Psycho-Babble Social Thread 12459

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Re: Dependence on therapists Dinah/Galtin

Posted by Roo on October 13, 2001, at 9:32:42

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists Dinah, posted by galtin on October 13, 2001, at 7:02:46

Dinah--I can definitely relate to what you say about
feeling addicted to that safe place and seeing your
therapist as a soothing mother. I felt that way towards
my ex boyfriend, he is such a maternal, soothing presence--
he felt like the soothing mother I never had. And I, like
you had no ability to soothe and nuture myself, so I felt
dependent on him. We are still friends and I still feel
overly dependent on him for those qualities. I just
started cognitive/DBT therapy b/c I want to learn
concrete skills on how to self soothe.

Galtin-Is that why you stayed in therapy for the 4th
year? Because you were still afraid to trust? I think
about that with my current therapist who I'm about
to quit seeing. Sometimes I don't feel i've made any
progress so I'm going to go see someone else...but sometimes
a part of me thinks we've developed just enough trust
for me to come upon a big stumbling block--me trusting
her enough to become angry with her, and act out in
angry ways...and I can't deal with that thought, so I'm
going to leave (basically afraid to encounter the
anger in myself)....how did you feel after the 4th
year of therapy?

 

Re: Dependence on therapists Dinah » galtin

Posted by Marie1 on October 13, 2001, at 10:33:54

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists Dinah, posted by galtin on October 13, 2001, at 7:02:46

Galtin,
Wow, you sound the epitomy of successful therapy. (I mean this sincerely.) One thing I'm curious about though, how and when did the romantic attachment cease? I never thought those feelings that I had for my shrink were especially healthy, especially because I'm married. That part of therapy caused me alot of angst. Just because I've been "terminated" doesn't mean those feelings just stop. So how did you deal with that? Thanks.

Marie

> > Judy, in the thread above, mentioned that the theory of therapy is that you will get emotionally stronger and the dependence will sort of fade away. That is what my therapist says as well. Does anyone have any experience of that actually happening? Has anyone heard stories of that actually happening?
>
>
> Dinah-
>
> Yes, I have had that experience. I recently finished four years of therapy--twice a week for three years and once a week for the fourth year. During the second and part of the third year, I became what I felt was far too dependent on my therapist. I, a male, had chosen a female therapist(mom issues). And although she is 20 years my senior, I developed a strong maternal but mostly romantic dependence on her. There was a period of time during which I could think and dream of little else. Looking back, I see that this was a routine case of transference ( At the time, I thought I was unique!) and an essential part of the therapeutic process. During the beginning of the third year, I did struggle with trusting her and thought many times of stopping the therapy because I was "cured." Of course I was not cured, but afraid.
>
> On the trust, there was no magic formula. I never actually made a decision to trust; it just happened. I recognized it after the fact. Again, looking back, the move to trust was supported by the therapist's genuineness and integrity but was finally analogous to the Kierkegaardian "leap of faith." I could not make a decision--I just slipped into it. I was motivated by knowing that the therapy would not be "successful" if I kept the therapist at an emotional arms length.
>
> It is now six months since I finished. How did I know that it was time to stop? Two things, I think. First, I felt that I had gained freedom of choice. The black cloud of self-hate that had enveloped me for many years left. I could decide how to behave based not on this pathology but based instead on self-respect and ethical considerations. Second, after plunging into trusting my therapist I was became able to trust (in some measure anyway) other people. What I had previously been able to speak about with only the therapist, I could now discuss with a few friends. Thus, my therapist-dependence gradually waned.
>
> Post-therapy life is not idyllic or pain free, and I can still make stupid decisions. But I no longer feel cursed, no longer feel that I am the purpose for the whole of creation. I have a capacity to forgive,to look on others with a measure of charity, and to look at myself with a measure of clarity. I don't always do this, but I have the capacity. And since I no longer loath myself, I can learn, if I so choose, from my mistakes.
>
> Despite my occasional delusions of grandiosity, I am just a regular guy. I did not bring anything special to the therapy that made it work. So, I hope it works for you as well.
>
>
> galtin

 

Re: Dependence on therapists Dinah/Galtin Roo

Posted by galtin on October 13, 2001, at 11:44:00

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists Dinah/Galtin, posted by Roo on October 13, 2001, at 9:32:42

