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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 22 to 46 of 46. Go back in thread:
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 18, 2002, at 18:55:04
In reply to Egads! Be careful! » Gabbix2, posted by Dinah on December 18, 2002, at 18:17:38
Thanks Dinah,
I'm already cutting back, it reminds me an awful lot of Effexor which makes perfect sense to a lay-person like me, but not my DR.
It does increase noripinephrine and dopamine
the Paxil incrases serotonin, add that together and it theoretically could be EFFEXOR!I've advised my roomates.
You know, I don't much like this.
Thanks Dinah.
Posted by Dinah on December 18, 2002, at 21:33:11
In reply to Re: Egads! Be careful! » Dinah, posted by Gabbix2 on December 18, 2002, at 18:55:04
I think pdocs need their heads examined. Mine put me on Effexor after a disastrous Wellbutrin/Luvox experience. I even questioned the wisdom of it.
I'm glad you're taking care of yourself, Gabbi. It's a shame that we have to, isn't it?
Posted by utopizen on December 25, 2002, at 23:28:19
In reply to Re: Tsk Tsk Tsk » Gabbix2, posted by Dinah on December 18, 2002, at 21:33:11
I want a lobotomy, I always did- how much do they go for? I hope my insurance could pay for it. I have some mild social anxiety and I pace around sometimes when I'm bored. Maybe a lobotomy would work on me. Speaking of which, anyone else pace? It really doesn't set me far apart from an Asperger's person, only I have a high degree of insight into others (which isn't helping my social anxiety).
Posted by Ritch on December 27, 2002, at 14:15:48
In reply to How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by utopizen on December 25, 2002, at 23:28:19
> I want a lobotomy, I always did- how much do they go for? I hope my insurance could pay for it. I have some mild social anxiety and I pace around sometimes when I'm bored. Maybe a lobotomy would work on me. Speaking of which, anyone else pace? It really doesn't set me far apart from an Asperger's person, only I have a high degree of insight into others (which isn't helping my social anxiety).
I think that only the government knows for sure how much a lobotomy costs (Now I've got Ramones music playing in my head). I doubt if insurance would cover it, and if they did it would probably be easy to find out how much :) Pacing? Yeah, I am a pacer. I've got the taut leg musculature of a feral cat! I think I burn a few thousand calories a week doing precisely that. When I was going to school and had to sit down (and be captive) that translated into restless legs and fidgeting and pencil tapping, chewing, etc. Do Asperger folks pace a bunch? I hadn't heard of that. .. .. .. ..
Posted by Peter S. on December 27, 2002, at 15:42:28
In reply to How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by utopizen on December 25, 2002, at 23:28:19
As far as I know lobotomies are ancient history. They used to do them with violent psychotic patients but have long been considered extremely inhumane and have been outlawed (I believe). They generally result in a state of permanent psychic deadness and cognitive impairment.
Have you seen a psychiatrist?
> I want a lobotomy, I always did- how much do they go for? I hope my insurance could pay for it. I have some mild social anxiety and I pace around sometimes when I'm bored. Maybe a lobotomy would work on me. Speaking of which, anyone else pace? It really doesn't set me far apart from an Asperger's person, only I have a high degree of insight into others (which isn't helping my social anxiety).
Posted by Peter S. on December 27, 2002, at 15:44:45
In reply to How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by utopizen on December 25, 2002, at 23:28:19
maybe?
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 27, 2002, at 15:55:29
In reply to Re: How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by Ritch on December 27, 2002, at 14:15:48
Did you know the first lobotomy's were done with ice-picks? and not very long ago either.
Horrifying yes, but somehow to those of us handing our brains over to 'professionals'on a regular basis probably not all that surprising.
I didn't mean that to sound down on all 'profesionals' at all it just seems that depression and doing our own research
renders one fairly shock proof.. no pun intended.
Posted by dreamerz on December 27, 2002, at 16:51:37
In reply to Re: How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by Gabbix2 on December 27, 2002, at 15:55:29
Ice pick , messy , owwtch ,skull would be kaput . Think I'd prefer a drill - more clean just block the hole with a suitable peg...or the handy hole could be useful.
Posted by Tabitha on December 27, 2002, at 19:34:16
In reply to Re: How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by dreamerz on December 27, 2002, at 16:51:37
I think the icepick went in thru the eye sockets, not the skull. The lucky recipients ended up with big black eyes. THere was some famous doctor who pioneered it who could do hundreds per day. Yuck. What a psycho.
