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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jane D on June 1, 2001, at 20:24:44
Does anyone have any suggestions on what to tell prospective employers about my past job record? I'm going to be in the job market soon and I have these long periods I wasn't working that will need to be explained. I don't want to lie about it but I'm afraid that telling the truth will guarantee that I don't get hired. I would imagine that most employers don't want to risk hiring someone that they think may have another breakdown. I don't have kids so I can't claim I stayed home to raise them (can I?) and I'm a little too old to pretend I was in school.
Any suggestions on approaches that work, or even just really bad ones to avoid, would be very much appreciated.
Jane
Posted by Willow on June 1, 2001, at 21:14:19
In reply to How do you explain gaps in work history?, posted by Jane D on June 1, 2001, at 20:24:44
There are different types of resumes that you can choose from. If you are going for a specific type of work and have experience in that area, you can highlight this by listing the duties you had and achievements. Good references are important.
On my resume I didn't mark down the months, I just used years.
Does this help?
Willow
Posted by robinibor on June 1, 2001, at 22:31:47
In reply to How do you explain gaps in work history?, posted by Jane D on June 1, 2001, at 20:24:44
The best thing I have found is to say you were taking some time to try your hand at writing, or doing some research for writing on a particular subject. Since even most fiction is semi-autobiographical, whatever was happening to you can be rationalized (if you need to do that to assuage your conscience) as subject material for any writing you might want to attempt ever in the rest of your life...and who's to say you won't ever write that great story.
Posted by shelliR on June 1, 2001, at 23:56:16
In reply to How do you explain gaps in work history?, posted by Jane D on June 1, 2001, at 20:24:44
> Does anyone have any suggestions on what to tell prospective employers about my past job record? I'm going to be in the job market soon and I have these long periods I wasn't working that will need to be explained. I don't want to lie about it but I'm afraid that telling the truth will guarantee that I don't get hired.
Hi Jane. I say go for the lie. You can mention any of the following: illness in the family which you were in the best position to be the caretaker, robinibor's suggestion of writing/resarch, going overseas with your (then) finance' who had a year long job offer which provided you a wonderful opportunity to travel. If you present any of these with confidence and sparkle, I doubt that your time off will be an obstacle.
If you really decide that you don't want to lie, I would use the same strategy. I would say that I had some periods of illness, and again I would say it with the same confident affect. If asked if you are okay now, I would answer, "oh yes, my health is an issue that has been resolved for some time now."
I was always a terrible employee (restless, bored, depressed, or overwhelmed) , but a really good interviewee and got almost every job I ever interviewed for despite a spotty past. Anything you say with confidence, humor, and direct eye contact counts for at least 3/4 of the interview.
BTW, ultimately I believe it is better to be a good employee than a good interviewee; working for (and with) others was very very difficult for me. Now I work for myself, don't always love all the responsibity, but it seems to fit my temperment better.
Shelli
Posted by mila on June 2, 2001, at 0:13:29
In reply to How do you explain gaps in work history?, posted by Jane D on June 1, 2001, at 20:24:44
> Any suggestions on approaches that work, or even just really bad ones to avoid, would be very much appreciated.
>
Hi Jane,Avoid seeing those periods as breakdowns yourself. there MUST have been something positive in those periods. Once you find it out, you won't feel like you had gaps in your life anymore. Also, see your employers as being interested in your job skills and attitudes, not on your health history which is none of their business (in my opinion). Do not give them that much power over you. being too intimate during the first interview stinks anyway even if it is about your wonderful health, not illnesses. Keep it about job. If anything, tell them about your wonderful resilience and ability to keep going even when it gets tough, gather resourses, rely on other people's help and skills, etc. (isn't it how you conquered your illness?) this is an asset.
I totally understand how you feel. I felt this way myself several years ago. Today it doesn't matter anymore. I do not expect people ask me about gaps and I do not see them myself, so I simply fail to represent them in my resume: every year seems today to have been choke full with activity and some productive behavior.
best
mila
Posted by caroline on June 2, 2001, at 3:38:10
In reply to How do you explain gaps in work history?, posted by Jane D on June 1, 2001, at 20:24:44
Hi!
