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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on May 10, 2012, at 9:56:06
I'm afraid of being engulfed by my mother. I see her as a powerful whirlpool of will and need. It is so easy for her to pull people into her world, to dominate them with her will.
Because of that, I'm likely not as kind as I should be. I stay more distant and keep up my defenses.
I feel like a Dane to her Grendel.
Yet I recognize that my perspective is warped by the fact that I have never really stopped seeing her as all powerful mother to my helpless child. I see my separation as one of emotional divorce and doing boundaries, not of power equalization.
On the other hand, she really does dominate the people in her orbit and consciously uses rage and bulldozing to get her way. I say consciously because she's described to me times she's done this.
Posted by Twinleaf on May 11, 2012, at 5:37:27
In reply to On a slightly different note, posted by Dinah on May 10, 2012, at 9:56:06
It's as though her form of strength is also a liability for those around her. Now that she is ill, it's harder to keep an optimal distance away because you naturally want to help and support her. In my experience, which is different because my mother was unusually withdrawn, facing these issues about one's mother are the most painful of all the work one can do in therapy, and also the most helpful and useful. I do hope you find that to be the case for you, too.
Posted by Tabitha on May 12, 2012, at 2:27:27
In reply to On a slightly different note, posted by Dinah on May 10, 2012, at 9:56:06
It seems like a form of kindness to see her as powerful at this stage in her life. You might instead see a pretty helpless old woman.
My mother was the opposite of engulfing. At least that's how I saw her. Very difficult to ever ascertain her "will". Then again she probably had some skill at manipulation. Wasn't that the accepted style for women to exercise power back in her day? Get your way, without actually appearing to assert your will.
I feel I understand her more as I age. Perhaps just projection, made easier by her absence.
Posted by Dinah on May 12, 2012, at 15:22:00
In reply to Re: On a slightly different note, posted by Twinleaf on May 11, 2012, at 5:37:27
I think you're right about this being one of the most important issues to face in therapy. I hope my therapist understands. He's very supportive of my standing separate from her, but this is something slightly different. I rather suspect it ties into my fears of growing up, among many other things.
I don't think I realized until I worried about whether she would die just how much her strength is part of my world view. She scares me, she infuriates me, but I can't imagine a world without her stubborn insistence on the world being exactly the way she wants it to be. Her astonishing ability to stare reality in the face and see only what she wishes to see. She draws her own world like "Harold and the Purple Crayon". And yes, it is a form of strength.
I wish I had the strength to be separate without having to push her away. Even if I manage to maintain the distance, the stance is still based on her strength, not mine as a separate entity in the world.
Posted by Dinah on May 12, 2012, at 15:38:26
In reply to Re: On a slightly different note, posted by Tabitha on May 12, 2012, at 2:27:27
You're right. I think her bulldozer mentality has caused her grief in a life where it wasn't really expected in women. Although I must confess that Mormon women are some of the strongest I know. Or perhaps some of the strongest women I know are Mormon women. My mother is definitely a descendent of the pioneers who crossed the plains and hewed farms out of the desert and wilderness. I do admire it. In fact, I have a little dog right now who also is unbelievably willful. I find it charming in her, although it's admittedly far easier to pick her up and put her in a crate when she attacks someone.
I think the problem is that she couples it with... Hmmm... I was reading an Agatha Christie book the other day. Miss Marple describes the first victim as someone who has no idea how what they do affects other people. That she was someone who always saw things from her own point of view. She even went on to say that it had nothing to do with lack of generosity or unkindness. That the woman would likely have been very generous to others with her time and services. I must confess it described my mother perfectly. She *is* enormously generous with others. My mother is a person of extremes. There's a lot to admire as well.
Your mother must have been more an enthusiastic manipulator than a skilled one, if you were that aware and resentful at it. The very best manipulators leave their victims happy. I'm thinking of it from a DBT perspective. And of course I come from the South, where an indirect wielding of power was considered more feminine for a long time. Though Southern women were also fairly strong.
For myself, I'm an ostrich. I spend my life hiding my head and forgetting trouble as much as I can. I have periods of standing my ground, but I can't maintain it consistently for any length of time.
This is the end of the thread.
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