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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on June 24, 2009, at 23:17:33
especially anyone who knows something about commitment? I think my mother might be in trouble.
Posted by onceupon on June 24, 2009, at 23:29:05
In reply to is anyone around?, posted by Dinah on June 24, 2009, at 23:17:33
Mental health commitment? What's your concern?
Posted by obsidian on June 24, 2009, at 23:30:10
In reply to is anyone around?, posted by Dinah on June 24, 2009, at 23:17:33
hi, I'm here
Posted by Dinah on June 24, 2009, at 23:37:30
In reply to Re: is anyone around? » Dinah, posted by obsidian on June 24, 2009, at 23:30:10
My mother is a hoarder. And she's got this whole conspiracy thing worked up that resolves around her doctors insisting she have a home health nurse so that she'll call the authorities in on her house and declare it unlivable. Then she'll be discredited and won't be able to hurt Obama by exposing how bad the national health care plan that they were experimenting with in her hospital. She's told everyone on her care team this, but they let her go home so I'm assuming they didn't care all that much.
This isn't the sort of crazy the authorities will care about is it?
Posted by obsidian on June 24, 2009, at 23:43:34
In reply to Re: is anyone around?, posted by Dinah on June 24, 2009, at 23:37:30
I happen to know someone who has worked for the secret service. Apparently, they do hear from a lot of people with conspiracy theories about the govt. They understand the source. In your mother's case, it's likely just to be viewed as a symptom and not a cause for concern by legal authorities.
Posted by onceupon on June 24, 2009, at 23:46:24
In reply to Re: is anyone around?, posted by Dinah on June 24, 2009, at 23:37:30
By authorities, do you mean mental health "authorities?" Or someone else?
What a tough situation. Is her house actually unlivable? Does she have any mental health professionals on her care team? If she's having difficulties caring for herself and refusing a home health nurse, you might be able to get her some help by trying to go through a commitment process (which is what I assume you were asking about before). But this can be arduous, depending on where you live.
IIRC, you don't live in the same area as your mother? Is there anyone who could go check on her? How are you doing with all of this? I can imagine feeling powerless if I were in your shoes.
Posted by Dinah on June 24, 2009, at 23:50:16
In reply to Re: is anyone around? » Dinah, posted by obsidian on June 24, 2009, at 23:43:34
Oh good.
I do think she should be on medication.
But I'm not sure involuntary commitment would ultimately be helpful to her. If there was some intermediate sort of intervention, I think I'd be ok with that. Case workers or something.
Two of my aunts were in the state mental hospital, and one of them didn't sound all that different from what my mother is doing.
Thanks, Sid. I start feeling scared because I'm the closest thing she has to a responsible family member in her immediate family.
Posted by obsidian on June 24, 2009, at 23:57:07
In reply to Re: is anyone around? » obsidian, posted by Dinah on June 24, 2009, at 23:50:16
do you think she'd be willing to take medication?
Posted by Dinah on June 24, 2009, at 23:57:53
In reply to Re: is anyone around?, posted by onceupon on June 24, 2009, at 23:46:24
I think the house is unlivable. But by hoarder standards, it probably isn't as bad as some. Piles of stuff everywhere with corridors to walk through. I try as hard as I can to make sure the outside is within codes and not going to get fined, and I don't even succeed at that. Legal proceedings to have her declared incompetent would eat up everything either of us has. Neither of us have much money. I concentrate on making sure she has someplace to live.
My uncle is living with her. He lives on a sofa in one of the narrow corridors through the living room. I am not as good as I should be in helping her or checking up on her. I get too upset at what I feel responsible for, but have no power to affect.
Posted by Dinah on June 24, 2009, at 23:58:58
In reply to Re: is anyone around? » Dinah, posted by obsidian on June 24, 2009, at 23:57:07
I know she won't.
After all, there's nothing wrong with her. Any attempts to tell her otherwise is an attempt to control her.
