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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Roslynn on November 5, 2018, at 15:38:04
Hi everyone,
My longtime pdoc just retired and I'm having a really hard time coping. It's creating a ton of anxiety for me, exacerbation of my depression, etc.
Has anyone else ever experienced this when your pdoc left? How long did it take you to get over it?
Thank you,
Roslynn
Posted by alexandra_k on November 6, 2018, at 15:18:40
In reply to Anyone ever get attached to their pdoc?, posted by Roslynn on November 5, 2018, at 15:38:04
Hey.
I have had clinicians retire or leave before I was ready to stop working with them, and I took it pretty hard, at times, yeah.
It's can be a bit like grieving. At least, it was a bit like grieving, for me. Moments of realisation when I'd catch myself thinking that I would tell x that, or whatever. It does pass... But it can take some time, yeah.
It can be hardest when there is a role that a person plays in your life that you still need to be filled and when there isn't a replacement. I mean, there is a sense in which the person isn't replaceable... But there is a sense in which the role they played can be... Do you still need to see a p-doc? Do you need to find a new one? Or is part of it about moving on from having a p-doc in your life at all?
Posted by Roslynn on November 7, 2018, at 14:12:29
In reply to Re: Anyone ever get attached to their pdoc?, posted by alexandra_k on November 6, 2018, at 15:18:40
> Hey.
>
> I have had clinicians retire or leave before I was ready to stop working with them, and I took it pretty hard, at times, yeah.
>
Thank you...it was sort of sudden/unexpected (at least on my end).
> It's can be a bit like grieving. At least, it was a bit like grieving, for me. Moments of realisation when I'd catch myself thinking that I would tell x that, or whatever. It does pass... But it can take some time, yeah.I think it is a lot like grieving..this person was in your life and now they won't be.
>
> It can be hardest when there is a role that a person plays in your life that you still need to be filled and when there isn't a replacement. I mean, there is a sense in which the person isn't replaceable... But there is a sense in which the role they played can be... Do you still need to see a p-doc? Do you need to find a new one? Or is part of it about moving on from having a p-doc in your life at all?Yes, that's a helpful way to look at it. I have a new pdoc but the old pdoc represented safety and stability for me. Also, a bit of an old-school pdoc in that they met with me for longer sessions. And always calling back promptly and having a strong system in place in case of emergencies.
My illness is serious enough that I will always need a pdoc due to the complexity of my med regimen. This is a little scary as there seems to be a shortage of psychiatrists, at least where I am.
Thank you so much for your reply :)
Posted by alexandra_k on November 7, 2018, at 23:43:13
In reply to Re: Anyone ever get attached to their pdoc?, posted by Roslynn on November 7, 2018, at 14:12:29
> Thank you...it was sort of sudden/unexpected (at least on my end).
ah, and then a bit of a shock, as well.
> I think it is a lot like grieving..this person was in your life and now they won't be.
yeah. and especially when you don't have any say in it, it can come as a shock, yeah.
> I have a new pdoc but the old pdoc represented safety and stability for me. Also, a bit of an old-school pdoc in that they met with me for longer sessions. And always calling back promptly and having a strong system in place in case of emergencies.
ah. it can be hard when you have built up a good relationship, over time. mutual understanding and genuine rapport (of the sort that can never be established in a check-box fashion in a one-time interview).
> My illness is serious enough that I will always need a pdoc due to the complexity of my med regimen. This is a little scary as there seems to be a shortage of psychiatrists, at least where I am.
yeah. there are is a shortage of good psychiatrists... everywhere, i think.
have you started meeting with anyone? can your old one refer you to a colleague (who is likely to be like-minded)? i don't know how feasible it may be to shop around...
i do understand about stability. that was important for me, too.
Posted by Roslynn on November 8, 2018, at 15:27:23
In reply to Re: Anyone ever get attached to their pdoc?, posted by alexandra_k on November 7, 2018, at 23:43:13
> yeah. and especially when you don't have any say in it, it can come as a shock, yeah.It was a shock considering I'd been going many years...
>
> yeah. there are is a shortage of good psychiatrists... everywhere, i think.I think this is a real problem especially for people who rely on insurance...