Posted by oracle on December 29, 2002, at 23:34:33
In reply to Re: How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by Tabitha on December 27, 2002, at 19:34:16
> I think the icepick went in thru the eye sockets, not the skull. The lucky recipients ended up with big black eyes. THere was some famous doctor who pioneered it who could do hundreds per day. Yuck. What a psycho.
This was the so called "button hook" opperation.
It sure did quiet them crazy folk down, though.
left them with no memory or personality.However, "Psyco surgury" is still done today in extream cases. Very specific destruction of connections and structures in the brain when those structures are ID'ed to be the cause of the problems.
Posted by Jason Higgins on December 30, 2002, at 2:14:30
In reply to Re: How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by oracle on December 29, 2002, at 23:34:33
I am new to this website and I am fascinated by it. It's so amazingly comforting to read other people experiencing the same things I've been going through.
I had a mental breakdown two weeks ago and attempted suicide. Afterwards I realised I didn't really want to die - I just urgently needed some help.
I had my first session with a therapist last week and I am on moclobemide. I think it's really helping. I feel much more possitive , although the things that are troubling me haven't gone away obviously.
I am fascinated by your discussions about drugs and what I am intrigued by is really a philosophical question. If my personality and identity is the by-product of a series of electrical and chemical processes in my brain - processes which can be manipulated by drugs - is there something in there that is the real, core me? Mocolobemide is making me feel better, but is is reality?
Posted by syringachalet on December 30, 2002, at 18:59:11
In reply to How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by utopizen on December 25, 2002, at 23:28:19
During my nursing training on the states ownded psych units back in the late 1970s, I was assigned the care of a male patient whom had a lobotomy back in the 1950s.
He had been a professioanl boxer and since his admission had retained a right hook that could still knock a adult male attendent on his butt.
This patients medical record(which was over 12 inches thick), had been tried on all of the current medical treatment of the time prior to his lobotomy. Neither the insulin therapys or the ECT treatments back then helped calm this now gentle giant of a man.His mental illness was pre- Thorazine, Stelaizne, Melleril; neither Prolixin or Haldol were probably even concieved yet.He did had two half inch burr holes drilled into the frontal part of his skull(on top of the skull but in front of the ears laterally). The doctors were not able to totally sedate him during the procedure as with any of todays brain surgerys. The doctors needed to be able to constantly assess the patients vital signs and his level of consciencious and ability to follow simple commands..open eyes, move finger, etc. It was thought back in the 1950s that it was kindered to calm the pateint by this procedure than to house him like an animal in a cell or keep him tied down running the risk of hurting himself or others.
(I have had burr holes in my own head once (NOT TO HAVE A LOBOTOMY) and after numbing the skin, there is really not a lot of pain...but that another story!)
Medications for treatment for anxiety, depression and anger have snowballed over the eyars and no MD now would consider such a procedure now.
I have seen several patients over the years whom had done their own 'chemical lobotomy' with illegal drugs and alcohol. Combining these with precription drugs is a receipe for disaster.
And as for one whom has seen its permentent effects, you would not want have any of it...
After all, what is YOUR personal freedom and independence (at whatever level it might be right now) worth to you?? Once you figure that out, then the rest is fairly simple...syringachalet
Posted by utopizen on December 31, 2002, at 13:18:31
In reply to Re: How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by syringachalet on December 30, 2002, at 18:59:11
Can one still love after a lobotomy?
It's just that my doc won't prescribe me a mg of Klonopin each day, and I've got no girlfriend as a result. I'm rather good-looking too, and 19, it's a shame.
Posted by syringachalet on December 31, 2002, at 13:40:36
In reply to Re: How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by utopizen on December 31, 2002, at 13:18:31
utopizen,
i find your dessert-dry sense of humor delightfully refeshing.
I think the idea of a physical lobotomy should be buried...RIP...
I think that you should really try to talk with your current psych doc and then if you still cant find the medical attention you need, maybe you should get a second opinion..
But doing that will require that you start a new and often drudge up all the old stuff you might not be ready to deal with.As for the female encounters, have you considered that you might be trying too hard?
Going safe places like church or concerts or even football games might be a safer place to just meet people that a realtionship may or may not result?( Most women tell me that most guys they meet in bars or clubs that come up to them, arent there cause they are thristy.. they just want in their panties...)
Just consider these ideas and let me know how youre doing.. you seem like a nice young man who just needs to feel you belong...dont we all...
syringachalet
Posted by gabbix2 on December 31, 2002, at 19:34:56
In reply to what's real?, posted by Jason Higgins on December 30, 2002, at 2:14:30
Welcome Jason, it is comforting isn't it to find a place that makes you feel less alien.
