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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Cherrybomb on July 1, 2008, at 11:05:59
Most of these posts seem pretty old. I want to see if anyone will listen to me before spending a lot of time posting. Please let me know if you will listen.
Thank you.
Posted by fayeroe on July 1, 2008, at 13:26:44
In reply to Depression, posted by Cherrybomb on July 1, 2008, at 11:05:59
is it about a relationship? if so, i will. pat
Posted by Cherrybomb on July 1, 2008, at 14:51:19
In reply to Re: Depression » Cherrybomb, posted by fayeroe on July 1, 2008, at 13:26:44
Well, where do I start. I don't have a problem with romantic relationships, I'm married and my husband is a great guy, but I never had close friends. I try. I can be friendly, funny, outgoing, but I've been hurt a lot in the past. I was always kind of shy, considered to be the most unpopular girl at school. Kids were extremely cruel to me to the point where I wouldn't sit with anyone on the bus because nobody wanted to sit next to me. I had nightmares about going to school for years and still do occasionally. To make things worse I can't have children. I got pregnant once through IVF but I had a miscarriage. All of my tests are normal so the only thing the docs can say is they don't know. I'm 41 now and my husband is 48 and he has pretty much accepted that we won't have children and thinks he is too old to pursue adoption or anything else. A few years ago I was on a trip with an organization I belong to. There was a guy I met and he, I and a couple of his friends hung out on the trip. It was the pick me up that I needed. It was nice to have someone give me a chance. We remained friends for a year then he found a girlfriend who joined the organization a few years after me. I didn't get it as my friend is married and 22 years older than this woman. I tried to remain a friend, but his girlfriend wouldn't allow him to be friendly to me. He tried, but he would eventually give in to her demands. I never thought that being his friend would be a conflict because I don't call him or hang out with him outside of the organization. We did however email for awhile and he was very supportive, but we don't email anymore. The reason it bothers me is because for some reason people always give up on me except for my husband. It can be for the most bizarre reasons, like an insecure 25 year old going after a 48 year old married guy. I do my best to hang out with other people in the organization. He said a few years ago that he values my friendship. The thing is, I believed him. I don't want anything romantic, I just wanted a friend to talk to. My failure at maintaining friendships has gotten to me and my defensiveness has led me to say things that were not so nice to him. I did apologize,but I think he has given up on me. I'm depressed about going to this organization now and I'm depressed about other things. I don't think that I'm a bad person, I just simply liked being valued. I was condemned for wanting to be a friend because she says it isn't appropriate. I liked having someone make the effort to be friendly to me as most other people will not. We used to have fun and joke around, now he is uncomfortable and he wants to avoid me. The biggest hurt to me was when he was going to give me a birthday card but his girlfriend got so upset they had a huge argument and they almost broke up. I'm not upset about not getting a card, I'm upset because I had no idea that someone wanting to give me a stupid card would cause such a huge argument. I see them both weekly and I don't know what to do, how to act, or how to respond. He won't socialize anymore as he seems more comfortable avoiding me. I tried to talk to her and resolve things, but I don't think that I can. I love my husband, but I can't rely on him for everything, he can't be the sole person in my life. We all need friends to rely on. If I rely on my huband for everything, I think it would be too much for him. Part of my problem is I thought of this guy as a friend and I don't know how to give up on people I care about.
Posted by fayeroe on July 1, 2008, at 15:03:59
In reply to Re: Depression, posted by Cherrybomb on July 1, 2008, at 14:51:19
hmmmmmmmmmm.
I'm sorry that you feel that you aren't valued. Most folks can relate to that, at one time or the other.
First, I would examine my feelings for the gentleman, who by the way is married, and truthfully explore if you may have wanted more from him than friendship.
Secondly, he is cheating on his wife! I feel that you are spending an awful lot of valuable energy being caught up in the dynamics between this "man" and his girlfriend.
I question his motives. I may be a bit paranoid, but something just doesn't sound right with him. I feel that seeking solace from a married man could turn out to be harmful to your marriage.
Have you made an effort to make any female friends in your circle of acquaintances?
I would suggest that you seek couples counseling asap and lay your feelings out to the therapist and your husband. Your husband may be more willing than you think he is to be more supportive to you.
What kind of recreation do you involve yourself in? Is there anything that you can share with your husband?
I wonder if there is another organization that you could join? Rubbing salt in your own wounds is bound to keep you tied up in knots......
