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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Kim(for my hubby Brendan) on November 3, 2000, at 10:41:21
Hi Everyone,
I'm writing partly on behalf of myself, but also on behalf of my wonderful husband Brendan.
In 1998 something personally traumatic happened that caused what we think was Brendy's first MAJOR "manic high" episode which resulted in the diagnosis of Bipolar. While some of this certainly made sense with regards to his rapid talking, excessive energy, "high" moods agression (both verbally, physically ie while driving, with others) the part that didn't make much sense was the depression... I can't honestly think of that many times when he was "truly depressed" and neither can he. Brendan ended up in hospital for quite a while, on heavy medication which completely changed the person that he was.. he could barely talk, let alone think or walk... it took him 3/4 of a day to sit and weed a patch of garden bed less than a metre wide. HE HATED IT and so did I. The trouble is he liked(and still does the highs)- (I find this hard to understand but am trying). One of the things that Brendan discovered was that he would get an incredible ability to write "STUFF" all kinds of different things. In a few hours he would write 10-20 pages of info on things he had no prior knowledge or formal learning of.. This he finds very disturbing as he does not know where all this info comes from. One of the most distressing things (for me and his friends anyway) is his obsession with religion and god. The first time Brendy was convinced that he was Jesus or god reborn and started to talk to groups of people, write incredible things. call hundreds of people on the phone... want to talk to the pope...etc... it goes on... my questions are;;;
Have any of you had similar experiences?
Did any of you write pages of your "thoughts" or "things you have been told by a voice"
Brendan refuses to go on medication because of the last episode in hospital... naturally he's frightened and does not want to be on drugs... he feels that he can control this himself...
His latest Manic High only a few days ago sent me into a mad panic and frightened some of our "new friends" off(we've moved state as after what happened before we thought a new start would be good. While that seems to be over (with a minor low now) I am still concerned that this will happen again... I don't want to see him drugged up like he was before... but I want to help him.. we have 2 beautiful children who adore him and I love him dearly.. but I could do with some words of advice.... I don't doubt that when Brendan finds this web site he will want to write to you and ask some questions too...... hope I haven't babbled on too much
yours in advance
Kim
Posted by shellie on November 3, 2000, at 15:44:06
In reply to Can anyone help with some questions please, posted by Kim(for my hubby Brendan) on November 3, 2000, at 10:41:21
Hi Kim. I haven't experienced mania or psychotic thinking, although I had an old boyfriend who would become psychotic and also hated the meds.
But that was quite a while ago. There are many alternatives in the drug department these days, and your husband should not assume that "overmedication" is the only choice he has. Lots of hospitals overmedicate because it makes life easier for the medical staff. I would start all over with a doctor (maybe one associated with a university) and go for a consultation with your husband. The consultation could be about whether to try medication again, and how could things be different medically this time. Medication often has to be adjusted and readjusted for manic depressive to find a balance. Your husband is also going through psychic episodes.
It is not unusual for people who experience mania to miss it when medication blocks it. So I think your husband has to really understand how his manic behavior affects you and your children, as well as himself.
I don't believe your husband's dilemma is going to resolve itself--generally it has a tendency to become more pronounced. I think you've got to get him to go to a psychiatrist or psychopharmacologist(a psychiatrist who specializes in medication). He doesn't need to make a decision about taking medication until he hears what the doctor has to say.
Shellie
Posted by pullmarine on November 3, 2000, at 19:31:25
In reply to Can anyone help with some questions please, posted by Kim(for my hubby Brendan) on November 3, 2000, at 10:41:21
Hi Kim
>
> Have any of you had similar experiences?YES!
>
> Did any of you write pages of your "thoughts" or "things you have been told by a voice"
YES!
>
> Brendan refuses to go on medication because of the last episode in hospital... naturally he's frightened and does not want to be on drugs... he feels that he can control this himself...
Quite understandeable!! >I could do with some words of advice....
1. Learn to recognize symptoms of deprression, and get some info on suicide prevention techniques.
2. Encourage him to see a doc, even if he doesn't want to take meds. encourage him and his doc to come up with agreements as to how things should be handled in a worst case scenario, so that if he is hospitalized and irrational, they not do anything he does not want done (for instance, fill him up with haldol or risperdal).
>
3. There are many people who learn to recognize upcoming illnesses, and take the meds only when the symptoms begin to appear as a preventive measure.4. I don't take meds (except for dexadrine, which I want to quit as well), and so far so good. I actually do know of people who do not need to take any meds, despite diagnoses of bi-polar.