Question What is real?
That I think is a question that philosophers have pondered since antiquity.
I couldn't begin to answer, after all it would be impossible for anyone to prove that anything exists outside there own reality. After all, even if people agreed with you, you'd never know if perhaps they were just products of your imagination.However one thing I have noticed, is that for me there is an understanding that somehow my negative perceptions are correct, whereas my happy or content moments are simply a fluke.
Really that makes no sense logically.Also medication at first can sometimes make you feel a little 'over wound' like you are happy but have nothing to attach that emotion too, in my experience. I too wondered if I should really feel okay, while sitting on my couch with nothing to do.
For me it mellowed out, but it does hopefully help to get you on the bottom rung so to speak, where you can make some positive changes where you can feel your happiness is more grounded in reality.
Once again, welcome, and I hope that helped a little.
Happy new year.
Posted by TheHermit on January 3, 2003, at 11:58:15
In reply to Re: How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by oracle on December 29, 2002, at 23:34:33
> > I think the icepick went in thru the eye sockets, not the skull. The lucky recipients ended up with big black eyes. THere was some famous doctor who pioneered it who could do hundreds per day. Yuck. What a psycho.
>
> This was the so called "button hook" opperation.
> It sure did quiet them crazy folk down, though.
> left them with no memory or personality.I thought you were talking about ice-axes at first - Trotsky-style!
Another option is Trepanning. There's a complete chapter on how to do it right here:
http://www.noah.org/trepan/people_with_holes_in_their_heads.html
I'm not sure I fancy it myself, but maybe if I take a month's supply of Effexor and a fifth of vodka I'd be up for it - after all the Effexor on it's own doesn't seem to be a long-term solution: I'm just totally socio-phobic, unemployable zombie! Lotsa people seem to say trepanning's groovy - there was a docu. on it a while back. I thought it was done behind the ear though, and the trepanation tool sounds a lot safer than the electric drill approach that Joey Mellen and Amanda Fielding ended up with. Apparently the idea is to enable your brain to pulsate like it did when you were a baby with a flexible head, maximize the amount of blood in your brain, and give you a permanent high. Joey dropped acid to calm him down while he used the made the hole(s) (it took three attempts) - I guess your hands would shake less with LSD than vodka or cannabis! Anyway, if you do a Google search, it seems like you can buy the tools and everything. Then you just need a partner with a strong stomach!!
It's got a little more 'chic' than a random lobotomy, and has got to be less random than the SSRI's they've been trying me on for the last seven years - whaddya think?
Posted by Kam on January 4, 2003, at 1:23:57
In reply to what's real?, posted by Jason Higgins on December 30, 2002, at 2:14:30
What is real is smiling at someone and making them smile back, listening to a baby laughing, holding a loved ones hand, yes, I am on SSRI's for panic and it's been tough, tried 4 of them on my fifth, but thats okay because I have life. If it takes meds to make up for my past abusive life so be it. I have come to grips with that. EVERYONE that is decent in this world has something to give back. When you wake up tomorrow do yourself a big favor and just say THANK YOU ! And if you need to, look for friend to help !!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by utopizen on January 4, 2003, at 11:16:42
In reply to Re: How much is a lobotomy nowadays? » oracle, posted by TheHermit on January 3, 2003, at 11:58:15
> > It's got a little more 'chic' than a random lobotomy, and has got to be less random than the SSRI's they've been trying me on for the last seven years - whaddya think?
>>It's very odd that a p-doc has been treating you with SSRIs with no benefit for a year. In fact, a year is odd, but not unusual with the more stubborn docs. But 7 years? Most people tend to switch from the SSRI-work-or-you're-not-treatable delusional docs after a year of failed treatments (and that comes from my own p-doc, who's expecting me to leave him soon for this reason).
Have you tried the benzos? Generally, after a year, you're in the make for whatever benzo you want. And if those don't work, you've advanced to the level of barbiturate trials. After 7 years, geez, docs should be on to the stage of giving you injectable Dilaudid or something. Go to a research hospital's psychopharma dept., they'll do whatever they can to treat you. If they don't, it looks bad on them to the students they're teaching there.
They tend not to say "um, yeah, we don't know how to treat this guy, so we just give me Effexor refills every month to make him think it's his fault."
Posted by syringachalet on January 4, 2003, at 13:26:11
In reply to Re: How much is a lobotomy nowadays? » TheHermit, posted by utopizen on January 4, 2003, at 11:16:42
utopizen,
I agree with you that no doc-pdoc I have ever known would let a patient go untreated or unrelieved for so long a time.
