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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by DarkWind on April 17, 2001, at 15:00:29
another question that's been nagging my mind is this: what did they do in the "old days" before psychology or psychiatry, to cope with or get over depression?
the time period i'm talking about would be prior to the time when they felt like anyone "different" was possessed, or some other such rubbish. other cultures beside european, too - what did they do? you don't hear a whole lot about depression among these people.
another thread had an interesting response to it - something about how committing suicide was seen as honorable in some cultures - and i think this is a very good point.
has depression increased in society over the past few centuries, is it more prevalent in some cultures than in others? if so, what are these other cultures doing that we aren't?
Posted by stjames on April 17, 2001, at 22:29:51
In reply to Another Question, posted by DarkWind on April 17, 2001, at 15:00:29
> another question that's been nagging my mind is this: what did they do in the "old days" before psychology or psychiatry, to cope with or get over depression?
>James here.....
They didn't. They locked the "crazy" up. They did not talk about it. They saw the devil in the mentally ill. They feared us. Injected us with Insulin to induce insulin coma and seizures. Removed parts of the brain (look up the button hook operation and prefrontal lobotomy) so we did
not bother anyone. Tied us up and left us alone in our own filth. Ah, the good old days !This is why I get very angry when people bitch about whatever side effects they have and want to mount a law suit. ~50 years ago they shoved a button hook like long needle up into the brain(going through the area where the eyebrow meets the nose) and destroyed part of the frontal lobes
forever eraseing personality. I am thankful, very thankful, that we have come so far in 50 years, side effects and all.james
Posted by mila on April 18, 2001, at 0:22:23
In reply to Another Question, posted by DarkWind on April 17, 2001, at 15:00:29
Hi DarkWind,
every society so far has dealt with depression according to one of three models of understanding: supernatural, biological, or psychological. so you either see a magician or a healer of some sort, or drink potions and/or alter your diet, or become psychologically treated in a different way (sent to live in a country, subjected to storytelling, etc.).
you do not hear much about depression in other cultures because it goes there by different names. instead of talking about the depression many people describe its physical symptoms and are treated accordingly. Feeling of weekness and tiredness that is accompanied by mental or physical slowing down or retardation might be called 'heartbroken' (among Hopi), or loss of meaning of life ( in societies that focus on the group instead of individual), or creative illness, or mourning/grief, etc.
Since depression is substantially genetically determined, its prevalence doesn't change much across cultures or times within a given adult age/sex group. But in western societies today there is a trend for an earlier onset of depression, and a substantial increase in depression among elderly (mostly, because our population is aging and the structure of family life too).
I think cultures value suicide only if the society is benefitting from it in some way. When elderly or widows are expected to commit suicide, for example in some cultures. Or when you are expected to go on a suicide mission in times of war in the name of your country. Suicide that doesn't benefit the community has always been seen as "throwing the baby out with the bath water", as a mistake, at least, as a regretful event, or as a plain stupidity. there are as many reactions as people around. In cultures that are aware of a heritability of a major depressive illness for the siblings of a deceased it would be much more difficult to marry.
mila
Posted by mila on April 18, 2001, at 0:26:47
In reply to Re: Another Question, posted by stjames on April 17, 2001, at 22:29:51
Thank you, James,
today I was feeling somewhat down, and reading your post helped me to start counting my blessings :)
thank you
mila
Posted by mikes on April 18, 2001, at 13:55:54
In reply to Re: Another Question, posted by stjames on April 17, 2001, at 22:29:51
That's strange, I had previously believed that opium was used as long as a century ago to treat depression. Cocaine extracts may have been used also.
St. John's Wort has been in use for many, many years in Europe.
> > another question that's been nagging my mind is this: what did they do in the "old days" before psychology or psychiatry, to cope with or get over depression?
> >
>
> James here.....
>
> They didn't. They locked the "crazy" up. They did not talk about it. They saw the devil in the mentally ill. They feared us. Injected us with Insulin to induce insulin coma and seizures. Removed parts of the brain (look up the button hook operation and prefrontal lobotomy) so we did
> not bother anyone. Tied us up and left us alone in our own filth. Ah, the good old days !
>
> This is why I get very angry when people bitch about whatever side effects they have and want to mount a law suit. ~50 years ago they shoved a button hook like long needle up into the brain(going through the area where the eyebrow meets the nose) and destroyed part of the frontal lobes
> forever eraseing personality. I am thankful, very thankful, that we have come so far in 50 years, side effects and all.
>
> james
Posted by stjames on April 22, 2001, at 1:49:42
In reply to Re: Another Question, posted by mikes on April 18, 2001, at 13:55:54
> That's strange, I had previously believed that opium was used as long as a century ago to treat depression. Cocaine extracts may have been used also.
>
> St. John's Wort has been in use for many, many years in Europe.James here,
Correct, all these were used. My list was not intended to be all inclusive. Before the 1950's and the advent of antipsychotics most all the schizophrenics and many bi-polars were in institutions most of their life. In some cases the care was good. People with really significant mental illness need structure and systems that helped them cope, a good institution could provide this. And then Thorizine was invented.
Thorizine made the insane sane (the schizophrenics) and emptied the institutions.
People who could not care for themselves could now. Patients who were withdrawn or lost in a unreal world came back and started to function. The history of antipsychotics contains an irony. I love irony, it points out the true complexity of all things. A large rise in the homeless coincided with the exodus from the mental institutions. There was no way to make sure the really crazy took their meds so they became homeless. Those with family did better, generally. Someone was there to make sure they took the meds; there is no doubt the quality of their life was drastically improved by meds. No more annoying thought projection and everybody was not out the get them (with a 999 part plan).James
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