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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Sulpicia on March 16, 2001, at 22:00:30
Hello from the special circle of he## reserved for people
IDIOTIC enough to go to grad school. So here I sit, with ADD
and depression [well treated w/adderall and tofranil and pdoc].
The pressure is unbelievable -- the powers that be put me up
for a bunch of big name fellowships, which of course demand
a dissertation chapter IN THIRTEEN DAYS.Any experiences? Funny stories??
I sure could use them. Seems like the harder I push, the worse
I feel. Maybe it has something to do with lack of sleep? :):)Argh.
S.
Posted by Shar on March 16, 2001, at 23:26:59
In reply to Any writers, academic or otherwise???, posted by Sulpicia on March 16, 2001, at 22:00:30
> Hello from the special circle of he## reserved for people
> IDIOTIC enough to go to grad school.......
>
> Argh.
> S.S - I feel your pain. After getting my doctorate I taught a class for a while on writing a dissertation or thesis. Some time later I sent a friend of mine the following letter that includes some of the stuff from the class. This friend wanted to write a book, and this was my advice.
Good luck to you!
SDear X,
I wanted to write to you about your writing. You may hate this, I don't know how you feel about "advice" .....but, the good thing about advice is that you don't have to take it!In the "finish your dissertation class" I taught, a lot of focus was on writing, because people would get stuck, or their expectations were high as the moon, or the very idea was unpleasant because they thought this was to be their magnum opus. In other words, they had beliefs that were stopping them. Obviously these people were capable, as I wholeheartedly believe you are, but their thoughts were getting in the way. They were used to being able to ace about anything, as I believe you were, yet here was this "thing" that was insurmountable.
I used to tell them that you can't write a dissertation. My god, a dissertation is equivalent to a book. They could write two pages on their method, or a couple of paragraphs on the stats they used, or 4 pages on their conclusions. But they couldn't write a dissertation. The idea, as you've figured out, is that the two pages turn into four, the paragraphs turn into pages, the pages turn into chapters.
So, what it really took to have enough words on paper was perseverence and tenacity. Not a huge IQ--that mattered much less. It was a willingness to plug away, write the two paragraphs, even if they were pure, unadulterated shit, and keep going. They did not need to--and I told them they should not ever--stop to edit a first draft. They should not expect their first draft to be perfect. That is why it is a draft.
The first time someone sits down to write, the real goal is to get their ideas on paper. For some, it takes the form of a document (sentences, paragraphs, etc.). For some, it is a string of sentences of things they want to touch on. For some it is an outline. It serves to anchor one's thoughts, and perhaps chunk or organize them. That's all. What are the important points? Not every single important point, some will come later--but, at this moment, what does the writer want to say? Does it help to chunk things in chronological order? Are there chunks that are different, but will tied together in the end? Are there chunks that lead to other chunks (like in a diss you go from general discussion, to statement of the problem, to hypotheses, etc.). Whatever. A first draft doesn't have to make sense to anyone except the writer. And, it is not necessary to have every idea that you start with end up in the final product.
A lot of people also had the idea that when they started writing they had to start with chapter one, and go through step-by-step to chapter 7 or 8. People did not always know you don't have to start at the beginning. This leads to another idea---do whatever is easiest first. A lot of people resisted these ideas. They (being students) were used to writing in a very specific format, so letting loose of that was hard. But, I would go around and ask students what part of their diss jazzed them the most? What was it they were wanting to write about? It differed widely for people, but the point was that the part they were jazzed about was where they should put their energy--start with that.
Being jazzed about writing something meant it was probably easier to write. Start with whatever is easiest first. If they were writing and had a blank spot, they wrote blank spot. By and large, these folks had time to do the minimum of three drafts that I said would probably be required. There was no reason to force words out, to squeeze out something that wouldn't flow with their document. They would go back later, and the words for that blank spot would come. And what about the hard stuff? Well, there is a sort of hierarchy. You start with the easiest. When that's done you go to the next easiest. That's done, go to next easiest. Finally, there may be one thing left--that used to be the hardest thing. Now it is the easiest.
Another idea that caused folks discomfort was: there is no one right way. In school, and often in life, we are taught there IS one right way to do something. Ie, the starting at page one and ending with the end as a writing process. However, what they did in their private times in their homes, or offices, was nobody's business. Whatever it took to get ready to write, was ok. If they needed to be nekkid on a bed of bubble wrap, fine. And the writing was the same. If they needed at first to write using "I" (taboo in journals as you probably know), fine, no problem. That can be taken care of later. No biggie. The voice did not have to be consistent, the persona they took--while good to be aware of it--did not matter, they could abandon all jargon, they could drop the embroidery, they could just tell their story.
I could say more, but I think this is a good stopping point.
.....just tell your story. It is inside of you. It will come out as all things inside of us do--haltingly at times, easily at times, not in chronological order usually, and with surprise at times. Your first draft is to try to touch on those things. Your second draft is probably get them more into the order you want. Your third draft, probably will have most of what you want to say in it, but it will not be perfect. DO NOT show anyone your first or second draft for critique. Only the third for critique. Then, you work on that.