I have some patients that withheld what was really happening with them(for a variety of reasons).
For these people, I was not really able to effective help them for a while.( < 6 months)
I do try to read body language and verb cues.
I guess they thought I could read their minds.It must take the effort of the patient and the doctor communicating the effectiveness or lack of for the medication to be an effective tool in helping relieve some of the patients symptoms.
If your doctor is not interested in helping you get the right med combo, perhaps its time for a "second opinion'. Any doc worth his 'sheep skin on the wall' would not be threathened by a second opinion.
Most HMOs and insurance companies here in the USA require a 'second opinion' for any expensive medical procedure being done that the insurance will be required to cover the cost of...So the decision is: Is your med situation bad enough that you will bring it up to your doc on your next visit.. or find a new doc that will meet YOUR needs?
Please keep me (us) posted on how this situation resolves itself and know that we do care and are here to support you whatever you decide to do..
syringachalet
Posted by utopizen on January 6, 2003, at 17:27:36
In reply to We need a new subject line here...., posted by syringachalet on January 4, 2003, at 13:26:11
I thank you for the kind words.
I also understand where my doc is coming from. I mean, he is rather qualified, he's a child+adult psych., went to Harvard Med, has been published, and did work for HMOs for a time to do psychopharma consulting. So he's said he's seen people in my situation go into Klonopin junkie mode, even though drug abuse was not the cause (treating anxiety was). And de-tox resulted, and then he said if I had to go through de-tox, I couldn't ever get Klonopin for PRN again. But it's a mixed bag, I'm like, well Klonopin PRN isn't go great either, because it takes a few weeks of regular dosing for the sedatative effects to wean away.
But I'm going to see if he's more open about Soma, otherwise we sort of have this mutual understanding that I'll probably be at MGH's psychopharma dept. soon and see someone there.
Posted by syringachalet on January 6, 2003, at 23:46:33
In reply to Re: We need a new subject line here.... » syringachalet, posted by utopizen on January 6, 2003, at 17:27:36
utopizen,
Sounds like your still between a rock and a hard place.You are like so many people today..just making it one day at a time...
Unfornatuely you are like some of my other patients who are on THE BIG K as they like to call their Klonopin view it as only a bandaid on a bad situation. Until something better comes along, they too, will just have to make it work as well as it can for them for as long as it can...
It hard to be face-to-face with yourself.
I just finished a small paperback that was loaned to me by a nurse friend titled , "I Aint Much Baby But Im All I Got' by Jess Lair, Ph.d. that was both fun and insightful into everyday situations and is written like regular people talk.Im not plugging anyones book but he talked about how frightening it can be to be face-to-face with your real self and several situations involving vulnerability issues. He also spoke of how empowering it can be...Good luck with THE BIG K, utopizen, and know we are here for you.
Be Well. syringachalet
Posted by utopizen on January 7, 2003, at 8:18:10
In reply to Re: We need a new subject line here...., posted by syringachalet on January 6, 2003, at 23:46:33
thanks. I get 10 or 15 .5mg every 3-5 months for anxiety as needed. About 1mg is needed per dose. I wish I could get a bit more... and going to parties on it is awful, I feel no drive to talk at all.
I like the way the K looks on the brand name pill (I've seen pictures). I'd like to pay the extra $5 co-pay just to see that K.
Posted by oracle on January 7, 2003, at 11:56:37
In reply to Re: How much is a lobotomy nowadays? » oracle, posted by TheHermit on January 3, 2003, at 11:58:15
> Another option is Trepanning. There's a complete chapter on how to do it right here:
Thats only an oprion if:
1 You are crazy
2 You are stupid
3 You are a cave man
Posted by TheHermit on January 7, 2003, at 14:03:31
In reply to Re: How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by oracle on January 7, 2003, at 11:56:37
> > Another option is Trepanning. There's a complete chapter on how to do it right here:
>
> Thats only an oprion if:
>
> 1 You are crazy
> 2 You are stupid
> 3 You are a cave manHey, Thanks Oracle! - Looks like I qualify on all three counts! Only thing is, I'm short of a cave - any rooms to rent in your house? PS, any evidence, for or against?
Lovin' Ya,
Mark
Posted by utopizen on January 7, 2003, at 20:56:50
In reply to Re: How much is a lobotomy nowadays?, posted by oracle on January 7, 2003, at 11:56:37
> > Another option is Trepanning. There's a complete chapter on how to do it right here:
>
> Thats only an oprion if:
>
> 1 You are crazy
> 2 You are stupid
> 3 You are a cave manI'm checking off all three myself =)
This is the end of the thread.
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