![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on January 13, 2002, at 13:03:50
All the recent events have me thinking. Maybe it's just me, but I like rules. I mean there are rules I don't like and I like to complain about those rules, but in general I like having rules. I like knowing what is allowable and what isn't, or even what is expected and what isn't. When the rules are clear cut and consistently enforced, I get a sense of safety. Even as a teenager, I might have argues the merits of certain rules with my parents, but I never really tested them.
On the other hand, when the rules are "understood" rather than spelled out, or when the enforcement of the rules depends on the circumstances, I always have a really hard time figuring out what's expected of me and that makes me anxious.
I'm curious as to how other people feel about rules. Do you see rules as constraining or, conversely, do you see them as freeing you to do as you wish within safe and well defined boundaries?
Posted by sid on January 13, 2002, at 16:46:48
In reply to Rules, posted by Dinah on January 13, 2002, at 13:03:50
> I'm curious as to how other people feel about rules. Do you see rules as constraining or, conversely, do you see them as freeing you to do as you wish within safe and well defined boundaries?
Both. There's a tradeoff in everything, finding the optimal equilibrium is the key. Too few rules may be scary and too many suffocating; unfortunately our preferences differ from one individual to the next, so it's hard to find the optimal balance as a society. Basic economics.
Posted by paxvox on January 13, 2002, at 17:44:52
In reply to Rules, posted by Dinah on January 13, 2002, at 13:03:50
Hmmmm..... some sort of authority resentment going on here Dinah?
Of course there has to be rules, or OCD people like me would not know how to act, and we clearly can't have that sort of stuff going on, now can we?
PAX
Posted by IsoM on January 14, 2002, at 3:36:00
In reply to Rules, posted by Dinah on January 13, 2002, at 13:03:50
Dinah, I feel just like you do. I hate vague rules meant to be 'understood' but no one really seems to agree on what they are. I like having clear cut rules that are printed out to refer back.
*Proper* rules & principles make life easier. It's the 'no solid rules' that bother me. No matter what you do & how good your intentions are, this sort of situation leaves a person open to being accused of not doing what's expected or right.
> All the recent events have me thinking. Maybe it's just me, but I like rules. I mean there are rules I don't like and I like to complain about those rules, but in general I like having rules. I like knowing what is allowable and what isn't, or even what is expected and what isn't. When the rules are clear cut and consistently enforced, I get a sense of safety. Even as a teenager, I might have argues the merits of certain rules with my parents, but I never really tested them.
> On the other hand, when the rules are "understood" rather than spelled out, or when the enforcement of the rules depends on the circumstances, I always have a really hard time figuring out what's expected of me and that makes me anxious.
> I'm curious as to how other people feel about rules. Do you see rules as constraining or, conversely, do you see them as freeing you to do as you wish within safe and well defined boundaries?
Posted by Krazy Kat on January 14, 2002, at 7:18:27
In reply to Rules, posted by Dinah on January 13, 2002, at 13:03:50
Dinah:
Absolutely!! I also prefer to have my options limited. Otherwise, I get overwhelmed.
Now this wouldn't work in anything but a "free" society - otherwise I would rebel.
But I do definitely see them as freeing for me - I have been trying to add more into my life.
- KK
Posted by jane d on January 16, 2002, at 19:45:25
In reply to Re: Rules » Dinah, posted by IsoM on January 14, 2002, at 3:36:00
> Dinah, I feel just like you do. I hate vague rules meant to be 'understood' but no one really seems to agree on what they are. I like having clear cut rules that are printed out to refer back.
>
> *Proper* rules & principles make life easier. It's the 'no solid rules' that bother me. No matter what you do & how good your intentions are, this sort of situation leaves a person open to being accused of not doing what's expected or right.Interesting. Until I read this thread I hadn't realized that this too varied with how depressed I was. I don't know that I ever like rules but when I'm depressed I tend to assume that they are inflexible - at least as applies to me. I think it's because I'm sure I'm so worthless that no one would ever cut me any slack or do anything for me unless compelled. So I see rules as being a line of protection for me and anyone else living on the world's bad side. When I'm not depressed I tend to understand the informal rules better and also to assume that if you give people a little flexibility they will generally bend the rules in ways that benefit everyone.
-Jane
Posted by Gracie2 on January 21, 2002, at 3:45:07
In reply to Rules, posted by Dinah on January 13, 2002, at 13:03:50
As in all things, moderation is the key. A lack of rules results in anarchy. Too many rules result in a military state. I should know, because I was in the military for a long time.