As a Careers Counselor, I see many clients' who need a way of 'filling' such gaps. It is a difficult one. Generally speaking, I wouldn't advise honesty - you might get lucky and be applying to a company where the boss/HR person has experience of mental health problems, but then again, you might not, and unfortunately you're right in thinking that disclosing might prejudice your application.
There are a number of strategies you could use to fill the gaps:
- One straightforward option is to be flexible with dates - for example, stretch periods of past employment out a bit, to fill some of the gaps. The only thing to be wary of with this option is not stretching out anything particularly recent, as this is more likely to be checked out.
- Another option would be to think about something you might have done in those gaps, had you not been suffering - e.g. might you have been having a go at being an author, an artist, a singer, an actress?
- You could also think about voluntary work you might have done - the key to this is to choose something you would be interested in and something that would illustrate to your future employer that you have particular skills/qualitites etc that would be useful to them - for e.g., you might have volunteered as a playworker, at a local hospital, or as a befriender for people with physical or mental illness.
- You could also think about commitments you might have had to relatives - e.g. you could say you had to spend a period of time caring for a parent or sibling with mental or physical illness (which would say a lot about how hard working, motivated, caring etc you are).
Good luck with getting back into employment. I always think that if only people knew just how much strength of character it takes to live with mental illness, you could fill up a resume with all the skills and qualities you have had to develop to effectively live with it!Best Wishes!
Caroline
Posted by Mair on June 2, 2001, at 6:43:44
In reply to Re: How do you explain gaps in work history?, posted by caroline on June 2, 2001, at 3:38:10
Jane - I'm an employer not an employee and I have interviewed tons of people over the last 20 years. I concur with a lot of what's been said here with the caveat that I wouldn't make up any extravagant lies. If you're applying to work in a huge place, maybe it doesn't make a difference. I work in a 9 person office. People are much more convivial and curious about the lives of others. An extravagant lie may draw attention to yourself and be easier to pick up on later. Even if an otherwise happy employer may understand why you did what you did, he still is going to feel a little cheated. You also need a lie that you are comfortable with and that doesn't invite a huge slew of follow-up questions. You don't want to spend the whole interview or the first several weeks of your employment explaining your hiatuses.
We always do ask about gaps, particularly where the person is someone who hasn't stuck with any jobs for a long period of time. I like the idea of being a little vague about the period of time of your gap on your resume, but you'd better be prepared to give more specific dates if asked. The excuse of dealing with family matters seems pretty inocuous altho it's tough for us to evaluate this without knowing more about the frequency and length of your gaps. Sometimes we've been told that someone just didn't get along with a previous employer and they had a mutual parting of the ways. We usually accept that at face value since it's a likely scenario. Unless that person is listed as a reference, we don't bother to call them because we've already been alerted that the recommendation will be negative. Lastly, it goes without saying that make sure you don't list as a reference a previous employer who is familiar with your mental health history, unless it's someone you can absolutely trust to be discrete.
I once hired a secretary who was seemingly coming back into the work force after an 8 year gap, which she explained as raising kids. We talked to the most recent employer she listed and he gave her a glowing recommendation. We hired her and she accepted. The day before she was supposed to start she called us and confessed that in fact she had worked for someone else more recently and had just been convicted and placed on probation for embezzling from her last employer. I think she only called us because it was a condition of her probation that she reveal this information and maybe she feared that her probation officer would call us. This is a very different scenario from yours, and involved a much more serious deception. I just relate it as evidence that sometimes employers are justified in being curious about your personal history and abundantly cautious.
Good Luck
Mair
PS - employers are impressed with people who can speak convincingly and with great self assurance, altho we're quick to pick up on bull____. On a more positive note, if an employer thinks you can do the job, he/she will try to rationalize away any doubts or negative reports.
>
Posted by shelliR on June 2, 2001, at 10:52:26
In reply to A slighty different view, posted by Mair on June 2, 2001, at 6:43:44
Mair,
So what if a perspective employee directly told you that there were gaps due to illness and that illness had been resolved. Would you ask more questions, would you eliminate that person from contention, what would you feel about the person telling you that, if you got good feelings from that person and the person had the skills you wanted?
