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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tabitha on September 2, 2003, at 1:56:38
Here I am, a big muddle of uncomfortable feelings. I can't make much sense of it. I almost wish I had some dramatic tragedy to talk about, so folks would rush to my aid. I feel a little depressed and adrift. I don't feel connected to my therapist lately and I don't understand that. I'm still longing for my ex-boyfriend, even though I know it's an illusion that I'd find anything but temporary comfort there. None of the home repair work has started, and my various reorganization projects are strewn about unfinished. I have so much yarn. A whole boxful of swatches I knit for various unfinished projects. It's depressing to remember all the projects I started and never finished. It makes me afraid I'll never finish all the projects I'm starting now.
I don't know if the loneliness is telling me to find companionship, or to look deeper at myself. I don't want to come across as needy to others. My ex-boyfriend's neediness was so repulsive to me, now I'm afraid to ever act moody and demanding.
My therapist has an opening in one of her groups, and I'm torn between starting or not. It's a six month commitment. Meaning you can't drop out even if you hate it-- you're actually on the hook to pay for 6 months of sessions if you drop out.
I keep doing web searches on loneliness, attachment, neediness, trying to find some answer.
Then there's the ever-present thought--- maybe I just need to up my meds.
Posted by Dinah on September 2, 2003, at 4:17:47
In reply to Discontent, Confusion, Loneliness, Longing, posted by Tabitha on September 2, 2003, at 1:56:38
Well, I don't know if I can aid, but I'll rush to support. What you're feeling is so darn close to what I'm feeling. I'm even not terribly in tune with my therapist, who is in a "fix it" mode, when what I need is a "holding" mode. I need to be emotionally held, and reminded that there's at least one place I can connect. And he wants to do some pretty intrusive CBT. It may not be a dramatic tragedy, but I consider that feeling of intrinsic existential loneliness to be pretty tragic indeed. (((((Tabitha))))) I wish I could make it go away for you. I wish I could give you a real life hug, or sit around watching depressing movies with you. Or broad comedies. Whichever helps you more.
I've already given up on finishing my current project, and have already heard the frustrated "I told you so" from my poor beleagured husband. I'll do a bit more in the evenings. What is it about it that depresses you the most? I think with me, it's that it reminds me of how much I'm like my mother. Because there's no real sin in starting and not completing a project. The trouble lies in interpreting something into it other than we're just human with short attention spans and limited energy.
Your ex sounded rather over the top with his neediness. And insensitive about it as well. With some maturing to do that it sounds like you've done (although everyone needs tune ups from time to time). You may feel needy, but you realize the neediness is yours. And you don't try to grab what you need from the other without any regard for their boundaries and wellbeing.
Have you been in a group before? I think you said it was a pretty intensive psychodynamic group? That is a big decision to make. Are there some questions you can ask her to clarify your reservations? What is the general level of functioning in the group? Since many of your concerns right now are relational, I can see the advantages. And you appear from here, at least, to have the psychological maturity to be able to withstand the challenges of being confronted. I've always wanted to experience it, but I recognize my own limitations too well to think I'm anywhere near ready. What sort of benefits do you think you can glean from such a group? And what are you afraid might happen? Is this what you want to focus on during your sabbatical? Do you want to reach and grow during it? Or are you more interested in nurturing yourself and giving yourself respite?
Part of my depressed mood tonight was a psychologist's review of the movie A.I. with Haley Joel Osment as the little boy robot who is programmed to love his "mother" with a perfect intense love that she just can't tolerate. And the review went on to talk about the failure of the mother to love him back. And how the myth of perfect unconditional mother love was just that - a myth. And how none of us ever gets the sort of love we need, and all of us grow up feeling that lack. It was so true. And so in keeping with my present mood of terrible sorrow over the universal human condition. (or what I imagine the universal human condition is at least) We are, in the end, all so alone. Even the most beloved. Like my grandma. Everyone loved her. She was so giving. She had children and grandchildren and community and a husband that adored her. Oh, you should have seen my grandfather look at her. And yet, she never gave a hint of what was going on inside. She did for others, she gave, she worked. But I can't help feeling that as enriched as her life was, as full of work and family and love and church, that she too must have been alone with her pain. I wish I could have asked her some questions about life, but I suspect that she would have told me that life was work and family and church, and wouldn't have mentioned the icky stuff underneath.
Eesh, maybe I shouldn't have answered today. Today I'm just too pessimistic that any of us will ever get what we so desperately need. Gabbi described it so much better than I ever could (as usual). I need to bookmark that post.
Not much aid, I'm afraid. Just some commiseration.
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 2, 2003, at 9:42:28
In reply to Discontent, Confusion, Loneliness, Longing, posted by Tabitha on September 2, 2003, at 1:56:38
> I don't know if the loneliness is telling me to find companionship, or to look deeper at myself.
----------I'm convinced that other people can't make you happy. They may temporarily distract you from feeling bad, but if you're not able to be satisfied on your own, the other person will feel the increasing drag, and things just get worse. The only truly useful thing that others may be able to offer is proof that you're not unloveable, which was a dismal notion that I had for quite a while.
I think that the key to feeling better lies heavily in doing different things. Talk to people you wouldn't normaly talk to. Go places you haven't been. Walk instead of dive. Anything to make your brain have to adapt and grow. A depressed brain silently controls your actions, and you need to wrest control back from it. Subvert yourself. Good ADs don't hurt the process either.