Posted by obsidian on June 25, 2009, at 0:02:19
In reply to Re: is anyone around? » onceupon, posted by Dinah on June 24, 2009, at 23:57:53
I'm sorry you're in such a bind. Did you mean like adult protective authorities?? those people who might say that someone's house is unlivable and thus take action to correct it, whether or not the resident wants it?
Posted by Dinah on June 25, 2009, at 0:06:43
In reply to Re: is anyone around? » Dinah, posted by obsidian on June 25, 2009, at 0:02:19
I think my initial reaction was that she's gone and got herself in a position to be committed, and that is not going to be a good thing for anyone.
But I think I feel more confident now that she won't be committed.
With that concern behind me, I rather wish there was something that could be done. But I've already contacted everyone, and I don't see many palatable options.
I don't know what to do when her brother leaves. But until then, this may be as good as it gets.
Posted by onceupon on June 25, 2009, at 0:10:45
In reply to Re: is anyone around? » onceupon, posted by Dinah on June 24, 2009, at 23:57:53
Sounds like a lot of work on your part - and that you're doing the best you can within very difficult constraints.
Where I live, there are a number of county teams that begin the process of initiating commitment. I believe that legal fees are low, if any. But you would need to get her to agree to an assessment, which sounds out of the question, according to her.
You mentioned the state hospital before. People can be committed for outpatient treatment, too, which would involve case management/social work services, like you mentioned.
I just keep coming back to this being hard, hard, hard. And I'm sorry for that. I haven't had to deal with it yet with my own parents, but I can imagine that that responsibility/powerlessness mix doesn't feel so good.
Posted by obsidian on June 25, 2009, at 0:13:12
In reply to Re: is anyone around? » obsidian, posted by Dinah on June 25, 2009, at 0:06:43
I think that....
it depends on whether she is viewed as a danger to herself, if some adult protective authorities got involved because of concern expressed by her health care providers then they could compel her to be evaluated and then perhaps admitted to a psychiatric unit
if she is not raising such concerns with her health care providers then I imagine she's left to her own devices and to concerned family members
Posted by Dinah on June 25, 2009, at 0:15:22
In reply to Re: is anyone around?, posted by onceupon on June 25, 2009, at 0:10:45
One big problem is that I'm afraid of her. Not that she'll physically hurt me. But she manages to control everyone around her with her rage. She'll even laugh about it with me, when she's doing it to someone else. Of course, I don't find it funny knowing she does it with me too.
My head hurts. I think I'll head off to bed.
Thanks, onceupon.
Posted by Dinah on June 25, 2009, at 0:21:35
In reply to Re: is anyone around? » Dinah, posted by obsidian on June 25, 2009, at 0:13:12
So refusing the nurse would be a problem, while expressing bizarre conspiracy theories and hoarding wouldn't be?
I've been told they no longer have rats in the house or yard. And I don't think it's any more of a hazard in any other way than its ever been, and all sorts of people have been through it without condemning the place.
I'll try to point out that refusing health care would be unwise.
Posted by onceupon on June 25, 2009, at 0:21:56
In reply to Re: is anyone around? » onceupon, posted by Dinah on June 25, 2009, at 0:15:22
Rage is powerful stuff. It sounds like you're walking a tight line between doing your best to keep her housed and otherwise safe and maybe wondering if it's time to face the rage and get her some more help, knowing that it might (further?) damage your relationship. I don't envy you that.
I hope it doesn't sound like I think you're not doing the right thing, whatever that might be. I'm sure I can't even imagine how complex the situation is.
Sleep well, Dinah.
Posted by Dinah on June 25, 2009, at 0:39:39
In reply to Re: is anyone around?, posted by onceupon on June 25, 2009, at 0:21:56
I think I'm trying my best, but I have no confidence that my choices are the right ones.