5. Respect his wishes, no matter what they are. Ultimately, it's his life and his body.
I send my love and support to u both.
john
Posted by Noa on November 4, 2000, at 10:57:16
In reply to Re: Can anyone help with some questions please, posted by pullmarine on November 3, 2000, at 19:31:25
I agree that there are many more choices of meds now than there were then. Plus, that particular hospital's approach may not have been the right one. I would recommend asking around for names of good psychiatrists who are known to be good at respecting patients and working with them collaboratively. Then, interview a couple of them to see if you like them.
The thing about NOT treating this is that there are studies showing that going without treatment can lead to a worsening course of the illness over time. I think that if your husband can feel more in control, like knowing it is his decision, and that consulting a doctor doesn't obligate him to follow that doctor's recommendations, maybe he will be more open to exploring what options he has.
Also, for both of you, and even if he refuses any support or treatment, there are good support networks around the country of people with affective disorders, and for family members. Try looking up:
DRADA (Depression and Related Affective Disorders Association)
and
National Depression Manic Depression Association
Posted by shar on November 6, 2000, at 23:12:52
In reply to Can anyone help with some questions please, posted by Kim(for my hubby Brendan) on November 3, 2000, at 10:41:21
Not wanting to paint your situation with too broad a brush, if your husband continues to do things that are uncomfortable enough to scare your friends (and you), you need to have a plan for leaving the scene for a while with your children.
This is only to say that any behaviors that are too loud, too aggressive, too physical (even if it doesn't involve harm to a person), too scary...you do not need to (and perhaps should not) expose your children to, nor do you need the trauma and stress.
Have a plan, a place to go, even if it is a shelter, a bag packed for your children ready to go, and leave if you are too uncomfortable. Don't wait until you are shaking with fear, or panicked. Leave when you think "this is not good for me or the kids."
There are probably hundreds of options for you to explore along these lines, and I encourage you to have a simple, clear plan to carry out at a moment's notice.
I may be overreacting, but I think trauma-wise and safety-wise, as long as he is not doing anything about his condition, you need to be ready to protect the little ones (and yourself, of course).
Shar
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I'm writing partly on behalf of myself, but also on behalf of my wonderful husband Brendan.
>
> In 1998 something personally traumatic happened that caused what we think was Brendy's first MAJOR "manic high" episode which resulted in the diagnosis of Bipolar. While some of this certainly made sense with regards to his rapid talking, excessive energy, "high" moods agression (both verbally, physically ie while driving, with others) the part that didn't make much sense was the depression... I can't honestly think of that many times when he was "truly depressed" and neither can he. Brendan ended up in hospital for quite a while, on heavy medication which completely changed the person that he was.. he could barely talk, let alone think or walk... it took him 3/4 of a day to sit and weed a patch of garden bed less than a metre wide. HE HATED IT and so did I. The trouble is he liked(and still does the highs)- (I find this hard to understand but am trying). One of the things that Brendan discovered was that he would get an incredible ability to write "STUFF" all kinds of different things. In a few hours he would write 10-20 pages of info on things he had no prior knowledge or formal learning of.. This he finds very disturbing as he does not know where all this info comes from. One of the most distressing things (for me and his friends anyway) is his obsession with religion and god. The first time Brendy was convinced that he was Jesus or god reborn and started to talk to groups of people, write incredible things. call hundreds of people on the phone... want to talk to the pope...etc... it goes on... my questions are;;;
>
> Have any of you had similar experiences?
>
> Did any of you write pages of your "thoughts" or "things you have been told by a voice"
>
> Brendan refuses to go on medication because of the last episode in hospital... naturally he's frightened and does not want to be on drugs... he feels that he can control this himself...
>
> His latest Manic High only a few days ago sent me into a mad panic and frightened some of our "new friends" off(we've moved state as after what happened before we thought a new start would be good. While that seems to be over (with a minor low now) I am still concerned that this will happen again... I don't want to see him drugged up like he was before... but I want to help him.. we have 2 beautiful children who adore him and I love him dearly.. but I could do with some words of advice.... I don't doubt that when Brendan finds this web site he will want to write to you and ask some questions too...... hope I haven't babbled on too much
>
> yours in advance
>
> Kim
Posted by Emmanuela on November 7, 2000, at 0:23:27
In reply to Safety First for You and Kiddos-Am I Overreacting?, posted by shar on November 6, 2000, at 23:12:52
Shar, and Kim - I agree with you completely. But Shar, where were you in 1969 when I needed you to tell me that? Kim, you can still love Brendan with all your heart, but take care of you and your children. I think Shar has given excellent advice.
