still struggling all the time, but it's better than the time where suicide was on my mind a lot and I was crying all the time.
>
> Oh, I also wanted to mention that I tried Vocational Rehabilitation, and it didn't work out for me, but I was advised to apply again with them after I am more stable med-wise (and not breaking down crying at every interaction with then), and I am thinking of trying again. They sometimes pay for some mental health treatment, although I read through an online manual of how my state's operates, and it looks like they only pay at the state's (inadequate) Medicaid rate, so if you already have Medicare plus Medicaid, it may not be anything additional. You could call them and ask, though, if you're wanting to end up with employment. And, here's a tidbit I bet not too many people know: each state has a legally-required disability rights center (they go by different names) that take on cases in the interests of disabled folks, sometimes against inadequate service at the community mental health center, and also sometimes suing to make Voc. Rehab. cover more things. You can look up the one in your state.
>
>
Posted by Jayy on May 25, 2009, at 17:00:32
In reply to Re: Ever Been In An 'Intensive Outpatient Program'??, posted by jouezmoi on May 24, 2009, at 9:16:49
And Howdy to you Jouezmai,
Thanks! :O) I am always lucid and coherent... OK, and I'm not a dummy usually. :O)
Yes, I guess those are good signs, but honestly I really dont know if they would be signs of bi polar 2 (o r of not having it).
I "diagnosed" myself with it after reading info such as on here http://www.psycheducation.org/depression/02_diagnosis.html and also after somehow discovering this other message board ( http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=4cb04dd6b44449399bebecc32dd0129e )Apparently that Stephen Fry is some British actor... I have no clue who he is but I somewhere read about him and then saw his board where I seem to relate to so many of the people and their issues.
But again, I don't know for sure what I have: I was under the impression that the new Psych. I went to would be further testing me b4 he made an official diagnosis, but according to the woman who runs that program he already has me diagnosed.
You also could be right about a trauma back in 94... I'd love to be able to discuss it (and everything) at length with a shrink but I dont see that happening any time soon.
I would never go into a hospital (unless I was in enough physical pain). Not only could I not handle being locked up with strangers for that long, but I also have a variety of "weird" issues: Such as I could never use a disgusting public toilet (I dont care how clean it may appear... it's been used by countless people). I'm pretty much a vegan and literally can't stomach eating if there's something dead and repulsive nearby that I can see and smell. I couldn't stand to eat or be around unhygienic people... I couldnt use a strange shower... I have to brush my teeth in the shower and I couldnt do that in a gross hospital shower... the sink would be worse.
The list is endless... I dont know you would call all that, but I have all kinds of issues like that.As far as other programs go, I dont have many options. There are other hospitals but none that are easily accessible or that I'd be able to get to. The one that I've been talking about (it's actually a separate building not even located in the hospital) is just a few towns away. My friend who live with is supposedly going to be lending me his car to get back and forth to this place but that would mean that he'll have to take the train to work every day which would be a huge expense (from LI to NYC everyday, then a subway and then a van to NJ where he actually works).
I know he's going to screw me over before Thursday and I'm going to end up having to walk to the train station, taking the train two towns over and then walking to the place from there.
I wouldnt mind that so much but it's almost June and I wear nothing less than jeans, sneakers, shirt (with a button down shirt over that or wind breaker type jacket to disguise my fat and physical "deformity" which I dont believe I mentioned b4... or maybe I did, I don't recall).
All that combined with the anxiety makes me sweat and unimaginably hot. I despise the summer and dread ever leaving the house in the heat... and there's no way I'll be dealing with heat stroke and sweating like a pig every day.I don't what's gonna happen: I'm supposed to start this place at 8am on Thursday: They already have my records transferred over from the guidance center I've been at for years. I have no clue when I'm supposed to see the new Psychiatrist and I still have an appointment for Tues 6/2 with the nurse practitioner at the guidance center.
It's all so ridiculous and disorganized...
