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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 3 of 3. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JennyR on July 1, 2001, at 11:51:08
There were some postings recently about love, and some of us who don't feel the love we think we should toward spouses and others we're supposed to love.
I don't feel what I think I should toward my husband and parents (though I'm very maternal with my kids).
Then I was thinking about what I've read about depression, how it is not merely sadness, but an inability to feel. Which would explain why those of us with depression perhaps don't feel love strongly. That the flattening across the board includes problems with loving.
But then I wonder why I feel so much toward my therapist. Not beyond the boundaries, but within them, I feel a great deal toward this man who is kinder to me than anyone has ever been. So then I feel maybe it's not that I lack the capacity.
Maybe it's that I never was treated like I mattered much to these people, for whom everything always had to be on their terms, for whom my thoughts and feelings never mattered much.
Then in doing a search, I'm not even sure what I started out looking up, I started finding all these sites about "attachment disorder." Mostly it related to kids adopted from Roumanian orphanages, or kids bounced around foster care here. They have trouble attaching, loving, because the early consistent mother-baby bonding in the early years was absent or substandard.
They then appear to have a lot of what I see in myself - appear charming outwardly, but can't attach on a meaningful level. They have things I don't, like no conscience, but still there are similarities in the indifference to people you are supposed to now love.
Which sort of fits with the environmental approach to looking at depression. Early losses or inadequate early caregiving.
Now I have this therapist who gives me what the early caregiver is supposed to give a baby - mirroring their feelings, total responsiveness, total empathy, consistency. And so here, with him, I can attach and bond strongly. Then I get scared because I'm not used to feeling anything strong for anyone (other than my kids). And I know its because I don't let anyone have much power over me. Which is also like the distrust I was reading about in the attachment disorder stuff ( though 99% of it dealt with kids).
I was raised by natural parents, but in a very unloving household. So I am just thinking out loud here, but maybe depression is a mini form of attachment disorder. And yes, medication/biological/neurotransmitter aspects have a role, and genetic predisposition. Just food for thought.
Posted by AMenz on July 2, 2001, at 9:19:05
In reply to Love, early bonding, attachment, depression, posted by JennyR on July 1, 2001, at 11:51:08
Early loses and inadequate care giving are generally a lot of psychobabble. Plenty of people get raised in families that are not loving and yet do not suffer from depression. Depression is a biochemical illness not a learned state.
Therapists do not have any research to backup their different theories regarding how human being function emotionally. It's a blind alley to look for early childhood phenomenom as the reason why in a depressed state you are unable to love. This is most likely symptomatic of flattened effect. Your therapist is doing what she knows, which does not include treating persistent depresssions.
More helpful is therapy aimed at coping with depressive symptoms, keeping going when you don't feel like it. Organizing your life by breaking it down step by step. People who seek to put a wedge between you and your family of origin in an effort to explain a biological condition are not helping IMHO >
> There were some postings recently about love, and some of us who don't feel the love we think we should toward spouses and others we're supposed to love.
> I don't feel what I think I should toward my husband and parents (though I'm very maternal with my kids).
> Then I was thinking about what I've read about depression, how it is not merely sadness, but an inability to feel. Which would explain why those of us with depression perhaps don't feel love strongly. That the flattening across the board includes problems with loving.
> But then I wonder why I feel so much toward my therapist. Not beyond the boundaries, but within them, I feel a great deal toward this man who is kinder to me than anyone has ever been. So then I feel maybe it's not that I lack the capacity.
> Maybe it's that I never was treated like I mattered much to these people, for whom everything always had to be on their terms, for whom my thoughts and feelings never mattered much.
> Then in doing a search, I'm not even sure what I started out looking up, I started finding all these sites about "attachment disorder." Mostly it related to kids adopted from Roumanian orphanages, or kids bounced around foster care here. They have trouble attaching, loving, because the early consistent mother-baby bonding in the early years was absent or substandard.
> They then appear to have a lot of what I see in myself - appear charming outwardly, but can't attach on a meaningful level. They have things I don't, like no conscience, but still there are similarities in the indifference to people you are supposed to now love.
> Which sort of fits with the environmental approach to looking at depression. Early losses or inadequate early caregiving.
> Now I have this therapist who gives me what the early caregiver is supposed to give a baby - mirroring their feelings, total responsiveness, total empathy, consistency. And so here, with him, I can attach and bond strongly. Then I get scared because I'm not used to feeling anything strong for anyone (other than my kids). And I know its because I don't let anyone have much power over me. Which is also like the distrust I was reading about in the attachment disorder stuff ( though 99% of it dealt with kids).
> I was raised by natural parents, but in a very unloving household. So I am just thinking out loud here, but maybe depression is a mini form of attachment disorder. And yes, medication/biological/neurotransmitter aspects have a role, and genetic predisposition. Just food for thought.
Posted by Marie1 on July 3, 2001, at 8:05:07
In reply to Love, early bonding, attachment, depression, posted by JennyR on July 1, 2001, at 11:51:08
Jenny,
I've been doing a lot of thinking along these lines recently. I don't feel "attached" on a day to day basis with anyone, except my kids. People who have been my friends since childhood don't even seem to matter to me. As for my husband, I basically just tolerate him. Sounds awful, huh? Like, what kind of human am I? I've told my shrink I don't feel "connected" like I think other people do.
Then, just last week, my older brother died. We were the oldest two out of seven. You can't imagine (well, maybe you can) the severity of pain I still feel for this loss. And the weird thing is, I haven't really LIKED this brother since we've been adults. We are poles apart politically, and he really used to annoy me with his very right wing thoughts and attitudes. I wouldn't cross the street to visit him if I were in town. But I've realized that I have (had) this incredibly tight bond with him stemming from our childhood that totally transcends politics or whatever. He's the only one with whom I share certain memories; in a way, he validates my life. Too bad I didn't figure this out til he's gone. And I think he would have felt the same way if I had died first.
So this leads me to believe that the emotions are there, on some level, but the depression blunts or masks it. I don't know. This is actually too painful to think about too much right now. And now my daughter's cat went AWOL, and I'm mourning her (the cat) way more than I thought I would! Life sucks, and then you die....Marie
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