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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phyl on January 6, 2003, at 10:28:04
From when I was very young, I would find myself making up stories in my head when I was alone, mostly when it was bedtime. Usually, I'd be a great ballerina, or some great artist and I would revel in the "applause" I was usually a heroine of some sort, saving someone from some major catastrophe about to happen. If I couldn't continue the "story" for some reason, I would pick it up again later. I always have something going on in my brain. When I am trying to sleep now, I go over dumb things; I make up conversations with people, or go over conversations I have had in the past. I still fabricate stories just for my own private satisfaction.
I just wonder if some of you do and have done the same thing, and what you call this? I have difficulty sleeping and I asked my husband if he ever "thought conversations" and he couldn't understand it at all. He said he just gets into bed, gets into a comfortable position, and goes off to sleep. I am unable to do this; I am unable to stop "creating" stories, putting myself in imagined situations,etc., creating dialogue.
When I am up, I don't do this at all and am not a daydreamer. It's just at bedtime or when I am alone. Is this something many people do, but we just don't know it?
Thanks for your input.
Posted by Noa on January 6, 2003, at 11:36:21
In reply to What is a busy mind?, posted by Phyl on January 6, 2003, at 10:28:04
I used to do this a lot too, during my childhood and adolescence. I can't remember when it faded away. I think it just started to fade at a certain age, and maybe when my depression started to get serious in my early twenties, and maybe just with age. I am pretty sure it started fading well before I ever took psychiatric meds, but I also have a suspicion that even if I wanted to do it now, I couldn't really. My meds do kind of squash the ability to fantasize, I think.
I think that when I was younger, I needed those "dreams" because I didn't want to be just me the way I was. I remember making up stories in my head with variations on the following themes: I was an identical twin; I was the child of some heroic or exotic person; I had escaped courageously with a sibling (sometimes the twin) from some awful foreign country of origin (which made me usually an orphan, btw),and having an exotic and heroic mystique about me because of it, and being fluent in lots of exotic languages; being adopted (I am not really) and going on an adventurous quest (possibly sneaking into that horrible foreign country!)to find my family of origin, only to discover that they were not just ordinary people, but something really really special for whatever reason, or serendipitously discovering that someone I know in my life is my long-lost sibling, etc.; being some kind of secret agent, fluent in many languages and secretly going on important missions that would save people or prevent catastrophe; then there were the more romantic themes of being stuck in an elevator with a famous movie star who falls in love with me; or romantic themes involving real crushes, etc. Often, I looked different in these stories, from being thinner and being beautiful, to having an exotic look--different skin color, hair, etc.
There were times in my adoloescence when my ability to carry on stories in my head was so good, that I did so during boring college classes. But mostly, like you said, they were before going to sleep.
BTW--I think I remember reading in "The Drama of the Gifted Child" about people fantasizing about being the child of some powerful or important person.
Posted by TheProf on January 6, 2003, at 12:29:12
In reply to Re: What is a busy mind?, posted by Noa on January 6, 2003, at 11:36:21
Addressing the question, "What is a busy mind?" I don't know what causes it, but there is definitely such a thing because I have one and probably always have. I usually don't notice it so much during the day because I have things to do that make it natural that my mind is busy. But, when I am resting I will find myself pondering some philosophical question or a scientific problem or some social or political issue of the day. My wife will sometimes ask what I'm thinking about and I will just say, "Nothing." She will say she knows that isn't true because I'm always thinking and she's right.
It isn't always a good thing.
Posted by NikkiT2 on January 6, 2003, at 13:01:35
In reply to What is a busy mind?, posted by Phyl on January 6, 2003, at 10:28:04
I do this all the time... I have problems falling asleep, and so make stories up in my head, and conversations with people - sayingt he htings I'd like to say, or to fantasy dinner party type people.. (you know, the 6 people who have ever lived you'd most like to have over for a dinner party!). I often write emails in my head, or even just carry on a tv show after its finished. SOmetimes I get so acrried away with these I sit up to turn the TV off, forgetting its only in my head!!
I just call them my ponderences!!! I like to ponder :o)
Keep it up, fantasy can be a great escape!
Nikki x
Posted by rayww on January 6, 2003, at 13:12:12
In reply to What is a busy mind?, posted by Phyl on January 6, 2003, at 10:28:04
what? you mean that isn't normal for everyone?
I can be physically exhausted but the minute my head hits the pillow, my world wakes up. I am calmed by a quiet cd player on my night table, no not music, music makes me dance, scriptures relax my mind. Boring? not really, just peaceful.
Posted by Tabitha on January 6, 2003, at 13:25:37
In reply to What is a busy mind?, posted by Phyl on January 6, 2003, at 10:28:04
I used to have imaginary conversations before bedtime when I was a kid and teenager. They were either romantic fantasy stuff (e.g. alone on an island with Mick Jagger, where he'd tell me how special I was) or else I'd be talking about my life to my imaginary psychiatrist.
Also before meds my brain was just constantly creating things. Mostly ideas for things I could make. With the meds, my brain is much quieter overall, but I still tend to lie in bed and recycle work problems and aggravations.
Posted by coral on January 6, 2003, at 16:39:39
In reply to What is a busy mind?, posted by Phyl on January 6, 2003, at 10:28:04
Ahhh.... the advent of white noise. While I'm currently depression-free and have been for a long time, I, too, chatter noisily in my mind while attempting to go to sleep. I can fall asleep on the couch with the television going and IF I can make it upstairs (after my husband gently wakes me) and into bed before becoming fully awake, I can go back to sleep. If I go straight to bed, it's at least an hour before sleep. Since I'm a writer, I put the time to good use by mentally working on whatever I'm writing at the time. Actually, it's nice prep time for the writing I'll be doing early in the morning, although I wonder what several hours of nothing but sleep would feel like.