> Dear Javy,
>
> I have read your post ... twice. What amazes me is that you seem to be very intelligent, very lucid and very coherent. That is a very good sign. I do not think that you are bi-polar 2, and I do not think that long term medication is going to do you any good. I also do not think that you have thyroid problems, or that group therapy will work for you. I also agree with your feeling that this would be another disappointment and waste of time.
>
> I think you are carry a very deep psychological wound dating back to prior to 1994. That trauma in there has resulted in behaviour that, instead of relieving the problem, has exacerbated it - adding more trauma upon the original one. I say this because you are describing situations to which I can relate. It may not be the same circumstances but the pain and the effects are very similar.
>
> Unless you can find someone competent at "exorcising" that pain using various techniques (not just talk, but EMDR or neurofeedback ... something that also addresses the physiological impact of this trauma), I do not expect you will get the relief you need. If you do go on medication, it should be to control the effect of addressing and releasing that trauma, which in itself can be painful as well.
>
> Hospitalisation may be a good option, because then you can be aggressively treated, but only if that treatment involves individual daily therapy first, and medication only to manage the psychological effects of therapy. Can you find out what other programs may be out there? Are you limited to that hospital only?
Posted by Jayy on May 25, 2009, at 17:04:08
In reply to Re: Ever Been In An 'Intensive Outpatient Program' » Jayy, posted by Phillipa on May 24, 2009, at 20:02:53
No problem, you didn't sound harsh at all... just curious. :O)
Yes, I gonna try it. I don't know for how long... but I'll definitely try it. Maybe everything will work out beautifully (I'm not holding my breath though).
> Understand now and apoligize if my post sounded harsh. Make any decisions? Going? Phillipa
Posted by Jayy on May 25, 2009, at 17:16:03
In reply to Re: Ever Been In An 'Intensive Outpatient Program', posted by jouezmoi on May 25, 2009, at 5:55:01
Huh... well I'm glad to hear that this guy may know what he's saying (sorry to hear about the effect it had on you though).
I'd love to know why he didn't just write me an RX for something else then... and I'd love to know if I'm now supposed to go back to my original place on Tues to again get an RX for the Wellbutrin if in fact it is making me worse.
They had me on Abilify for awhile... maybe for a year or so: It was one of the worst experiences ever. It caused my anxiety to multiply to a panic type feeling and also caused a painful physical chest anxiety (if that makes sense) that I didn't associate with the drug until I took myself off of it. THEN I was told that the Abilify indeed can and obviously was causing both of those problems.
I'm sure they only gave it to me because it was the popular drug at the time... pamphlets all over the waiting room. The more I think and write the more disgusted I get.
> Javy, the psychiatrist may be correct. Wellbutrin does increase anxiety inpersons with anxiety disorder. It nearly sent me into psychosis.
Posted by B2chica on May 28, 2009, at 12:44:58
In reply to Re: Ever Been In An 'Intensive Outpatient Program', posted by Jayy on May 25, 2009, at 17:16:03
i've been in an "outpatient" tx program from our hospital a few years ago for about two or three weeks, can't remember now.
ours was from 8:30-3:30. which made it equivalant to hospital treatment except that we could leave at the end of the day.
and wow 20-25?! yes i don't have SP and that would freak me out. i think our max was maybe 12?-yes it was almost all group therapy, but you could request one on one. and if they thought you needed it they would continue it while you were there.
-However, we did see our pdoc everyday. it was for probably only about 20 min. but basically they are monitoring meds.
************
did it help me? well, yes but only in that i entered it after my first hospital stay (that lasted just over 2 weeks). i actually had big issues with going straight home and going to that day program helped me greatly (not that itself helped me much) but having a place to be and keeping very active during the day, not having to stress with work, co-workers or family during the day helped TREMENDOUSLY.so, maybe you can look at your upcoming experience like that? see if you can do it for only a couple weeks. and do your best to hang on. though i am especially suprised that if they plan on tweeking your meds that they don't plan on daily or every other day visits from pdoc???
but anyway.
i do think group actually is a good idea for you, but 1) you should start off with 1 on 1 therapy or co-occuring therapies do well, help you deal with the stress and reactions to group thearpy. 2) you should be in a group with Others with SP as well. Otherwise (as i've found out) group therapy is void and null if you don't share much with the others.*******
best wishes to you Jayy.
b2c.