Pat
Posted by Cherrybomb on July 1, 2008, at 15:42:23
In reply to Re: Depression » Cherrybomb, posted by fayeroe on July 1, 2008, at 15:03:59
Well, it turned out his wife wanted a divorce before he met this woman. He's cheated on his wife before, but she's wanted nothing to do with him for a long time. Anyway,I've been clinging to the little friendhip that I have (or had.) I would love to meet other people, someone to take my mind off of not having any friends. Even people at work want nothing to do with me as I'm not part of their click, though I have tried to be social. I didn't think I would have these problems as an adult. I have nothing against female friends at all. I don't really know what his motives were, I wanted to believe that he truly wanted to be a friend. I talked to my husband about kids, but he thinks he's too old and that we don't have enough money to raise a family. Infertility treatments have been extremely expensive and insurance doesn't cover anything.
Posted by fleeting flutterby on July 1, 2008, at 15:49:06
In reply to Re: Depression, posted by Cherrybomb on July 1, 2008, at 14:51:19
Hi.
I think all that Pat has said is very good. (Hi- Pat! ;o) ....)I'm sorry that you struggle with friendships-- it's hard, I understand, as I am very similar.
I'm not very active on internet forums but I pop in now and then......I've noticed too that this particular area doesn't get much activity...*shrugs*... don't know why.....
I wish you the best,
flutterby-mandy
Posted by fayeroe on July 1, 2008, at 16:10:13
In reply to Re: Depression, posted by Cherrybomb on July 1, 2008, at 15:42:23
> Well, it turned out his wife wanted a divorce before he met this woman. He's cheated on his wife before, but she's wanted nothing to do with him for a long time. Anyway,I've been clinging to the little friendhip that I have (or had.) I would love to meet other people, someone to take my mind off of not having any friends. Even people at work want nothing to do with me as I'm not part of their click, though I have tried to be social. I didn't think I would have these problems as an adult. I have nothing against female friends at all. I don't really know what his motives were, I wanted to believe that he truly wanted to be a friend. I talked to my husband about kids, but he thinks he's too old and that we don't have enough money to raise a family. Infertility treatments have been extremely expensive and insurance doesn't cover anything.
I have learned to always doubt it when a man says that his wife doesn't want to have anything to do with him anymore. I guess I'm very cynical..but my ex told the nurse that he took up with that we didn't have a sexual relationship when we had a very active one.
How about the couples counseling?
Posted by Cherrybomb on July 2, 2008, at 0:01:55
In reply to Re: Depression » Cherrybomb, posted by fayeroe on July 1, 2008, at 16:10:13
It does seem like a lot of wasted energy on this. Here I am at almost 1 am because I ate late and couldn't sleep. I need other things to focus on. This is the time of year I really get depressed. I'm a teacher so I'm off for the Summer. I'm trying to find ways to pass the time. I'm not motivated to do housework as we don't have a nice house, but I know it has to be done. If I had a nicer place and wasn't embarrassed by it I would attempt to invite people over, but I can't do it by myself. Too much needs to be done. I don't know about couples counseling. I thought about it. I know this guy's wife and so do others. She's given up on him a long time ago but stayed with him until the kids were in college. She's the one who insisted on a divorce. He wanted to stay married and continue his affair with his girlfriend. The thing is, when you are in an organization and you talk to people regularly, you find out things sometimes by accident from half-drunk people. I did like the attention and I liked being valued and to have someone listen to me. My motive is just friendship. If I was upset over losing a female friend, would people think that I was a lesbian? My husband knows about this guy, I never tried to keep it a secret from him. I do admit it seems I need to find others to fill the friendship void. Not so easy for me. Still, if I do care about someone, I don't know how to stop caring.
Posted by fayeroe on July 2, 2008, at 4:56:31
In reply to Re: Depression, posted by Cherrybomb on July 2, 2008, at 0:01:55
> It does seem like a lot of wasted energy on this. Here I am at almost 1 am because I ate late and couldn't sleep.
**Do you exercise? How about a brisk 30 minute walk after dinner?**I need other things to focus on. This is the time of year I really get depressed. I'm a teacher so I'm off for the Summer. I'm trying to find ways to pass the time. I'm not motivated to do housework as we don't have a nice house, but I know it has to be done. If I had a nicer place and wasn't embarrassed by it I would attempt to invite people over, but I can't do it by myself. Too much needs to be done. I don't know about couples counseling.