>
> have you started meeting with anyone? can your old one refer you to a colleague (who is likely to be like-minded)? i don't know how feasible it may be to shop around...I have a new doc, but it will just take some time, I guess.
> i do understand about stability. that was important for me, too.Thank you for your support!
Posted by alexandra_k on November 8, 2018, at 17:49:58
In reply to Re: Anyone ever get attached to their pdoc?, posted by Roslynn on November 8, 2018, at 15:27:23
It's a problem. For people who can't purchase out of pocket / for people who aren't allowed to.
> I have a new doc, but it will just take some time, I guess.
Yeah, you did say that, and I missed it before. Sorry. It takes time to build up a relationship, sure. I'm always surprised that every single psych assessment I've ever had had 'rapport was established' as a comment in the first paragraph. I always through rapport took... Months or years. Nice to know they felt comfortable, though, huh.
It might be a bit like getting a new puppy when an old one passes. I mean, to start with it's hard because you miss the old one and the old one was a good fit and so any differences sort of remind you that you miss the old one. Over time new things can develop and that can help ease things. But I think you always do miss the person a bit. Every person is unique. One of the good (though sometimes painful) things about 'em.
> Thank you for your support!Sure. Thank you for your conversation.
Posted by baseball55 on November 9, 2018, at 17:24:42
In reply to Re: Anyone ever get attached to their pdoc? » Roslynn, posted by alexandra_k on November 8, 2018, at 17:49:58
I'm completely attached to my p-doc whom i saw in weekly therapy for several years and now see for an hour every 8 weeks or so for meds and just to check in and talk. But he's nearly 80 and I know he won't be able to keep prating much longer, though he is in good health and has no current plans to retire. He has been like a good father to me. He asks about my daughter all the time and listens to her recordings and listens to me brag about her. Mt daughter once complained that I talked about him like he was her grandfather, and in a sense, he is. I will be heart-broken when he retires or gets sick or passes.
Posted by sigismund on November 11, 2018, at 8:54:14
In reply to Anyone ever get attached to their pdoc?, posted by Roslynn on November 5, 2018, at 15:38:04
If it works it works through attachment.
Get over it? Well, can you not just miss him and remember him?
Painful? Yes.
As for my last one, I don't want to get over him. I love remembering him. But you are talking about something different I think, you feeling bereft.
I don't know....you could read Ecclesiastes
Posted by Roslynn on November 11, 2018, at 14:17:28
In reply to Re: Anyone ever get attached to their pdoc?, posted by baseball55 on November 9, 2018, at 17:24:42
> I'm completely attached to my p-doc whom i saw in weekly therapy for several years and now see for an hour every 8 weeks or so for meds and just to check in and talk. But he's nearly 80 and I know he won't be able to keep prating much longer, though he is in good health and has no current plans to retire. He has been like a good father to me. He asks about my daughter all the time and listens to her recordings and listens to me brag about her. Mt daughter once complained that I talked about him like he was her grandfather, and in a sense, he is. I will be heart-broken when he retires or gets sick or passes.
Oh, baseball55, that's so similar to how I feel. Like my pdoc is a family member. It's so hard because we can get so close to them. They are a lifeline at times. I've never had a therapist who told me I could call them in a crisis situation, nor would I have wanted to. It's only been my pdoc that gave me that sense of safety. I'm so glad you have a good doc.
Posted by baseball55 on November 11, 2018, at 17:09:30
In reply to Re: Anyone ever get attached to their pdoc?, posted by Roslynn on November 11, 2018, at 14:17:28
He saw me through a nearly 5 year rollercoaster of severe depression, intrusive thoughts of suicide, suicide attempts, multiple hospitalizations, as well as helping me learn to understand and cope with my emotions and my past. Every time i wqs hospitalized (and I'm talking maybe 10 times). the doctors and social workers would talk to him and say to me later, you've forged a really strong bond with him and done some amazing work together, which is pretty rare.