Trouble comes from ignorance and a lack of knowledge for why these rules are applied.
As a small example, when I was a young soldier, I was constantly disciplined and punished for wearing gold or silver barrettes to hold up my long hair, because I thought it was a senseless rule. It wasn't until later when I realized that, in a combat situation, the shiny barrettes in my hair would make an excellent target for a sniper, and my vanity could have gotten my head blown off.Another example was my hardcore resentment against welfare, the money from our taxes that go to pay for Section-8 housing and food stamps.
Admittedly there still needs to be a great deal of reform in this area, as I stand in line at the grocery store with my hamburger and generic macaroni and coupons while the person in front of me buys sirloin steak and lobster with their food stamps, often wearing Tommy Hilfinger jeans and gold jewelry and cellular phones that I can't afford myself.
Still, a welfare state is necessary. I have the odd hobby of collecting books on Jack the Ripper,
who lived in the East End of Victorian London at a
time where there was little socialized welfare to speak of. The lives of these people were so appalling that it defies imagination. It was necessary for many destitute women to prostitute themselves for the price of a night's sleep in a shabby, vermin-infested bed. People died in droves from starvation and exposure, or were beaten senseless from attempting to steal a little bread or piece of soap. Anyone who has read the book or watched the movie "Angela's Ashes" cannot help being moved by the abject poverty and suffering experienced by the poor, especially the children.So, yes, rules are necessary. It's become fashionable in my city -and doubtless others- to sail though stopsigns, and this has made driving a dangerous game of bumper-cars. It's frightening and depressing when people don't follow the rules,
and sometimes you wonder if anyone really does care about anyone else. All you can do is rise above those people and be a better person.Last week, my 20-year-old son was able to take off work early and was happy to be able to meet his friends early. While he was driving home on the highway, he passed a woman on the side of the road with a flat tire. He turned around and pulled up behind her, and she jumped in her car and locked the door. He knocked on the window and asked her if she had a spare tire, but she was frightened and wouldn't talk to him. Then he asked her to pull the hood release, which she did.
He changed her tire while she was still locked in the car, and then he knocked on the window again to tell her that she should be able to make it home, but not to drive too fast on the spare. Then he got back in his own car and was ready to drive away when she jumped out of her own car and ran up to his window with a $20 bill. He wouldn't take it from her.The point of that story was - besides the fact that I have a great kid - is that there are rules and reasons for following them, and this woman did all the right things in protecting herself. On the other hand, you must use your own judgement in order to prevent these rules from forcing you to act inhumane and robotic. If this woman had driven away without so much as a thank-you, after it had become obvious to her that a stranger had rendered a great kindness to her, this would have been a disservice to not only herself and my son, but to many other people that
he might have helped in the future. As it turned out, I know she was greatful and my son felt good
about himself.I told him that if they were keeping points in heaven, he just got a big gold star.
-Meandering Gracie
Posted by Dinah on January 21, 2002, at 10:57:10
In reply to Re: Rules, posted by Gracie2 on January 21, 2002, at 3:45:07
Gracie, you do have a great son!
I think you all are correct in that the question in a society or government is a balance in the number of rules.
But on a more personal level, in everyday life, I like rules. Not necessarily state imposed ones, but rules of ethics, social conduct, etc. I have trouble with figuring out the social conduct rules and wish they were more well defined. That's why I like this board. The rules are very clear and easy to understand. In the real world, I seem to have my own idiosyncratic views of polite behavior which do not agree to societal norms and therefore, I guess, my attempts to be polite are actually quite rude.
And I prefer my ethical rules to be numerous and well defined. I don't want to impose them on others, just to understand what composes right conduct for myself. I can't tell you how much trouble that viewpoint brings in Sunday School. I am constantly defending the purpose and value of the "Law" to my Protestant classmembers. One of my personal "rules" is that I have to defend opinions and people against unfair criticism whenever necessary, and when a group holds a single viewpoint I have an overwhelming need to present the opposing view. That's true even when I don't hold the opposing view and it leads me to be seen as contrary. Sometimes I wish I could decide that things aren't my responsibility. Oh well, I guess you can tell I had a difficult Sunday. I always feel so alone when I'm with people.
Posted by jane d on January 21, 2002, at 23:04:39
In reply to Re: Rules, posted by Gracie2 on January 21, 2002, at 3:45:07
You do have a great kid! Not just for stopping, but for understanding that the woman snubbed him out of fear and staying and helping anyway. I think many people would have shrugged and driven away at that point.
Jane
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.