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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by automatedlady on June 3, 2002, at 18:30:51
Hi
It's late, I'm wide awake, so I thought I'd ask if anyone else is experiencing/has experienced what I am at the moment..Up until the age of 18 I was anxious and very unhappy at times, but I was basically contented with who I was and the life I was living. I had friends, hobbies, hope for the future, I thought I was okay as a person (a lot of the time).
Then, at 18 (shortly after I went to uni) I became seriously depressed. I stopped seeing the friends I had (I became convinced I wasn't worth knowing and was too scared of them rejecting me), I didn't know how to make any more. I stopped working, hardly left my room, spent most of my time crying, self-harming, bingeing on food and sleeping. This went on (with a few drug-fuelled attempts at being my "old self" again) until I was 20, at which point I left uni, totally stopped drinking/taking drugs and tried to get help. I thought that things would get better because I was willing to change.Four years later, things have NOT got better. I have never stopped feeling like i am not worth knowing. I have never regained my ability to work or socialise, I have never got back my hobbies. Basically, I have felt like my life is over since I was 20.
And I can't stop dwelling on what I used to have and comparing it to what I have now. I feel that I am ugly now, old, fat and worthless now, and that I will never have the kind of life I had before again. I feel like I have wasted the past four years of my life and I am terrified I will never remember how to be happy. You Americans may think this is a bit sad, but it's a big party night here in Britain and I spent the night in watching TV because I was frightened that if I went out (I am living in my home town at the moment) I might bump into someone I haven't seen since I was 18 and they'd look at me and think how old and fat I look now...
It all sounds totally trivial, but I can't stop the thoughts (and the feelings that come with them). I know that if I was happier with my present I wouldn't obsess about the past so much. And if I didn't obsess about the past so much I'd actually be ABLE to make something of my present. This kind of thinking is less of a problem for me when I'm on SSRIs, but on SSRIs I just become totally unmotivated and don't even care that my life is empty (my doctor won't put me on anything else because he doesn't think my problems warrant that).
So anyway. It is a relief to write this down here. I think because I haven't had any obviously self-destructive habits in the past few years (don't take drugs or self harm anymore and to an outsider I probably just look like I'm a bit of a loner and don't really care enough about things to turn up to them) people (like my family/doctor) don't think there's anything wrong with me. I feel like there's only so long you can keep crying to people about the same things so I don't do it any more. I kind of limp along, basically. I feel about 50% alive. I sometimes fantasise about returning to self harm or drugs, or attempting suicide, because that way at least something might change, I might get help. But I won't (at the moment) risk losing the things I do have that just about keep me going.
There will probably be people who read this (if they get this far...) who think at least I'm not in a major depression, and I agree, I'm lucky that I'm not far worse than I am. Doesn't really help though...
Anyone want to reply, would be really grateful...
AL
Posted by IsoM on June 3, 2002, at 18:54:32
In reply to Obsessive thoughts - wasting my life, posted by automatedlady on June 3, 2002, at 18:30:51
This isn't the forum for meds but would your doctor consider letting you try a SNRI instead of SSRIs? An old tried & true one that's an TCA is desipramine. It works differently than other TCAs, & in Britain, with its strange views of psychotropic meds, your doctor would probably be more willing to try an older, cheaper med. It's not supposed to have the effect of flattening your emotions like SSRIs do.
Check out Scott's page he made at http://sl.schofield3.home.att.net/medicine/psychiatric_drugs_chart.html for some info on the properties of desipramine.
Right now, I can offer only sympathy for how you feel. The more others seem to be having fun around us, the worse we feel, can't we? But feeling old at what, 24 or 25? Sheez, I'm 52 & while I've aged VERY well, heck, I'm starting to feel my age. I hate seeing this older person looking back at me in the mirror. To me, you probably look young & beautiful!
Posted by automatedlady on June 3, 2002, at 19:05:22
In reply to Re: Obsessive thoughts - wasting my life » automatedlady, posted by IsoM on June 3, 2002, at 18:54:32
What's an SNRI? Is that a tricyclic or something I have never heard of at all? I will tentatively suggest it to my doctor, but Uk doctors seem to REALLY hate it when their patients act like they know ANYTHING... Emigrating!
Thank you for your post, though. That was very quick!
AL
Posted by IsoM on June 3, 2002, at 19:27:43
In reply to Re: Obsessive thoughts - wasting my life » IsoM, posted by automatedlady on June 3, 2002, at 19:05:22
SSRI stands for 'selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor'.
SNRI stands for 'selective norepinephrine (or British, noradrenaline) re-uptake inhibitor.They're both types of anti-depressants but one works more on serotonin while the other affects norepinephrine.