So - appreciate what you have. It's not that common. Realize that he cares a lot about you - it's an odd relationship, but it is a relationship and it's a two-way street. My doc always told me that he cared a lot about me and that there was a way in which he loved me. He said you can't do long-term therapy with somebody unless there are things you love and respect about them. When I tried terminating (didn't last long - I couldn't handle it) he said he would miss seeing me and talking to me. He once told me, when I said I wanted to give him a meaningful gift since he had given me so much, he said that I had already given him the most meaningful thing he could want - a relationship of mutual trust.
So retiring and ending these long-term, loving relationships based on mutual trust and respect is painful for therapists also, not just for their patients. The hard thing, that took me a long time to come to terms with, is that I am not a part of his regular life and have no claim on him beyond our professional relationship. If he feels he needs to stop then there's nothing I can do about it. But I have come to terms with it.
When I first began seeing him, I told him I loved him and he said I didn't really love him. That love meant putting someone's well-being above your own and that is not how I felt about him at all. I just needed and wanted him, for my own sake, not for his. But now, as he's getting quite old and I realize that he may soon be gone, I really do feel love for him. I want him to be as healthy and happy as he can be. I want him to have a good life. I wish him well. If he told me he needed to retire, then I could accept this and really want the best for him.
This is a real advance for me. The therapist-patient relationship is by its very nature a selfish relationship. You talk about you, not him. He cares for you, not you for him. You want and need him more than he needs you. You do not necessarily wish him well if that involves a loss for you.
It's been a long and productive and loving relationship and I feel I am finally able to look at it with some selflessness.
>
> Oh, baseball55, that's so similar to how I feel. Like my pdoc is a family member. It's so hard because we can get so close to them. They are a lifeline at times. I've never had a therapist who told me I could call them in a crisis situation, nor would I have wanted to. It's only been my pdoc that gave me that sense of safety. I'm so glad you have a good doc.
>
Posted by Roslynn on November 12, 2018, at 15:23:44
In reply to Re: Anyone ever get attached to their pdoc?, posted by baseball55 on November 11, 2018, at 17:09:30
> He saw me through a nearly 5 year rollercoaster of severe depression, intrusive thoughts of suicide, suicide attempts, multiple hospitalizations, as well as helping me learn to understand and cope with my emotions and my past. Every time i wqs hospitalized (and I'm talking maybe 10 times). the doctors and social workers would talk to him and say to me later, you've forged a really strong bond with him and done some amazing work together, which is pretty rare.
>
> So - appreciate what you have. It's not that common. Realize that he cares a lot about you - it's an odd relationship, but it is a relationship and it's a two-way street. My doc always told me that he cared a lot about me and that there was a way in which he loved me. He said you can't do long-term therapy with somebody unless there are things you love and respect about them. When I tried terminating (didn't last long - I couldn't handle it) he said he would miss seeing me and talking to me. He once told me, when I said I wanted to give him a meaningful gift since he had given me so much, he said that I had already given him the most meaningful thing he could want - a relationship of mutual trust.
>
> So retiring and ending these long-term, loving relationships based on mutual trust and respect is painful for therapists also, not just for their patients. The hard thing, that took me a long time to come to terms with, is that I am not a part of his regular life and have no claim on him beyond our professional relationship. If he feels he needs to stop then there's nothing I can do about it. But I have come to terms with it.
>
> When I first began seeing him, I told him I loved him and he said I didn't really love him. That love meant putting someone's well-being above your own and that is not how I felt about him at all. I just needed and wanted him, for my own sake, not for his. But now, as he's getting quite old and I realize that he may soon be gone, I really do feel love for him. I want him to be as healthy and happy as he can be. I want him to have a good life. I wish him well. If he told me he needed to retire, then I could accept this and really want the best for him.
>
> This is a real advance for me. The therapist-patient relationship is by its very nature a selfish relationship. You talk about you, not him. He cares for you, not you for him. You want and need him more than he needs you. You do not necessarily wish him well if that involves a loss for you.
>
> It's been a long and productive and loving relationship and I feel I am finally able to look at it with some selflessness.
Dear baseball55,I'm so sorry for everything you went through but I'm very glad you were able to find a good doctor to be there for you.
Thank you for your post, it was incredibly insightful and beautifully written. What a great description of the bond that can develop between the pdoc and patient.
Thanks again,
Roslynn
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