> Dinah--I can definitely relate to what you say about
> feeling addicted to that safe place and seeing your
> therapist as a soothing mother. I felt that way towards
> my ex boyfriend, he is such a maternal, soothing presence--
> he felt like the soothing mother I never had. And I, like
> you had no ability to soothe and nuture myself, so I felt
> dependent on him. We are still friends and I still feel
> overly dependent on him for those qualities. I just
> started cognitive/DBT therapy b/c I want to learn
> concrete skills on how to self soothe.
>
> Galtin-Is that why you stayed in therapy for the 4th
> year? Because you were still afraid to trust? I think
> about that with my current therapist who I'm about
> to quit seeing. Sometimes I don't feel i've made any
> progress so I'm going to go see someone else...but sometimes
> a part of me thinks we've developed just enough trust
> for me to come upon a big stumbling block--me trusting
> her enough to become angry with her, and act out in
> angry ways...and I can't deal with that thought, so I'm
> going to leave (basically afraid to encounter the
> anger in myself)....how did you feel after the 4th
> year of therapy?

Roo,


When I think back to four years of therapy, three of them at the clip of two sessions a week, I wonder what on earth we talked about. Sometimes it was the proverbial dysfunctional family, though mine was less dysfunctional than most. Much of the rest of the time I talked about the nitty gritty of day-to-day life.

I started therapy for several reasons. An almost lethal episode of depression had finally been brought to heel by a new medication. I finally accepted that depression would accompany me one way or another through the rest of my life. Once my depression is full-blown I can do nothing about it. But I hoped that therapy could give me strategies for preventing its onset. The main four themes that wove their way through my four years were anger (of which I was often unaware), lack of trust, out-of-control pessimism, and an analytical approach to life that stifled feelings as soon as they arose, and did this so quickly and automatically that I was usually not aware that the feelings were present.

At the end of the four years I knew that these defects were not a necessary part of my being but, instead, charcteristics I could identify and move against. When I felt this ability to identify and to act, I wound down with the therapy. Before therapy I felt in bondage to invisible but unassailable forces. At the end, I realized that by what I did and what I thought, I could turn toward these forces or away from them. I recognized that what I did shaped how I felt and thought.

I hope you find the right therapist for yourself. I asked for recommendations from people I knew whose judgment I trusted and I was fortunate.


galtin

 

Re: Dependence on therapists Dinah » galtin

Posted by Cass on October 13, 2001, at 20:09:23

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists Dinah, posted by galtin on October 13, 2001, at 7:02:46


>And since I no longer loath myself, I can >learn, if I so choose, from my mistakes.

Hi Galtin,
May I ask what the source of your self-loathing was? Was it depression alone, or were you a child abuse victim or was there some other source? If you are uncomfortable with the question, there's no pressure to answer. I'm interested, that's all.
Cass

 

Re: Dependence on therapists Dinah Cass

Posted by galtin on October 13, 2001, at 22:18:16

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists Dinah » galtin, posted by Cass on October 13, 2001, at 20:09:23

>
> >And since I no longer loath myself, I can >learn, if I so choose, from my mistakes.
>
> Hi Galtin,
> May I ask what the source of your self-loathing was? Was it depression alone, or were you a child abuse victim or was there some other source? If you are uncomfortable with the question, there's no pressure to answer. I'm interested, that's all.
> Cass


Cass,

Take one father whose expectations of me I could not fulfill, a mother who was an emotional cipher, and my naturally defiant temperament. Add a 13 year career in the ordained ministry marked by steadily progressive alcoholism. Add a liberal dose of personal hypocrisy. The public persona of a respectable and successful minister colliding with a private life morally and logistically out of control. Finally, subtract the quart of vodka a day, add a public booting from the ministry, shake in a sudden, searing shame, and there it was- rabid self hate.

This is the short answer to your question, near as I can figure it looking back eleven years. Alcohol triggered my first depressive episode. Everything else described above led to a pattern of chronically relapsing depression.