**I doubt that your friends would be reluctant to come over because your house isn't as nice as you think it should be. Get cracking and do some minor things. Change out the pillows on the sofa, paint the coffee table (if that is possible), make new curtains/drapes out of bargain fabric or sheets....PAINT.....that is the cheapest decor that you can do and it changes a room more than anything else. Habitat for Humanity has very cheap paint.**
I thought about it. I know this guy's wife and so do others. She's given up on him a long time ago but stayed with him until the kids were in college. She's the one who insisted on a divorce.
**Did she tell you this?**
**What would keep her from divorcing him? Staying together due to children isn't usually the best for all involved. Those kids, college age, know what is going on.**
He wanted to stay married and continue his affair with his girlfriend. The thing is, when you are in an organization and you talk to people regularly, you find out things sometimes by accident from half-drunk people.
**What kind of organization is this? Are you hearing these things about the wife from half-drunk people?**
I did like the attention and I liked being valued and to have someone listen to me. My motive is just friendship. If I was upset over losing a female friend, would people think that I was a lesbian?
**
That's just silly. I lost my best friend, of 35 years, due to something hurtful she said about the war. I grieved alot, but no one said I was a lesbian.**
My husband knows about this guy, I never tried to keep it a secret from him. I do admit it seems I need to find others to fill the friendship void. Not so easy for me. Still, if I do care about someone, I don't know how to stop caring.**You can only fix yourself. Stay on the internet, when you read this and google "losing a friend" or something similiar. There are lots of ways that we can find self-help on the net.**
Posted by cherrybomb on July 2, 2008, at 8:27:33
In reply to Re: Depression » Cherrybomb, posted by fayeroe on July 2, 2008, at 4:56:31
I belong to a musical organization that rehearses at a legion post. There's a bar downstairs and sometimes we stop somewhere after concerts, hence the half-drunk people. I don't mean this in a bad way though, I just mean that sometimes people let information slip out that they didn't really intend to say. There are people there who have known each other for over 30 years. It's a very social group and it's about the only socializing I do. I'm scared to death of inviting people over. I don't do well with rejection and I don't know who would be interested in stopping by.I do know his wife somewhat, she used to play there. I do know that she wanted a divorce for years. I'm not sure how this pertains to my friendship problem, I guess I tried to be supportive the best I could. My biggest problem is I feel that once again I'm a failure as a friend. At least I have my husband.
Posted by cherrybomb on July 2, 2008, at 8:33:30
In reply to Re: Depression, posted by cherrybomb on July 2, 2008, at 8:27:33
Oh, I forgot. I do exercise. I work out at a local gym. I also do a lot of bike riding with my husband. It helps somewhat. There is someone at the gym that I work out with sometimes. He also belongs to the same organization. He's more interested in working out with his cheerleader friend, but that's ok. If she isn't around he will work out with me. He's almost like a trainer as he shows me a lot of great exercises and helps me out. He knows my husband pretty well and sometimes we all talk after concerts.
Posted by fleeting flutterby on July 2, 2008, at 9:42:00
In reply to Re: Depression, posted by cherrybomb on July 2, 2008, at 8:33:30
Hi again,
I hope you can take this for the way it is intended-- supportive and trying to be helpful-- What I've seen in what you've said so far is kind of interesting-- you've yet to mention anything about a female friend-- you seem to be searching for a MALE friend-- could it be that you are searching for a male that will fill in the gaps that you may feel your husband doesn't fill? just something to ponder......
have to go to work now.... hope to be back on sometime later today....
chow
flutterby-mandy
Posted by cherrybomb on July 2, 2008, at 9:54:00
In reply to Re: Depression » cherrybomb, posted by fleeting flutterby on July 2, 2008, at 9:42:00
I have nothing against female friends at all, I just can't seem to find one, though I do try. It does seem that there are more men who seem more receptive to having a conversation with me than women. I'm conscious of not being a wallflower and I do have good conversations. Last night my husband and I stopped at a local bar where members stopped after a concert and I was very talkative and I had a great time. But once again, the two women who were there just kept to themselves. The one husband tried to include his wife in the conversation, but she didn't seem interested. I tried talking to her, but she wasn't receptive. The women in the group I belong to are less social and don't seem to be interested in hanging out. I don't know why the women are less lively and talkative than the guys. I always seem to have better luck talking to the guys, I don't plan it that way, it just seems to happen that way.