Emmanuela
Posted by Mark H. on November 7, 2000, at 18:38:40
In reply to Can anyone help with some questions please, posted by Kim(for my hubby Brendan) on November 3, 2000, at 10:41:21
Dear Kim,
All of your husband's symptoms are quite common in bipolar disorder, including heightened religiosity, delusions of grandeur, rapid flights of thought (accompanied with furious writing), mixed states of mania/anger/aggression, calling hundreds of people on the phone, wanting to talk to the Pope, everything! The good news is that there is nothing unique or new about what your husband is experiencing.
To help put it into perspective, you may want to see if the library has books on Manic Depressive Illness, particularly Goodman and James' textbook by that title (Oxford University Press), and James' own annoying but informative autobiography, which offers an inside view of what it's like to be a manic depressive. You'll also learn that many if not most of the great authors, composers, and artists whom we revere suffered from the same disease.
From what I've read and experienced, full blown psychotic mania is not much fun -- there's just too much going on all at once, and behavior becomes destructive (outrageous spending, inappropriate sexuality, boundless middle-of-the-night "big ideas," out of control anger, 10 mental tracks going all at once like vivid movies with the volume turned up too much). However, at some point on the way up, the sensations are just incredible, beyond most people's wildest ideas of what the greatest feelings in the world could be like. Unfortunately, by the time one is there, few people have the presence of mind to say, "OK, I guess I better shut this down, because where it's going won't be so pleasant in another 24 hours."
The choice to medicate usually comes from bitter experience. Who would choose being stupid, lethargic, vaguely poisoned, and emotionally dull over being the most witty, intelligent, charming, attractive and best-informed person in the world? Even if being the latter could put you irreparably into debt, ruin your family, and endanger your own and others' lives? Well, there's the rub, isn't it?
In her autobiography (someone help me with the title, please -- I've got it at home), James describes how after she went on lithium, she wasn't able to read for about 10 years. Right.
I think what Noa was referring to is a new class of anti-psychotics that are also being used as monotherapy (with success) for bi-polar disorder, such as Zyprexa. It may be possible for your husband to take something like Zyprexa when he needs it, although conventional wisdom still claims that severe bi-polar disorder requires daily medication for life.
Please read more and learn more, get support, and as others mentioned, learn what you need to do to help prevent suicide and harm to yourself. If he's willing, make clear and firm contracts when he is normal about what you will do when he is manic. These may include his giving you the "right" to decide when to have him hospitalized or at least put on medication. If he participates in the contract and agreement now, it will help him not to feel betrayed when you invoke the terms later.
Good luck, and please let us know what you learn.
Best wishes,
Mark H.
Posted by judy1 on November 8, 2000, at 13:08:56
In reply to Can anyone help with some questions please, posted by Kim(for my hubby Brendan) on November 3, 2000, at 10:41:21
Dear Kim,
What worked for my last manic episode:
I had a very good therapeutic alliance with my psychiatrist (who unfortunately lives too far from me now) which also involved my husband's input. I agreed (while in a low) to give my husband permission to contact my shrink when he noticed manic behavior- which is very obvious with me- not unlike your husband's symptoms, I too have a direct relationship with God, write screenplays, spend, gamble, etc. My husband called my shrink who then insisted he bring me in (which I felt was a complete conspiracy, since I was fine and obviously they were not). I was given risperdal and fairly high doses of depakote- orally and no hospitals. By the next day I was somewhat reasonable, and in 2 days all symptoms were gone. As someone who has been hospitalized against my will on more than one occasion, I was incredibly grateful afterwards for their efforts. While your husband is down, now is a good time to get something in place. I think you got some great advice in your other replies; the book Mark was alluding to is called "An Unquiet Mind". I wish you all the best- Judy
Posted by dj on November 9, 2000, at 12:48:27
In reply to Re: Can anyone help with some questions please » Kim(for my hubby Brendan), posted by judy1 on November 8, 2000, at 13:08:56
> the book Mark was alluding to is called "An >Unquiet Mind". I wish you all the best- Judy
by Kay Redfield-Jamison
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