.....you write about what is easiest for you to write about now.....
Love, Shar
Posted by coral on March 17, 2001, at 8:38:26
In reply to Re: Any writers..... » Sulpicia, posted by Shar on March 16, 2001, at 23:26:59
Whew! Shar, what wonderful advice!!!!!
As a survivor of the grad school's whipsaw, and as a writer, both of non-fiction and fiction, may I suggest the following points that support everything Shar said.
1. Get a copy of Jeff Wayne's musical version of "The War Of The Worlds", narrated by Richard Burton. (It's available on CD-ROM). For this purpose, the value is not in the story but in the power of words.
2. As Shar suggested, do NOT stop when writing the first draft for ANY editing. If you see something egregious as you're going through, make a note (Post-it's are great...) A NYC editor suggests even turning off the monitor.
3. Do whatever you have to do to get to your "true voice."
A. For me, that means getting rid of distractions, like telephone, business colleagues, family members, shutting the office door, and wearing headphones with music that distracts the "hypercritical" conscious mind.
B. Don't search for "impressive" sounding words, but do search for the "right" word. (This is important during your first draft by letting the words flow, and especially important in the editing phase.)
4. When you start editing, read it aloud with a red pen in your hand.
Good luck!!!
Posted by seedwoman on March 17, 2001, at 19:26:24
In reply to Re: Any writers....., posted by coral on March 17, 2001, at 8:38:26
As a dissertation survivor and one with a successful academic career, I agree heartily with Shar and Coral. What I tell my students is: the most important characteristic of your dissertation is that it is your ticket to a Ph.D. (not to say that quality is unimportant, but by this stage you will write something defensible--just resist the temptation to perfect it or think of it as your life's work). Think of it as a tool. If it helps, think of it as your enemy. You will defeat it.
Also: all those pieces/parts do indeed add up into a whole big document. If you are daunted by the idea of something so big, just focus on completing parts of it.
One day the diss. will appear as an attainable goal. You will see the light at the end of the tunnel, and you will haul ass.
Many times I have seen students finish *only* after they isolate themselves from all distractions and do nothing but write. And if you just put one sentence on paper every single day, it will get finished.I realize that the ADD makes the work that much harder for you, and I know that must be very frustrating. do the meds help at all with that?
something struck me about your message--it gives the impression that you are helpless in the face of the "powers that be". Yes, grad school is full of pressures and you don't get no respect, but you have a will and are capable of choosing. Nobody can put you up for a fellowship against your will. For particular and no doubt very good reasons, you have placed yourself in a position in which you feel a great deal of pressure to conform to other people's expectations. There's nothing wrong with this, but it might help to recognize it as a choice & thereby realize that you do, in fact, have the power to change things.
I don't say this to be mean or derisive. It is just something I've learned through my own experience.good luck. you will get there. it is, at the end, a question of sheer determination and refusal to give up.
Posted by pandora on March 18, 2001, at 0:18:58
In reply to Any writers, academic or otherwise???, posted by Sulpicia on March 16, 2001, at 22:00:30
What are you getting your degree in? And what's the subject of the diss.?
> Hello from the special circle of he## reserved for people
> IDIOTIC enough to go to grad school. So here I sit, with ADD
> and depression [well treated w/adderall and tofranil and pdoc].
> The pressure is unbelievable -- the powers that be put me up
> for a bunch of big name fellowships, which of course demand
> a dissertation chapter IN THIRTEEN DAYS.
>
> Any experiences? Funny stories??
> I sure could use them. Seems like the harder I push, the worse
> I feel. Maybe it has something to do with lack of sleep? :):)
>
> Argh.
> S.
Posted by Sulpicia on March 20, 2001, at 22:28:04
In reply to Re: Any writers....., posted by seedwoman on March 17, 2001, at 19:26:24
> Gosh. What wonderful support! Thank you all so very much.
This is the first time I ever printed out responses from a board.
I'm feeling a bit more confident now; a bit of sleep and some concrete
advice, and a good meal do help.
And to answer your questions [if memory serves]: the pstim makes the ADD
all but gone. Ironically I wasn't even diagnosed until the reading for
my general exams forced me to admit my "study techniques" were a cumbersome
compensation for ADD and a bit of dyslexia. Convincing a pdoc of this
was a trip tho.
As for the fellowship and toeing the dept line -- I've already deviated
by my gender, age, being a mom of 2 kids, an excellent and caring teacher
whose office is overrun by undergrads. My interests are pretty "unusual"
for my field. They've cut me all the slack they can. The nomination means
a great deal, the end of a long battle etc., so I will not disappoint.
And when you get right down to it, it's only 5 pages a day to hit what
I thought was a ridiculous target. I'll manage.It's funny how wacked out we[students here] get from working and fretting
in total isolation. We don't stop to realize that everyone has thoughts like
this to some degree. Duh.As for the topic, I would love to tell you *all* about it, but my field is super-small
and the search engines would pick it up in no time flat and then I'd be dead, career-wise.Thank you, thank you again.
I'll post when I hand the beast in.
S. :)
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