If she was miserable, it might be clearer. But my mother is perfectly happy. Her brother seems perfectly happy. Her neighbors aren't happy, and I try to minimize her impact on them.
If I intervened more strongly (assuming I could which I doubt), who would be happier? Not my mother, not my uncle, possibly her neighbors, but possibly not. I know not me.
Posted by fleeting flutterby on June 25, 2009, at 9:58:44
In reply to Re: is anyone around? » onceupon, posted by Dinah on June 25, 2009, at 0:39:39
> I think I'm trying my best, but I have no confidence that my choices are the right ones.
>
> If she was miserable, it might be clearer. But my mother is perfectly happy. Her brother seems perfectly happy. Her neighbors aren't happy, and I try to minimize her impact on them.
>
> If I intervened more strongly (assuming I could which I doubt), who would be happier? Not my mother, not my uncle, possibly her neighbors, but possibly not. I know not me.<<---flutterby: Sorry you are going through a rough time.
I was wondering if your mother has dementia or alzeheimers? (sp?)--such people can be oblivious to their problems and quite happy..... I've heard they can have conspiracy theories, delusions and horrible rage-- starting with verbally and eventually escalating to physical rage. maybe your mother, if things get where she is in danger, would benefit by living in an assisted living place? I don't know your mother's age but they take people, for such care, as young as 55, I believe(maybe even younger).If she is functioning-- eating and cleaning herself, not causing fires or other life threatening things, then it seems there's not much one can do. People can "talk" crazy all day long-- it's their actions that usually result in dire measures to be taken.
caution***--- this may trigger some -- ********like ----
if your mom tried to jump out of a speeding car or held a knife to her stomach threatening to kill herself because you hurt her feelings. (my mother's got some issues)all you can do is your best-- whether your choices are the right ones or not-- your best is your best and for that you should be proud.
my heart is with you
flutterby-mandy
Posted by Dinah on June 25, 2009, at 12:13:44
In reply to Re: is anyone around? » Dinah, posted by fleeting flutterby on June 25, 2009, at 9:58:44
My mom isn't any danger to anyone. Aside from the hoarding, she mainly comes across as eccentric, I suppose. Occasionally she sounds worse, like last night.
But she also loves drama, and perhaps she was trying to suck me into worrying. Which succeeded.
I think she's gotten worse with age. But she was always like this to some extent. I suspect it isn't so much her growing older as her losing my father. He at least kept her from spinning too far into excess. Her brother seems to go along with whatever she says and doesn't challenge what she says. My mother likes that.
I think I'll try not to think about it. That seems to work best with my mother.
I'm sorry about your mom. That sounds like much more to deal with than mine is.
Posted by seldomseen on June 25, 2009, at 17:12:20
In reply to Re: is anyone around? » onceupon, posted by Dinah on June 25, 2009, at 0:39:39
My life I think revolves around pop-culture. Or at least I evidentally find a lot of truth there. I'm reminded of a line in the "Horse Whisperer" where the mother of a horribly injured, rebellious, angry child begs the air to just tell her she is doing the right thing. There was of course no answer because she asked the air.
Dinah, I think there is evidence that you are doing the right thing by your mother. You say she is happy, her brother is happy and you are relatively happy not intervening any more than you are. There are some things that just can't be forced and doing so doesn't necessarily improve anything for any of the parties involved.
I say let what is, be. You can always re-evaluate later.
Peace.
Seldom.
Posted by Dinah on June 26, 2009, at 22:09:16
In reply to Re: is anyone around?, posted by seldomseen on June 25, 2009, at 17:12:20
I think you're right. There will be trouble coming, but it's not here quite yet. I can re-evaluate when it comes.
She seems to be better today. The nurse came to the house, so she didn't block that.
My therapist said the stress she was under could possibly exacerbate her problems, and that it didn't mean she'd stay as bad as that. And that seems to be true, thank heavens. She sounds more her usual level of crazy today.
This is the end of the thread.
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