Above all, I generated my self-hate by my continually self-destructive behavior. I didn't reckon this until I stopped drinking, and then it was too late to prevent the self-hatred from bulldozing its way over my weakened defenses. I tried, by force of will, to drive the hatred right back out of my life. But, eventually I realized that it had been burrowed into my personality as far back into my childhood as I could remember. After trying everything I could come up with, and bereft of other options, I had to surrender before I got anywhere. After surrendering, I needed to change how I acted and thought, one little bit at a time. Ah, what a wonder it is to finally grow up. And I am still at it.

I hope this makes some sort of sense to you.


galtin

 

Re: Dependence on therapists Dinah Cass » galtin

Posted by Cass on October 14, 2001, at 0:06:39

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists Dinah Cass, posted by galtin on October 13, 2001, at 22:18:16

> Take one father whose expectations of me I could not fulfill, a mother who was an emotional cipher, and my naturally defiant temperament. Add a 13 year career in the ordained ministry marked by steadily progressive alcoholism. Add a liberal dose of personal hypocrisy. The public persona of a respectable and successful minister colliding with a private life morally and logistically out of control. Finally, subtract the quart of vodka a day, add a public booting from the ministry, shake in a sudden, searing shame, and there it was- rabid self hate.
>
That is a respectably honest answer. Your life has been tragic, but very interesting. I bet it's the honesty which has led to your success. Denial is the biggest perpetuator of mental illness, IMO. I'm so glad things are going better for you. I've experienced a lot of self-loathing myself which is a result of a pathologically rejecting and demeaning mother and a psychopathic father. They are both out of my life now, but the self-loathing is still present at times. It's such a long road to recovery. I feel that the majority of my adult life to this point has been spent recovering from childhood, although that trend is changing. People are insensitive when they say "Get over it" to child abuse victims. They would probably never say that to a holocaust victim.

 

Re: Dependence on therapists Dinah Cass

Posted by galtin on October 14, 2001, at 23:38:07

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists Dinah Cass » galtin, posted by Cass on October 14, 2001, at 0:06:39

> > Take one father whose expectations of me I could not fulfill, a mother who was an emotional cipher, and my naturally defiant temperament. Add a 13 year career in the ordained ministry marked by steadily progressive alcoholism. Add a liberal dose of personal hypocrisy. The public persona of a respectable and successful minister colliding with a private life morally and logistically out of control. Finally, subtract the quart of vodka a day, add a public booting from the ministry, shake in a sudden, searing shame, and there it was- rabid self hate.
> >
> That is a respectably honest answer. Your life has been tragic, but very interesting. I bet it's the honesty which has led to your success. Denial is the biggest perpetuator of mental illness, IMO. I'm so glad things are going better for you. I've experienced a lot of self-loathing myself which is a result of a pathologically rejecting and demeaning mother and a psychopathic father. They are both out of my life now, but the self-loathing is still present at times. It's such a long road to recovery. I feel that the majority of my adult life to this point has been spent recovering from childhood, although that trend is changing. People are insensitive when they say "Get over it" to child abuse victims. They would probably never say that to a holocaust victim.


Cass,

My parents made some mistakes but were well-intentioned, never cruel, and have in the last ten years been open to exploring (in therapy, no less!) how everything happened the way it did.

I can't imagine how I would have fared with the kind of parents you had. I know enough (book learning & friends) about the damage abusive parents do to also know the courage and determination it has taken you to forge your own independent identity. Actually, I don't know, but I can guess. I am glad to hear you say that the trend is moving beyond staying afloat and recovering. I assume, at least, that you mean this in a good sense.

Those who tell you "to get over it" are frightened. They are afraid of emotional suffering and get through life only by walling themselves off in an artificial world where nothing really bad happens. Too bad, because they miss out on so much of the important stuff. My mother-in-law is like this. Mention a tragedy, or a person in a awful predicament, and she will come up with a reasonable explanation or justification for it. That the world contains evil and hurtfulness transcending any explanation is an impossibility. Otherwise the pain of others might awaken the smoldering volcano of pain and anger within herself.