Some common SSRIs are Prozac, Paxil, Luvox, etc. Effexor & desopramine are more SNRIs, but with a small effect on serotonin too. If you go to PB & ask others who had better results with an SNRI than a SSRI, & whether the SSRI caused blunting or apathy, you'll probably find more answers than I can give you. Try including "SNRI helps apathy?" in the subject line to garner interest & answers.
Posted by automatedlady on June 3, 2002, at 19:34:35
In reply to Re: Obsessive thoughts - wasting my life » automatedlady, posted by IsoM on June 3, 2002, at 19:27:43
Posted by omega man on June 6, 2002, at 1:24:49
In reply to Obsessive thoughts - wasting my life, posted by automatedlady on June 3, 2002, at 18:30:51
I know what you have to go through with UK docs...luckily my GP prescribes me anything I want to try....he seems to understand the WWW.
Its ridiculous somebody ought to evaulate UK psychiatry...you don't get proper help unless youre killing yourself properly..by which time its too late...or you have BP or schizophrenia..
I can see a tone in the posts here which echos mine..how to deal with being here and having been trough long term de-railment at a young age...and then getting well thanks to meds..
I'm North of the Border..where people have a tendency to shun you when weak..or should I say have a bloody good laugh..
Basically in scotland when you get depressed you were never expected to get well again...you basically have the become a "bum" route opened for you and everyone says "there he goes, he's totally f*cked" ..so you get to keep bad company..
I found light and many of here have..and were still standing ...slightly burned out...thinking "what now" I did'nt think I'd be fit enough to consider living again...
I can only say thanks to the USA for all the great meds and research...and a big thumbs down to my environment for not realizing how short sighted it is about so many facets of life.
Posted by automatedlady on June 8, 2002, at 17:13:11
In reply to Re: Obsessive thoughts - wasting my life » automatedlady, posted by omega man on June 6, 2002, at 1:24:49
Posted by omega man on June 9, 2002, at 19:13:42
In reply to Who is yr GP? I might move house! ;-) (nm) » omega man, posted by automatedlady on June 8, 2002, at 17:13:11
don't know if yer being serious...however hes a great GP ..as long as youre honest...I would'nt post his name here..but I would drop some hints by mail...
Posted by automatedlady on June 13, 2002, at 15:36:24
In reply to Re: Who is yr GP? I might move house! ;-) » automatedlady, posted by omega man on June 9, 2002, at 19:13:42
I wish I COULD! Sadly I've just got a job at the other end of Britain.. but I may well reach a point where I'll do ANYTHING, and at that point I will be contacting you... thinking of just going back on Prozac at the moment. Don't remember apathy being as bad as on Celexa/Efexor. Will have to give it a go because I am currently so negative and angry I'm making all my family and remaining friends hate me.. sick of being disabled by this illness, looks like I am going to be, one way or another, whatever I do. And on that happy note... Al xx
Posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 0:33:48
In reply to Obsessive thoughts - wasting my life, posted by automatedlady on June 3, 2002, at 18:30:51
From what I can make out..from whats written..you were already pre-disposed to mild depression ..which is not clear why..and the whole growing up process has gone wrong...most of the pressure from what you say..you put on yourself...also these ideas of what you expect of yourself tend to be what families, communities etc do to each other...and when you reach some point of wisdom..you can see through most of it...not as crap are whatever..but knowledge and understanding of yourself and whats outside, what preceded it all, and what the hope is for the future.
Some of us are more "wired" up for seeing the future or past than others..you seem to look to the previous, and you feel like its a losing game ? if you realise the negativity you posess are you clear whether you know whats chemical and whats life or self pressure ?
"hell is your life gone wrong", Robin Williams
Whatever the case if you can fix the biological problems, it won't really help without experiencing things differently..
It may seem a strange way to look at things, but I find it helfull (in fact a turning point for me) when I realized my life in wider process than what you describe...well my mother really (a Pdoc) showing me some books she had to read about depression studies in primates (monkeys)
Apparently the result of things going wrong to a creature results in crystallization of the hierarchy..i.e. someone learns their place (don't think i'm referring to you here !!) these cause and effect chains happen in most mammal species..and I don't know why, but knowing that really had a profound effect..
After enough of this I just say "we came from apes, were here..he he he bloody fascinating that is....", get the idea ?
if my process can be put in perspective thats religous in scope : science ...rather than be defined by a life thats not what I wanted, then it seems like my secret to escape from hell, was to create a process unique to me but similiar in scope to what helped me laugh at my own problems.
The pressure you describe..we do it to ourselves and we do it to each other..you seem to be doing plenty to yourself..and those near you..and aware of it.....it would seem obious you need a break..from anything or anyone thats could be re-inforcing that..but i'm sure you already know that.