I ask this realizing that although you understand illness, you need to hire a person who you are confident can get the job done.
Shelli
Posted by shelliR on June 2, 2001, at 10:57:23
In reply to How do you explain gaps in work history?, posted by Jane D on June 1, 2001, at 20:24:44
It seems like almost everyone is telling you that eliminating as many gaps as possible may be your best strategy.
I just thought of one more thing I used, so I thought I'd throw it in the pot. Taking classes to increase increase skills or knowledge. Whenever I couldn't work, I actually did always take a class or two, just to provide structure. I think this is one that you probably have to be able to back up, but can be exaggerated.
Shelli
Posted by stjames on June 2, 2001, at 13:37:31
In reply to Re: How do you explain gaps in work history?, posted by Willow on June 1, 2001, at 21:14:19
> There are different types of resumes that you can choose from. If you are going for a specific type of work and have experience in that area, you can highlight this by listing the duties you had and achievements. Good references are important.
>
> On my resume I didn't mark down the months, I just used years.This is what I do, just list years. I have a big gap from 1995-1999, partially from depression. I tell them I took some time off with money from 401K because I was burned out from management and wanted to learn computer networking, all true. I don't mention the 2 years I did nothing due to depression.
> Does this help?
>
> Willow
Posted by stjames on June 2, 2001, at 13:42:55
In reply to Re: A slighty different view » Mair, posted by shelliR on June 2, 2001, at 10:52:26
> Mair,
>
> So what if a perspective employee directly told you that there were gaps due to illness and that illness had been resolved. Would you ask more questions, would you eliminate that person from contention, what would you feel about the person telling you that, if you got good feelings from that person and the person had the skills you wanted?james here....
It is illegal to ask specific's, only if one is well enough to perform the job.
james
Posted by Jane D on June 3, 2001, at 0:05:51
In reply to Re: How do you explain gaps in work history?, posted by stjames on June 2, 2001, at 13:37:31
Thank you all. Your advice is really helpful. This seems much more manageable after reading your responses. In fact you've been so helpful that now I'm going to have to update my resume and go out and do it. Oh well.
Willow - I'll be revising my resume to focus on skills not dates as you suggested. It seems so obvious now that you have pointed it out.
Mila, ShelliR, Mair - Thanks for the reminder about the importance of making a good impression on the interview.
Robinibor, ShelliR, Caroline, St James - All of your suggestions of things one could have been doing in that time are great. I wish I had done them.
Mair - Thanks for giving an employers point of view. It's good to be reminded that it isn't really "them against us:. I especially liked your footnote -
>On a more positive note, if an employer thinks you can do the job, he/she will try to rationalize away any doubts or negative reports.
I think keeping the above in mind will make it easier to stay poised in interviews. It makes the process seem a bit less adversarial.
I didn't repeat all the suggestions here to save space but I have saved them all to disk so that I can reread them.
Jane
Posted by robinibor on June 3, 2001, at 9:46:14
In reply to Thank you all for your suggestions, posted by Jane D on June 3, 2001, at 0:05:51
Good luck in finding a job that is right for you. Remember you are interviewing them as much as they are you. They would be lucky to get you.
Maybe I missed some earlier posts, but what kind of work do you do?
Again, good luck. I know it can be stressful, so take care of yourself too.
Posted by Willow on June 3, 2001, at 19:56:33
In reply to Good luck in finding one that is right for you., posted by robinibor on June 3, 2001, at 9:46:14
> Good luck in finding a job that is right for you. Remember you are interviewing them as much as they are you. They would be lucky to get you.
>
> Maybe I missed some earlier posts, but what kind of work do you do?
>
> Again, good luck. I know it can be stressful, so take care of yourself too.
Posted by Jane D on June 5, 2001, at 13:13:01
In reply to Re: How do you explain gaps in work history?, posted by mila on June 2, 2001, at 0:13:29
Mila,
Thanks for your very helpful suggestions. I've been thinking for the last few days about your advice to find something positive in the experience. I don't think I agree but it seemed worth a separate thread so I replied below under the heading "Is there a positive side?"http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20010526/msgs/6300.html
I ramble a lot but I'd welcome your comments and criticisms as well as those of anybody else who felt like it.
Jane
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