Be gentle with yourself,

galtin

 

Re: Dependence on therapists Dinah Cass » galtin

Posted by sar on October 14, 2001, at 23:57:29

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists Dinah Cass, posted by galtin on October 13, 2001, at 22:18:16

> >
> > >And since I no longer loath myself, I can >learn, if I so choose, from my mistakes.
> >
> > Hi Galtin,
> > May I ask what the source of your self-loathing was? Was it depression alone, or were you a child abuse victim or was there some other source? If you are uncomfortable with the question, there's no pressure to answer. I'm interested, that's all.
> > Cass
>
>
> Cass,
>
> Take one father whose expectations of me I could not fulfill, a mother who was an emotional cipher, and my naturally defiant temperament. Add a 13 year career in the ordained ministry marked by steadily progressive alcoholism. Add a liberal dose of personal hypocrisy. The public persona of a respectable and successful minister colliding with a private life morally and logistically out of control. Finally, subtract the quart of vodka a day, add a public booting from the ministry, shake in a sudden, searing shame, and there it was- rabid self hate.
>
> This is the short answer to your question, near as I can figure it looking back eleven years. Alcohol triggered my first depressive episode. Everything else described above led to a pattern of chronically relapsing depression.
>
> Above all, I generated my self-hate by my continually self-destructive behavior. I didn't reckon this until I stopped drinking, and then it was too late to prevent the self-hatred from bulldozing its way over my weakened defenses. I tried, by force of will, to drive the hatred right back out of my life. But, eventually I realized that it had been burrowed into my personality as far back into my childhood as I could remember. After trying everything I could come up with, and bereft of other options, I had to surrender before I got anywhere. After surrendering, I needed to change how I acted and thought, one little bit at a time. Ah, what a wonder it is to finally grow up. And I am still at it.
>
> I hope this makes some sort of sense to you.
>
>
> galtin

thank you for this post.

i can't put it into words at this moment, but it touched me alot.

best,
sar

 

Re: Dependence on therapists

Posted by gdog on October 15, 2001, at 17:19:39

In reply to Dependence on therapists, posted by Dinah on October 12, 2001, at 20:50:33

sorry for butting in, but i couldn't help it. i've been seeing a therapist for depression and eating disorders for almost a year, first time i ever trusted a therapist to get to the point of talking about anything of substance. three hours ago, she told me she is closing her practice (family emergency) and moving. she can see me once more for closure. i feel devestated, like an essential portion of my recovery has fallen through. she made me tell her i would call some of the other therapists she recommended, but at this point i just dont feel like i can do that. so i just feel like giving up on it all. my pdoc is totally unaccessible for anything other than refilling prescriptions, my gp who told me she would manage my meds changed her mind when she found out the extent of my. . .uhm. . .problems. so. i know i'm feelin a fair amount of self pity over this, but i'm really frightened that this is the straw that will make me totally give up. its just been so hard to continue on, trying to get better and live a livable life. and so hard to go to therapy and shrinks to begin with. i don't know what's wrong with me, but this has been makin me cry for the last 3 hours.


soooo. anybody have any good advice/experiences/etc. to share?
gdog.

 

Re: Dependence on therapists » gdog

Posted by Dinah on October 15, 2001, at 22:43:36

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists, posted by gdog on October 15, 2001, at 17:19:39

gdog,
I am so sorry to hear of your loss. I wish I did have some advice for you, or at least something useful to say. It's quite reasonable to cry over this. I cried for a day over losing a psychiatrist I couldn't stand. I guess the irony is that a time like this, when the idea of trusting another therapist seems unthinkable, is when you most need someone to talk to. So, I guess probably the best thing to do would be to call one of the therapists she recommended. Of course, if it had been my therapist that closed his practice, I would feel just the same way you do. I wish there was something more I could say.
Lots of heartfelt hugs,
Dinah

 

Re: Dependence on therapists » gdog

Posted by Dinah on October 15, 2001, at 23:24:21

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists, posted by gdog on October 15, 2001, at 17:19:39

gdog,
I am so sorry to hear of your loss. I wish I did have advice for you, or at least something useful to say. It's quite reasonable to cry over this. I cried for a day over losing a psychiatrist I didn't even like. I guess the irony is that a time like this, when the idea of trusting another therapist seems unthinkable, is when you most need someone to talk to. So, I guess probably the best thing to do would be to call one of the therapists she recommended. Of course, if it had been my therapist that had closed his practice, I would feel just the way you do. I wish there was something more I could say.
Lots of heartfelt hugs,
Dinah

 

Re: Dependence on therapists gdog

Posted by madeleine on October 16, 2001, at 0:53:13

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists, posted by gdog on October 15, 2001, at 17:19:39

gdog,

I am so sorry to hear that you are losing your therapist, and so suddenly, too. My heart goes out to you.