Posted by Jayy on June 1, 2009, at 15:37:58
In reply to Re: Ever Been In An 'Intensive Outpatient Program' » Jayy, posted by B2chica on May 28, 2009, at 12:44:58
> i've been in an "outpatient" tx program from our hospital a few years ago for about two or three weeks, can't remember now.
> ours was from 8:30-3:30. which made it equivalant to hospital treatment except that we could leave at the end of the day.
> and wow 20-25?! yes i don't have SP and that would freak me out. i think our max was maybe 12?
>
> -yes it was almost all group therapy, but you could request one on one. and if they thought you needed it they would continue it while you were there.
>
> -However, we did see our pdoc everyday. it was for probably only about 20 min. but basically they are monitoring meds.
>
> ************
> did it help me? well, yes but only in that i entered it after my first hospital stay (that lasted just over 2 weeks). i actually had big issues with going straight home and going to that day program helped me greatly (not that itself helped me much) but having a place to be and keeping very active during the day, not having to stress with work, co-workers or family during the day helped TREMENDOUSLY.
>
> so, maybe you can look at your upcoming experience like that? see if you can do it for only a couple weeks. and do your best to hang on. though i am especially suprised that if they plan on tweeking your meds that they don't plan on daily or every other day visits from pdoc???
>
> but anyway.
>
>
> i do think group actually is a good idea for you, but 1) you should start off with 1 on 1 therapy or co-occuring therapies do well, help you deal with the stress and reactions to group thearpy. 2) you should be in a group with Others with SP as well. Otherwise (as i've found out) group therapy is void and null if you don't share much with the others.
>
> *******
> best wishes to you Jayy.
> b2c.
>
>Thanks for sharing your info b2c. :O)
Well I'm glad that the program/having a place to go without the "normal" stresses of life did help you after the Hosp. stay. I'm avoiding that (the hospital) like the plague.I'm really not thrilled with the first three days of my program, but Im gonna make a separate post about that.
Posted by Jayy on June 1, 2009, at 17:05:36
In reply to Re: Ever Been In An 'Intensive Outpatient Program', posted by Jayy on June 1, 2009, at 15:37:58
Howdy (to anyone reading :O) )
So today was my 3rd day at the program:
Last Thursday was my first day: On that day I saw the Psychiatrist. Again he went over w/ me why he thinks I'm "bipolar 2" and prescribed me Lithium @ 600mg a night.
I'm pretty pleased w/ him... I had been reading a bipolar web site and wrote down all the meds that were known to cause weight gain (which I refuse to take) and he actually took the paper from me and read it and then went over each med. with me.Not a big deal but I was impressed that he was paying attention to what I was saying and not just BS'ing me.
So I had maybe 1/2 an hour with him, got an RX for 30 days and have no clue when I'll see him again.
I have to go for a blood test tomorrow to check my Lithium levels so maybe I'll see him soon... maybe not... no idea.On Thursday I also met individually w/ a therapist (I think she's a social worker/ baby sitter).
She was very nice but I didn't get much time to talk.After I met w/ her I was told to go into a room (for group therapy). The other babysitter wasn't in the room yet and when she arrived she said I was in the wrong room/group and told me to go to the other one.
Long story short: I walk into the room and the b**ch running the group gave me such an attitude!!
I was flabbergasted at the fact that this social worker/ professional baby sitter had the extraordinarily unprofessional, unnecessary and obnoxious attitude w/ me (the mental patient... just for walking into her room).I have a tendency to be extremely sensitive to attitudes and I wanted to check and see if I was imagining that this woman had the nerve to give me such an attitude so later on I asked the whole group: Everyone of them confirmed that yes, she did give me a huge attitude... but then a few went on to make excuses for her and tell me why I should let it go and that normally she's very nice.