Posted by Noa on January 6, 2003, at 18:41:16
In reply to Re: What is a busy mind?, posted by coral on January 6, 2003, at 16:39:39
Ok, here is one to ponder--maybe you guys can help me understand this one better.
"The mind is an excellent tool, but a terrible friend."
What do you think?
Posted by Dinah on January 6, 2003, at 19:17:31
In reply to Re: What is a busy mind?, posted by Noa on January 6, 2003, at 11:36:21
I always fantasized about being an orphan. Wonder what that meant. :)
I had an active fantasy life until my therapist asked about my fantasies. Then they went away, at once and completely.
After my risperdal trial was over, I had a period of very very good mood. My fantasies started right where they had stopped as if it was yesterday instead of seven years ago. Weird.
Then back to nothing.
Posted by Phyl on January 6, 2003, at 19:36:56
In reply to Re: What is a busy mind?, posted by Noa on January 6, 2003, at 18:41:16
> Ok, here is one to ponder--maybe you guys can help me understand this one better.
>
> "The mind is an excellent tool, but a terrible friend."
>
> What do you think?. Hmmm. First, thanks to all of you who replied to my original question. I'll bet most people fantasize, but it isn't something they go around explaining for no particular reason.
As for the quote, Noa. Could it mean that the mind is wonderful when you are able to use it well and "efficiently" but if you "confide in it" -- tell it too much, question it too much, keep secrets with it, it bogs down and turns its back on you? It just isn't able to help. It wants to just do a good job and not be "hampered" by extraneous, incidental, frivolous matters?
It's a very thought-provoking statement. I'd like to see what others think it means. Thanks.
I'll probably go to bed and keep turning this around in my mind now for a couple of hours. (Sigh)
Posted by Kar on January 6, 2003, at 21:37:30
In reply to Re: What is a busy mind?, posted by Noa on January 6, 2003, at 18:41:16
...how big my rear end is, but it can't lie to me by telling me that it looks fine!
Posted by Noa on January 7, 2003, at 4:45:54
In reply to It can see... » Noa, posted by Kar on January 6, 2003, at 21:37:30
LOL and I think your post helps me understand the saying better!
It was brought up by my therapist. He said it came to mind when I was talking about wishing I was not so in need of outside affirmation, that I wish I could get some positive feelings from inside, instead of all the negative. He said, he had heard someone say it in another type of context, but that it might apply.
I understood it on a simple level, but found it very abstract when trying to see how it applies to me. I mean, I understood a little how it applies, but I'm still trying to integrate it.
I think I understand a little better with your joke.
Posted by Noa on January 7, 2003, at 4:51:39
In reply to Re: What is a busy mind?, posted by Phyl on January 6, 2003, at 19:36:56
Yes, I think so, Phyl-that the mind does let us down, betrays us. My mind is often not friendly to me. I always assumed I have to change that to get better, but have felt unable to change how I really feel about myself, but my therapist was trying to make the point that maybe it is too much too expect my mind to give me good feelings about myself. The context of this discussion is that I have an added layer of depression that really makes my depression worse, which is about being mad at myself for being depressed. Also, we were discussing my wish not to be so needy for outside affirmation, that I wish I could get some good feelings about myself from inside.
I am still trying to inegrate what this quote means and how it applies. Thanks for helping in that process.
Posted by wendy b. on January 7, 2003, at 6:57:26
In reply to Re: What is a busy mind? » Phyl, posted by Noa on January 7, 2003, at 4:51:39
> Yes, I think so, Phyl-that the mind does let us down, betrays us. My mind is often not friendly to me. I always assumed I have to change that to get better, but have felt unable to change how I really feel about myself, but my therapist was trying to make the point that maybe it is too much too expect my mind to give me good feelings about myself. The context of this discussion is that I have an added layer of depression that really makes my depression worse, which is about being mad at myself for being depressed. Also, we were discussing my wish not to be so needy for outside affirmation, that I wish I could get some good feelings about myself from inside.
>
> I am still trying to inegrate what this quote means and how it applies. Thanks for helping in that process.
___________________"The mind is an excellent tool, but a terrible friend."
What I get from this aphorism is:
the mind is an excellent tool, because it houses the intellect and can unlock certain kinds of mysteries, it's the seat of rationality and discovery. It helps us make sense of our world.But it makes a terrible friend - this makes me ask myself: what do friends do with us or for us, what do we turn to them for? Comfort, another view on reality, an ear that will listen and perhaps respond kindly. I guess the shrink is saying that we can't rely on ourselves/our minds for the things we'd rely on a friend for. That talking to ourselves, having inner conversations, only goes so far, and sometimes confuses us. Like you say, you're mad at yourself about being depressed. A good friend wouldn't do that to you, I think he's trying to say. But yes, you have to validate those feelings, and look to yourself for comfort to a certain degree, but you can also rely on others, and him, too, I suppose. You can't go it alone...
Does this make any sense? Just ruminations...
Have a wonderful day,
Wendy
Posted by Noa on January 8, 2003, at 17:51:41
In reply to Re: a suggestion » Noa, posted by wendy b. on January 7, 2003, at 6:57:26
Yes, thank you Wendy. I think that is probably what he was trying to get across.
And I suppose it is true.
Today I am feeling a lot better because in the last 2 days, I have felt a lot of solidarity with my two colleagues who are sort of in the same boat as me at work. I told them today how supported I feel with them, (regarding this personnel issue that has come up recently). This has made my anxiety less intense. I'm still somewhat anxious about it all, but not overwhelmed with anxiety and depression about it. I feel I am thinking clearer about the issues and sorting out what I think, what I'm angry about (without the rage muddying it all), etc.
This is the end of the thread.
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