I have some personal experience with both depression and eating disorders, so I understand how hard it is to find someone to confide in. Not to mention how difficult it is to live from day to day with these conditions. I remember days when I could barely scrape up enough energy to get out of bed to go to therapy. I can tell that you have been putting your heart and soul into your recovery. Please don't give up, you will be able to find another therapist and things will get better. Remember how hard you have worked in the past and try to reconnect with your inner strength.

I'm encouraged by the fact that your therapist gave you several other therapists to call. This means you have options, which is a good thing. If you don't feel up to talking to them right away, perhaps just call and listen to their answering machine messages, just to dip your toe in the water.

As hard as it may seem at this point, the sooner you can make an appointment with someone the better--you are going through a very difficult time and you need someone to talk to and a place to go and cry for awhile, someplace where you are not alone.

Be kind to yourself, and please write and let us know how you are doing.

madeleine

 

Re: Dependence on therapists

Posted by galtin on October 16, 2001, at 5:19:31

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists, posted by gdog on October 15, 2001, at 17:19:39

> sorry for butting in, but i couldn't help it. i've been seeing a therapist for depression and eating disorders for almost a year, first time i ever trusted a therapist to get to the point of talking about anything of substance. three hours ago, she told me she is closing her practice (family emergency) and moving. she can see me once more for closure. i feel devestated, like an essential portion of my recovery has fallen through. she made me tell her i would call some of the other therapists she recommended, but at this point i just dont feel like i can do that. so i just feel like giving up on it all. my pdoc is totally unaccessible for anything other than refilling prescriptions, my gp who told me she would manage my meds changed her mind when she found out the extent of my. . .uhm. . .problems. so. i know i'm feelin a fair amount of self pity over this, but i'm really frightened that this is the straw that will make me totally give up. its just been so hard to continue on, trying to get better and live a livable life. and so hard to go to therapy and shrinks to begin with. i don't know what's wrong with me, but this has been makin me cry for the last 3 hours.
>
>
> soooo. anybody have any good advice/experiences/etc. to share?
> gdog.


gdog,


Yikes! I would be beside myself. But you can't give up. You have worked too hard. If you have trusted one therapist, you can eventually trust another.

Instead of getting a list of potentials from your departing therapist, you could ask her to recommend the person she thinks is best trained and temperamentally suited to help you. And since she is leaving you in the lurch, she should be willing to call the therapist to give her some background on the work the two of you have done together (and thereby confirm that this therapist is a good match for you).


If that is not possible, then go therapist shopping. Meet with and interview each person on the list. Most therapists will do this first "let's see if we can work together" session with no charge. That way you won't feel like you are just rolling the dice.

Good luck,


galtin

 

Re: Dependence on therapists

Posted by galtin on October 16, 2001, at 5:20:23

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists, posted by gdog on October 15, 2001, at 17:19:39

> sorry for butting in, but i couldn't help it. i've been seeing a therapist for depression and eating disorders for almost a year, first time i ever trusted a therapist to get to the point of talking about anything of substance. three hours ago, she told me she is closing her practice (family emergency) and moving. she can see me once more for closure. i feel devestated, like an essential portion of my recovery has fallen through. she made me tell her i would call some of the other therapists she recommended, but at this point i just dont feel like i can do that. so i just feel like giving up on it all. my pdoc is totally unaccessible for anything other than refilling prescriptions, my gp who told me she would manage my meds changed her mind when she found out the extent of my. . .uhm. . .problems. so. i know i'm feelin a fair amount of self pity over this, but i'm really frightened that this is the straw that will make me totally give up. its just been so hard to continue on, trying to get better and live a livable life. and so hard to go to therapy and shrinks to begin with. i don't know what's wrong with me, but this has been makin me cry for the last 3 hours.
>
>
> soooo. anybody have any good advice/experiences/etc. to share?
> gdog.


gdog,


Yikes! I would be beside myself. But you can't give up. You have worked too hard. If you have trusted one therapist, you can eventually trust another.