Yeah, well I let it go but I don't need some snotty b**ch (who's supposed to be there to help me) giving me an unjustified attitude of that nature and I don't give a crap what her excuse was. It was very uncalled for and really infuriated me.
That woman ("A") is the same woman who read us an entire Dr Seuss book on Friday afternoon because there was only 25 minutes left and apparently she thought it would be a good idea... to read a f*cking Dr Seuss book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sorry, but I am not a child or mentally retarded: To read a Dr Seuss book to a group of adult mental patients (none of which are retarded) is so completely outrageously offensive and ridiculous to me and I just could not believe what I was dealing with.
Anyway, she's "nice" now but I don't trust her at all.
I really like all of the other patients there: I feel so NOT judged by everyone and it is nice to talk with others who have similar mental problems.
But as far as the program goes I believe it's useless to me. Hearing others talk about their particular problems doesn't do anything for me and it's not going to. I have my own issues and need to talk with a professional therapist (not a babysitter) alone about them.
What's good though is that I've only taken the Lithium for the past 4 nights and I swear I already feel waaaay less angry... believe it or not after this whole rant! ;O)
Here's what's really horrible: I made the stupid mistake of being too honest and telling the Psych. that I smoke pot occasionally.
Today one of the therapists (the first woman I spoke to) calls me into her office: I was told that the van was gonna drive me to the hospital so I can give a urine sample.
OK, that's fine. But what's NOT fine is that I was told that if there's pot in my system (which there is since I just smoked in Sunday) that they'd have to give me another one in a week... and if there's STILL pot in my urine then that means (according to her BS) that I'm a "chronic smoker" and that I'm not going to be allowed to move on from this program into individual therapy... and that I'd have to enter there drug rehab program first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
F**k that and f**k them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm completely outraged. Because I choose to smoke pot on occasion this means that I'm an effing drug addict and I need to go to some drug rehab?????
So (like I said to her) it's perfectly fine if I went home each day and drank alcohol, but God forbid I smoke some pot. I don't give a crap what they say... pot is fine and it's the farthest thing from a problem for me.
I'm not a damn drug addict, or a child or a retard and I very much resent being treated like one.That cannot possibly make sense and I'm beginning to think (again) that all they want to do is drain me (Medicare/Medicaid) for every dime they can.
Anyway, tomorrow (if I'm able to see this woman privately) I'm telling her that if I want to smoke pot occasionally then I will.
And I'm going to tell her that it's fine if they won't agree to treat me: But I'll also remind her that of course that means that I won't be able to get any of my medications and of course I'll have major withdrawal from them and of course that means I could easily die or seizure or both. Not to mention the fact that I'm already suicidally depressed so without any Dr or medication I'm sure it won't be a happy ending for me.
I'm not going back to that useless guidance center and all of my records are now at this new Romper Room...
If they really intend to throw me out and not treat me over simply smoking some pot then again, f**k them. I'm already depressed enough and it's just great to think that I may soon be in a worse situation than I was prior to joining that nut house.
Posted by kerria on June 2, 2009, at 23:31:56
In reply to Ever Been In An 'Intensive Outpatient Program'??, posted by Jayy on May 22, 2009, at 12:47:39
Hi Jayy,
yes- i've been to an 'intensive' day program- when i was having a hard time and needed support and it was just like you said- a COMPLETE waste of time and my insurance's money.
The 'group therapy' sessions were people asking and saying 'how are you?' around the circle, nobody caring about anyone else's answers as usual. There was absolutely nothing therapeutic at all the whole day. No one (and me included )would ever talk about what was going on inside- i know that there was no one who could identify with me or understand what i was going through. The only thing it was - was a day off from everything.
what a waste of money- i was shocked when i saw how much that five or six hr day cost my insurance.kerria
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