Posted by nfc on July 3, 2008, at 7:50:05
In reply to Re: Depression, posted by cherrybomb on July 2, 2008, at 9:54:00
hi cherrybomb,
fleeting flutterby gave good advice along the lines that I was wondering about as well. things about finding something in other male friends that you may not be finding in your husband. alot of the stuff that happened to you when you were younger does impact you now as well. first things first is to find a way to help thy self. 2nd is to talk to your husband about your thoughts and needs. bring it up in a way that doesn't put him on the hot seat, u gotta figure that out since u best know him. try and find ways to give back to him and hopefully this can in turn prompt him to give back to you. you can try therapy, count the cost - can get expensive. but this is to sort out any issues you have w/ anything and then go back to the drawing board which is time spent alone pondering and work things out w/ your husband and then onto the rest of the world including your social life. just my 2 cents. sorry if i hit a nerve. take care and wish you the best.
nfc
Posted by Cherrybomb on July 3, 2008, at 10:05:48
In reply to Re: Depression » cherrybomb, posted by nfc on July 3, 2008, at 7:50:05
I always kind of wondered why he wasn't willing to set any boundaries. I tried a few years ago. I said that my emails should be short and positive, less personal,or maybe just forwarding jokes as I do with others. His response was that he didn't mind listening to me. He thought that setting boundaries or laying down the rules so to speak would make him intractable. He has even said at one time he doesn't want lines to be drawn. Why not? Don't we all need boundaries to be established in order to maintain a happy, healthy friendship? (or any other relationship.)He may realize that now, I don't know. My emotional state was weak. Because there were no boundaries and he unintentionally encouraged me by saying he doesn't mind listening to me, I took advantage of this simply because I liked having someone listen to me. Perhaps a bit selfish. I felt like I was the secret email friend that he would hang onto until things got more serious with his girlfriend. This took 6 years. I gotta give her credit for waiting that long for him to get divorced and buy his own house. Hope it's worth it. The point is, because no boundaries were ever established, even though I tried, and deep down I figured it would be best, things have disintegrated to the point where he basically ignores me. It's hurtful to see him ignore me every week. I understand why. At one time I said that I care (in a non-sexual way) and I was obviously upset, but I'm afraid that this made the situation worse. I want to talk, I would like things to be better, I want to resolve things, but it seems I'm going to have to force myself to pretend that everything is fine everytime I go to rehearsals or concerts. I'm going to have to pretend to be happy and talk to others as I have been. I guess I have to force myself to say nothing more than hello. I guess the point is, I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to act. Acting desperate or pathetic doesn't help, but I don't want people to think that I don't care either, so It seems I'm kind of stuck as far as what to do. I'm sure that in his case, ignoring me is his defense mechanism. Perhaps it's a mistake to say how I feel, I don't know. I just know that I don't want things to be like this forever. I don't know if it's a bad idea to say that I never intended for things to be this way. I never intended to take advantage of his kindness. I never meant to make his relationship more complicated, I never meant for things to be the way they are. I never meant to be defensive and end up saying things that I shouldn't have said. He won't admit it, but I know that this was very hurtful and was probably the biggest friendship killer. I don't really want to be best friends, but it's hurtful to know that he won't even be social if I'm around. It makes me think that I should quit the ensemble, but this seems irresponsible as I'm a valuable member and a member of the board of directors. I don't want to feel this way forever, I don't know how to get to the point where we can have a simple, non-threatening conversation. I don't know if it does any good to say that I care and I want to try to do what's best.
Posted by fayeroe on July 3, 2008, at 13:26:52
In reply to Re: Depression, posted by Cherrybomb on July 3, 2008, at 10:05:48
I am not trying to upset you...or argue with you, but I am giving you my perspective on what you are telling us about this man...I'm older than dirt, so I hope that you will understand that I'm coming from a different place in life experience than you.
> I always kind of wondered why he wasn't willing to set any boundaries. I tried a few years ago.
*****Why were you laying the responsibility of boundaries off on him? We have a responsibility for all kinds of boundaries in our lives. Particulary when it comes to a friendship with someone who "oh, if boundaries are involved, our friendship won't be was good as it is now" I realize you might not have realized it, but he was "grooming and manipulating" you to get you where he wanted you to be. Compliant.Dependent.*****
I said that my emails should be short and positive, less personal,or maybe just forwarding jokes as I do with others. His response was that he didn't mind listening to me. He thought that setting boundaries or laying down the rules so to speak would make him intractable. He has even said at one time he doesn't want lines to be drawn.