Drugs can be pivotal.. ...but I would'nt write all this if I did'nt think a good percentage of your problems are one of figuring how you need to live for how you need to feel.....and is'nt that just what youre doing by visiting PB ?
Posted by automatedlady on June 16, 2002, at 7:02:40
In reply to Re: Obsessive thoughts - wasting my life » automatedlady, posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 0:33:48
Thank you for taking the time to do a big reply! You are totally right about most of the pressure on me being pressure I put on myself, but I think that's a lot to do with zero self-esteem. I don't think I'm okay just as I am, I have to be super thin, gorgeous, outgoing, successful, popular to be just good enough.. Which basically goes back to experiences at school (not only is this country's health service sh*t, but SO IS THE EDUCATION SYSTEM!!! ;-) ) But seriously, I'm not sitting here blaming everyone except myself. I am, as I have been told many times, my own worst enemy. I think that it IS about changing the way I see the world, but until I get my brain chemicals into a certain balance I haven't a chance of doing that..
I had this big realisation yesterday that when I'm really unhappy it's always exactly the same as the time before, but happiness is always different. So if I do ever find happiness again, it's not going to be like last time I was happy, it's going to be different, and I have to look for it in whatever form it comes. Don't know if that made sense.. anyway.
By the way, can you explain a bit more about that "crystallisation of the hierarchy" thing...?
AL
Posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 18:19:05
In reply to Re: Obsessive thoughts - wasting my life » omega man, posted by automatedlady on June 16, 2002, at 7:02:40
makes absolute sense..if you did'nt experience happiness differently each time it happened you would be in a deep psychosis..
>By the way, can you explain a bit more about that "crystallisation of the hierarchy" thing...?
Its just a point about life processes in groups..whether human or whatever..the growing up time/age you seem to indicate is when it happens that the sexual hormones (i've no evidence of this) taper off and the result if the loss of fluidity...
whatever even if i'm wrong about the biology the observations made in group behaviors are clear..the growing up period is usually the end of the support and giving and the time when your place and value become pretty evident..hopefuly you get to grips with it and find some way to be happy within it or see a way that you can...
Depression in primate studies showed that when younger adult monkeys made moves, challenges according to their instincts and depending on the outcome ..lets say got beaten (whether fitness or creative luck) and are observed to not make further moves..and for the more experienced monkeys who did the beating down..they don't need to keep repeating that process..
Like a natrual order..but this is where it gets fascinating to me...drugs..hidden strategies..method acting..are all things humans can do and so it gets much more complex...but the natural order does seem very similiar say trying to work your way through a corporate environment..or be seen as the most desriable female...
One of the key things here is the defining of goals...some of us get more focussed than others ...you seem very focussed..so when you lose the fall is harder than for those of us with a wider vague manner...but a great thing to have within you is the ability to have a more moment to moment approach at a deeper level...which is something you find in religous practise from the east..
What i'm trying to say is that you have to say to yourself..are these pressures you put on yourself really worth it ..where did they come from....will you really be happy..even if you are..is the losing risk worth it...I don't know your life..so I can't say an "opinion" as to whether you exist in a place thats sending you signals that exist purely for no deeper purpose than basic needs or distraction, but if they exist as coping mechanisms they may be redundant for the "you" that is now.
On a deep level its all the same ..everywhere at all levels opposites exist within this galaxy...they get blurred at sub-atomic levels...but i'm going of track...whats really vital is to get rid of the Dross thats coming at you without throwing the baby out or submitting yourself to the will of some individual or closed group who says they have the answer...
is'nt this a question of free will ? and thats why I write because if your brain state is unstable or not up to it..youre in a vulnerable position.... I know too well the nonsense that exists within certain classes and groups and government structures in britain....and how it just creates problems..social dead ends and goals that really should feel optional and not the pressure you describe.
I found this place is the best on the web for getting a real reality check.
Posted by automatedlady on June 24, 2002, at 7:51:59
In reply to Re: Obsessive thoughts - wasting my life VLReply » automatedlady, posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 18:19:05
Hiya
Don't have long cos I'm in an internet cafe.. thanks for taking the time, although I'm a bit confused... starting a new job on Monday and very very worried about the whole thing.. hate this whole meeting new people/making friends thing, especially since this is my first proper job. My problem is that I always assume people won't like me and then don't give them a chance to ('own worst enemy' as many people have told me). I do know what you mean about the necessity of a different attitude to life, and I have tried to have that kind of attitude in the past, with some success. I just think I really do need to be on ADs to be able to achieve that kind of attitude, because when I'm just my normal depressed self it's like my brain is attacking me all the time - constant negative thoughts about how useless/ugly/past it I am that are not controllable. So, going to start Lofepramine, when I get up the courage (scared of side effects/weight gain). Anyway, money running out...
AL x
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