Instead of getting a list of potentials from your departing therapist, you could ask her to recommend the person she thinks is best trained and temperamentally suited to help you. And since she is leaving you in the lurch, she should be willing to call the therapist to give her some background on the work the two of you have done together (and thereby confirm that this therapist is a good match for you).


If that is not possible, then go therapist shopping. Meet with and interview each person on the list. Most therapists will do this first "let's see if we can work together" session with no charge. That way you won't feel like you are just rolling the dice.

Good luck,


galtin

 

Re: Dependence on therapists

Posted by gdog on October 19, 2001, at 12:02:12

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists, posted by galtin on October 16, 2001, at 5:20:23

thanks, everyone, for your support and suggestions. i'm feeling better now, and its great to know that its not TOO weird to have this be such a big deal. i have called a couple of the therapists, and will get in to see someone asap. you guys are great!
gdog

 

Re: Dependence on therapists » gdog

Posted by Dinah on October 19, 2001, at 15:37:53

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists, posted by gdog on October 19, 2001, at 12:02:12

gdog,
I'm glad you are feeling better. I admire you for following through on contacting the other therapists. In spite of my reasoned advice to you, I'm not at all sure I would have been brave enough to follow through.
Did you take advantage of the last session with your previous therapist, or did I misunderstand? Perhaps the session where she informed you of the news was the last session.

 

Re: Dependence on therapists

Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2001, at 9:21:19

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists » gdog, posted by Dinah on October 19, 2001, at 15:37:53

I have been attempting to deal with my dependence myself and, while my intentions were good, I'm not at all sure I have been going about it the right way. I have been searching the archives here and also the internet for stories of bad therapists or therapists who terminated their clients abruptly.
I really do think it's unwise to be too dependent on a paid professional, and that it is a good idea to root out that dependence and dispose of it at once. On the other hand, my efforts are working to some extent - I do feel less safe with him, yet I am feeling pretty rotten in general. The depression is definitely getting worse. I think I have a nasty habit of trying to deal with emotional issues in a too pragmatic way.
Just venting.

 

Re: Dependence on therapists » Dinah

Posted by Mair on October 21, 2001, at 16:42:11

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2001, at 9:21:19

Dinah - I'm picking up here a little late. Why do you feel less safe with him? Is it something he did, or is it that you're more guarded because you're concerned about your dependency?

Mair

 

Re: Dependence on therapists » Mair

Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2001, at 18:05:46

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists » Dinah, posted by Mair on October 21, 2001, at 16:42:11

> Dinah - I'm picking up here a little late. Why do you feel less safe with him? Is it something he did, or is it that you're more guarded because you're concerned about your dependency?
>
> Mair

I guess I was a bit unclear. He hasn't done anything wrong. I just recently realized the extent of my dependence on him and it scared me. I've talked to him about it and he thinks I will outgrow it as I get stronger and it was a common thing in therapy and not to worry about it.
This may not make any sense, but it seems as if my emotional self and my rational self are not very well connected. My rational self is attempting to undermine my dependence on my therapist by undermining the sense of safety it is based on. My emotional self seems to need the sense of safety and undermining it is making me more depressed. So I am second-guessing the wisdom of trying to prematurely end the dependence. How rational is my rational self being? Now I know I'm not making any sense.
Sigh.

 

Re: Dependence on therapists

Posted by Cecilia on October 22, 2001, at 4:05:43

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists » Mair, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2001, at 18:05:46

> > Dinah - I'm picking up here a little late. Why do you feel less safe with him? Is it something he did, or is it that you're more guarded because you're concerned about your dependency?
> >
> > Mair
>
> I guess I was a bit unclear. He hasn't done anything wrong. I just recently realized the extent of my dependence on him and it scared me. I've talked to him about it and he thinks I will outgrow it as I get stronger and it was a common thing in therapy and not to worry about it.
> This may not make any sense, but it seems as if my emotional self and my rational self are not very well connected. My rational self is attempting to undermine my dependence on my therapist by undermining the sense of safety it is based on. My emotional self seems to need the sense of safety and undermining it is making me more depressed. So I am second-guessing the wisdom of trying to prematurely end the dependence. How rational is my rational self being? Now I know I'm not making any sense.
> Sigh.

