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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Clari on September 15, 2007, at 2:07:42
How do you tell the difference between the emotional abuser and the victim in the relationship?
Posted by Squiggles on September 15, 2007, at 15:47:03
In reply to emotional abusers + victims, how do you know?, posted by Clari on September 15, 2007, at 2:07:42
> How do you tell the difference between the emotional abuser and the victim in the relationship?
I think the abuser holds the stick and uses his
power to hit the victim. The victim cringes and
remains helpless. The abuser justifies his actions by blaming the victim for making him do this, and the victim knows that this is more abuse but cannot escape it.(note that the stick is metaphorical and can be any kind of weapon, including lying, cheating, mind games, physical as well as emotional abuse)
Squiggles
Posted by Clari on September 17, 2007, at 3:09:21
In reply to Re: emotional abusers + victims, how do you know? » Clari, posted by Squiggles on September 15, 2007, at 15:47:03
I ask because I am unsure whether I am the abuser or the victim.
My partner says I am the abuser (not in so many words, of course, but that I am the one behaving badly).
I'm starting to think that maybe I'm not solely responsible for our (almost) daily arguments, and that maybe I'm dealing with a controlling partner.
Then again, I have a history of relationship sabotage, so maybe I am just seeing the behaviour I want to see in order to leave. Maybe I am behaving badly, and I want to blame that on someone else.
Posted by Squiggles on September 17, 2007, at 14:04:07
In reply to Re: emotional abusers + victims, how do you know?, posted by Clari on September 17, 2007, at 3:09:21
> I ask because I am unsure whether I am the abuser or the victim.
>
> My partner says I am the abuser (not in so many words, of course, but that I am the one behaving badly).
>
> I'm starting to think that maybe I'm not solely responsible for our (almost) daily arguments, and that maybe I'm dealing with a controlling partner.
>
> Then again, I have a history of relationship sabotage, so maybe I am just seeing the behaviour I want to see in order to leave. Maybe I am behaving badly, and I want to blame that on someone else.Well, unless you are a Freudian or Jungian type searching for the unclear, i tend to stick with Ockham's razor-- for example, i had no doubt that O.J. Simpson was the abuser in the 1986 murder case. Ditto Paul Bernardo. They were behaving badly. I don't think it is that mysterious to see by an outsider. I've seen it in friends' relationships and it's only when rationalizations are sought by therapists that the other party is question -- of course it often takes too, but observation is the best- by friends, relatives and children.
Posted by Clari on September 17, 2007, at 19:06:36
In reply to Re: emotional abusers + victims, how do you know? » Clari, posted by Squiggles on September 17, 2007, at 14:04:07
Thanks for you replies, Squiggles.
I have one friend who hasn't met my partner, but says that there is a lot of control going on... that it's a classic case.
Yet my partner's family, who spend time with us, believe that I am to blame for everything going wrong.
So either both of us are in the wrong...
Or we are telling our subjective points of view to our friends and family, and therefore they see the side that we tell them.
Which leaves me even more confused.
Posted by Squiggles on September 18, 2007, at 15:16:18
In reply to Re: emotional abusers + victims, how do you know?, posted by Clari on September 17, 2007, at 19:06:36
> Thanks for you replies, Squiggles.
>
> I have one friend who hasn't met my partner, but says that there is a lot of control going on... that it's a classic case.
>
> Yet my partner's family, who spend time with us, believe that I am to blame for everything going wrong.
>
> So either both of us are in the wrong...
>
> Or we are telling our subjective points of view to our friends and family, and therefore they see the side that we tell them.
>
> Which leaves me even more confused.
Perspective is always a problem. Those darn spinning waaltenschaungs :-). Even in cases of blatant physical abuse, different sides can be taken on the truth, when there is something to be gained by the observer. Ultimately, only a judge can draw the most objective conclusion, and even there, ambiguity is rampant according to money, power and celebrity status for example.As a general rule, I believe men are more likely to be the culprits just because of the powerless status many women have and the hormonal difference. That is my opinion for most historical cases of emotional and physical abuse.
Squiggles
Posted by Quintal on September 27, 2007, at 16:20:05
In reply to emotional abusers + victims, how do you know?, posted by Clari on September 15, 2007, at 2:07:42
There are serial abusers, and there are also serial victims, and people who have no history of either sometimes fall into the hands of an abuser. I guess they're the real victims then? I don't know. Human relationships don't take place in a vacuum, so it's hard to get clear-cut distinctions like this. I guess there's a tendency for people to retaliate to provocation, and this provocation can take many forms, and may indeed be invisible to outsiders who are unaware of all the hidden nuances between partners. In this case the victim can quite easily be painted as the abuser. This is a very frustrating situation to be in. I've experienced it several times myself, firstly with my mother. I find time tends to out all truth.
How do you respond to being away from your partner for any length of time? I guess if you were the abuser these patterns would continue with other people. If you were the victim I think you'd start to feel better after spending time away from your partner.
Q
Posted by Squiggles on September 27, 2007, at 16:30:39
In reply to Re: emotional abusers + victims, how do you know? » Clari, posted by Quintal on September 27, 2007, at 16:20:05
> There are serial abusers, and there are also serial victims, and people who have no history of either sometimes fall into the hands of an abuser. I guess they're the real victims then? I don't know. Human relationships don't take place in a vacuum, so it's hard to get clear-cut distinctions like this. I guess there's a tendency for people to retaliate to provocation, and this provocation can take many forms, and may indeed be invisible to outsiders who are unaware of all the hidden nuances between partners. In this case the victim can quite easily be painted as the abuser. This is a very frustrating situation to be in. I've experienced it several times myself, firstly with my mother. I find time tends to out all truth.
I agree that i is a difficult concept to define, and may even be transient and episodic and not necessarily an inherent or genetic trait of a person. After all, everyone exercises some degree of abuse under some stressful situtations. To merit the word "abuser" someone has to be like that with everyone, and for most of his/her life in interacting with people and achieving/her aims. That could be a learned thing or a passive/aggressive method of solving problems, or a genetic traint to bullying.
>
> How do you respond to being away from your partner for any length of time? I guess if you were the abuser these patterns would continue with other people. If you were the victim I think you'd start to feel better after spending time away from your partner.Good question, and sadly revealing-- with a peaceful state of mind and sense of control and self-esteem. I feel controlled with some bullies for example and under stress. But of course familiarity also builds bonds. Say no more.
Squiggles
Posted by elanor roosevelt on October 7, 2007, at 22:10:11
In reply to Re: emotional abusers + victims, how do you know? » Quintal, posted by Squiggles on September 27, 2007, at 16:30:39
there are also people who thrive on conflict
for them it's just a natural was to feel alive and interact
then there is the theory of conflict resolution
might want to take a look online for some guidelines
Posted by Squiggles on October 8, 2007, at 7:26:08
In reply to Re: emotional abusers + victims, how do you know?, posted by elanor roosevelt on October 7, 2007, at 22:10:11
> there are also people who thrive on conflict
>
> for them it's just a natural was to feel alive and interactI'm sure some people have that temperament --
some people just can't sit still or enjoy peace.
>
> then there is the theory of conflict resolution
> might want to take a look online for some guidelines
>I don't know about taking it to a logistical level;
how about if they just get involved in sports to take out their frustrations, instead of on other people. If the problem is temperament, conflict resolution studies is not going to help them.Squiggles
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