*****He didn't want "lines" to be drawn. I wonder why that is?*****
Why not? Don't we all need boundaries to be established in order to maintain a happy, healthy friendship? (or any other relationship.)He may realize that now, I don't know. My emotional state was weak. Because there were no boundaries and he unintentionally encouraged me by saying he doesn't mind listening to me, I took advantage of this simply because I liked having someone listen to me.
*****I differ big time on this one...he didn't "untentionally" encourage you....It is called manipulating another person to gain an advantage in the relationship."
Perhaps a bit selfish. I felt like I was the secret email friend that he would hang onto until things got more serious with his girlfriend. This took 6 years.
*****"Secret email friend"....Please don't ever again be someone's secret email friend. Your husband knew, but this dude kept it secret? *****
I gotta give her credit for waiting that long for him to get divorced and buy his own house. Hope it's worth it. The point is, because no boundaries were ever established, even though I tried, and deep down I figured it would be best, things have disintegrated to the point where he basically ignores me. It's hurtful to see him ignore me every week. I understand why. At one time I said that I care (in a non-sexual way) and I was obviously upset, but I'm afraid that this made the situation worse.*****Why is it hurtful for a man who snuck around, cheated and lied to more than just you,to ignore you? I want you to count your blessings on this one.******
*****You are the victim here. Don't worry about him and the situation. Worry and care enough for yourself to change the rules on this game he's played with you for 6 years.*****
I want to talk, I would like things to be better, I want to resolve things, but it seems I'm going to have to force myself to pretend that everything is fine everytime I go to rehearsals or concerts. I'm going to have to pretend to be happy and talk to others as I have been. I guess I have to force myself to say nothing more than hello. I guess the point is, I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to act. Acting desperate or pathetic doesn't help, but I don't want people to think that I don't care either, so It seems I'm kind of stuck as far as what to do. I'm sure that in his case, ignoring me is his defense mechanism. Perhaps it's a mistake to say how I feel, I don't know. I just know that I don't want things to be like this forever. I don't know if it's a bad idea to say that I never intended for things to be this way. I never intended to take advantage of his kindness. I never meant to make his relationship more complicated, I never meant for things to be the way they are. I never meant to be defensive and end up saying things that I shouldn't have said. He won't admit it, but I know that this was very hurtful and was probably the biggest friendship killer.*****Please re-read what you said in the above paragraph. If you have to, print it out and read it several times during the day. What friendship did you kill?*****
I don't really want to be best friends, but it's hurtful to know that he won't even be social if I'm around. It makes me think that I should quit the ensemble, but this seems irresponsible as I'm a valuable member and a member of the board of directors.*****You are giving this man permission to cause you to make changes in your life...for him? If anyone should quit the ensemble, let him.*****
I don't want to feel this way forever, I don't know how to get to the point where we can have a simple, non-threatening conversation. I don't know if it does any good to say that I care and I want to try to do what's best.
****In my experience, the ONLY person we can change, is ourselves.I feel like you're content to beat your head against this brick wall until you end up beaten down.*****
1. Did something happen to you in your childhood that could have caused you to feel de-valued?
2. Did it get get resolved?
3. Therapy, individual for you.
4. You're in charge.Unless you let someone else keep taking your power from you.....
Posted by Cherrybomb on July 3, 2008, at 14:40:31
In reply to Depression » Cherrybomb, posted by fayeroe on July 3, 2008, at 13:26:52
I don't know why I beat myself up. I don't know why this whole stupid thing has bothered me so much. The one thing I can remember is that my mom always made excuses for me. If I didn't say hello within one second she would say "why don't you say hello" or "she's just shy." I hated this to the point where I just stopped trying to be polite because I felt she was trying to force me. My brother was always the smart one. If he didn't succeed it was because he didn't try hard enough, if I didn't succeed it was because "I just wasn't good at math" or whatever. I knew it was really because I didn't study hard enough. Combine that with always being unpopular and picked on and you end up with someone with very poor social skills. I don't know. I let this guy damage my self-esteem and I don't know why. I was obviously clinging on to what I thought was a friend. He did try to defend our friendship and he says that he talked to his girlfriend a few times about it, but I don't think he's totally innocent. He wants to blame the two of us by saying we are antagonistic and controlling. I don't really know how I let this get to me. I suppose now would be a good time to thank you for listening. I had contemplated quitting the ensemble, but then that means he wins and I lose. I suppose I can't keep rambling on about this forever. I think it's pretty common for the average female to try to figure things out by talking.
This is the end of the thread.
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