It`s a no-win situation. I tried to avoid getting too dependent on my therapist out of fear of being abandoned. Eventually, she abandoned me because of my inability to become dependent.

 

Re: Dependence on therapists » Cecilia

Posted by Dinah on October 22, 2001, at 5:23:27

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists, posted by Cecilia on October 22, 2001, at 4:05:43

> It`s a no-win situation. I tried to avoid getting too dependent on my therapist out of fear of being abandoned. Eventually, she abandoned me because of my inability to become dependent.

Cecilia,
You are right. I have a tendency to try to face the lesser pain now to avoid the feared catastrophic pain later. Unfortunately, I also have the tendency to decide the pain now is too much and that I'll just hope the feared pain never happens. And in true obsessive fashion, I can't decide between the two ideas, so I go back and forth causing maximum fear and pain from both sides. I think too much, and not well enough.
Dinah

 

**chuckle**...

Posted by Dinah on October 22, 2001, at 5:57:54

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists » Cecilia, posted by Dinah on October 22, 2001, at 5:23:27

I just realized that as I get trapped deeper into myself in my obsessive loop, my actual therapist has become irrelevant.
I guess my mind is more goal oriented than I think since the obsessions serve to further distance me from my therapist.
And I guess therapy must be working at least somewhat if I can recognize this.

Dinah

 

Re: **chuckle**... » Dinah

Posted by mair on October 22, 2001, at 7:20:27

In reply to **chuckle**..., posted by Dinah on October 22, 2001, at 5:57:54

> Dinah - I think your mind operates a bit like mine. Sometimes I'll start thinking about something that will make me think about something else and so on. Eventually I get back to where I started only worse because by then I can't remember how I got there and the landscape looks just different enough to confuse me. I don't acknowledge my dependency on my therapist although it may well be there. What does happen is that I seem to do a nose dive whenever I think about terminating. Sometimes I think about terminating because I just can't see how I can explain to her what's going on in my head or I don't want to explain it to her. Other times I think about terminating because I feel a little better and seem to lose my therapeutic focus and it just doesn't seem as necessary or worthwhile. Of course after I start getting depressed again I attribute it to a fear of being without that anchor and it seems very much like something I "precipitated" which reinforces for me an idea that depression is something I can control but choose to bring on myself and to perpetuate. Sometimes I go from there to being very self-critical that I'm even thinking about this crap - that I'm more concerned with the process of therapy than the substance of what can actually be learned. Regardless of where I started, in no time I'm in this cycle where in my mind there's no place to get off where I look anything other than pretty much a mess. If I was thinking about terminating therapy in the beginning of the cycle, I've certainly given that up by the time my next appointment rolls around.

Mair

 

Re: Dependence on therapists

Posted by gdog on October 22, 2001, at 15:32:18

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists » gdog, posted by Dinah on October 19, 2001, at 15:37:53

dinah,
thanks for the words of encouragement. when i got into this therapy stuff i never imagined it would be this complex! i do have one more appointment with my old therapist next week (for "closure") as well as an appt. with one of the folks my therapist referenced. i go through a lot of anguish around therapy too. the first time i did it, i spent the whole 3 months trying to convince both my therapist and i that i didn't need therapy! needless to say, we never got very far.

anyway, i do know some people who are completely clear when they are "done" with therapy. maybe some of us never reach that level of clarity - but it sounds like you have a lot of clarity on the process. and sometimes i think for me the process is what its really about.
gdog.

> gdog,
> I'm glad you are feeling better. I admire you for following through on contacting the other therapists. In spite of my reasoned advice to you, I'm not at all sure I would have been brave enough to follow through.
> Did you take advantage of the last session with your previous therapist, or did I misunderstand? Perhaps the session where she informed you of the news was the last session.

 

Re: Dependence on therapists » gdog

Posted by Dinah on October 22, 2001, at 17:58:14

In reply to Re: Dependence on therapists, posted by gdog on October 22, 2001, at 15:32:18

You are welcome gdog. I wish I did have some clarity on the process. I find it all terribly confusing. It's good to know I'm not the only one who feels that way.
Best wishes with the new therapist.
Dinah


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