Posted by Penny on September 2, 2003, at 10:40:42
In reply to Discontent, Confusion, Loneliness, Longing, posted by Tabitha on September 2, 2003, at 1:56:38
Perhaps the committment of a six month program would bring some needed stability to your life right now. Since the money would have to be paid anyway, perhaps it would be more enticing to you to go all the way with the group.
Also, though, I agree with Dinah in that we all place too much emphasis on finishing projects that we start. There are certain things that I suppose *must* be finished (though I can't think of any right now!) but for the most part, what difference does it make? Don't beat yourself up over unfinished projects. I, too, have quite a few of those - a stool I was painting for a friend's baby that I never finished, the cross-stitch that I am *almost* done with but haven't had the energy to pick up in several days, etc.
I also agree with Eddie in that you can't look to others to fill your loneliness. They might distract you from feeling bad for a while, which could be a good thing as we all need an occasional break from the bad feelings, but in the end we have to gather our strength and happiness from inside ourselves.
That said, I don't know how to do this exactly, as I am feeling quite lonely and confused at the moment as well...
Posted by Tabitha on September 2, 2003, at 15:38:27
In reply to Re: Discontent, Confusion, Loneliness, Longing » Tabitha, posted by Dinah on September 2, 2003, at 4:17:47
> Well, I don't know if I can aid, but I'll rush to support. What you're feeling is so darn close to what I'm feeling. I'm even not terribly in tune with my therapist, who is in a "fix it" mode, when what I need is a "holding" mode. I need to be emotionally held, and reminded that there's at least one place I can connect. And he wants to do some pretty intrusive CBT. It may not be a dramatic tragedy, but I consider that feeling of intrinsic existential loneliness to be pretty tragic indeed. (((((Tabitha))))) I wish I could make it go away for you. I wish I could give you a real life hug, or sit around watching depressing movies with you. Or broad comedies. Whichever helps you more.
Thanks Dinah, that understanding really helps. I have my session at 4pm, and somehow I feel certain she'll spend it nagging me to eat protein for breakfast, make a daily schedule, and place a personal ad. And/or get a med consult. And none of that nagging will prompt any action. I'd better just go in there and tell her those fears.
>
> I've already given up on finishing my current project, and have already heard the frustrated "I told you so" from my poor beleagured husband. I'll do a bit more in the evenings. What is it about it that depresses you the most? I think with me, it's that it reminds me of how much I'm like my mother. Because there's no real sin in starting and not completing a project. The trouble lies in interpreting something into it other than we're just human with short attention spans and limited energy.
So true, but then there's the remnants of the project lying around. I keep sorting them, storing them, then years later giving them to charity. You're right, no reason to feel guilty.>
> Your ex sounded rather over the top with his neediness. And insensitive about it as well. With some maturing to do that it sounds like you've done (although everyone needs tune ups from time to time). You may feel needy, but you realize the neediness is yours. And you don't try to grab what you need from the other without any regard for their boundaries and wellbeing.Thanks so much for saying this! It really made a difference. I hope it's true. He was such a negative mirror for me, for the way I used to relate to people, before all the therapy. I've gotten better, I think.
>
> Have you been in a group before? I think you said it was a pretty intensive psychodynamic group? That is a big decision to make. Are there some questions you can ask her to clarify your reservations? What is the general level of functioning in the group? Since many of your concerns right now are relational, I can see the advantages. And you appear from here, at least, to have the psychological maturity to be able to withstand the challenges of being confronted. I've always wanted to experience it, but I recognize my own limitations too well to think I'm anywhere near ready. What sort of benefits do you think you can glean from such a group? And what are you afraid might happen? Is this what you want to focus on during your sabbatical? Do you want to reach and grow during it? Or are you more interested in nurturing yourself and giving yourself respite?These are the right questions to ask. I just assume I always need more relationship therapy, until I'm actually able to form and sustain nurturing relationships. But I don't have any enthusiasm for the group at all now. I also feel the therapist is disappointed in me, or doesn't really want me in the group. Lots of confusion.
>
> Part of my depressed mood tonight was a psychologist's review of the movie A.I. with Haley Joel Osment as the little boy robot who is programmed to love his "mother" with a perfect intense love that she just can't tolerate. And the review went on to talk about the failure of the mother to love him back. And how the myth of perfect unconditional mother love was just that - a myth. And how none of us ever gets the sort of love we need, and all of us grow up feeling that lack. It was so true. And so in keeping with my present mood of terrible sorrow over the universal human condition. (or what I imagine the universal human condition is at least) We are, in the end, all so alone. Even the most beloved. Like my grandma. Everyone loved her. She was so giving. She had children and grandchildren and community and a husband that adored her. Oh, you should have seen my grandfather look at her. And yet, she never gave a hint of what was going on inside. She did for others, she gave, she worked. But I can't help feeling that as enriched as her life was, as full of work and family and love and church, that she too must have been alone with her pain. I wish I could have asked her some questions about life, but I suspect that she would have told me that life was work and family and church, and wouldn't have mentioned the icky stuff underneath.
True, true, true. Makes me want to pick up buddhist practice again, because it just starts with the assumption that the human condition is painful and difficult.
>
> Eesh, maybe I shouldn't have answered today. Today I'm just too pessimistic that any of us will ever get what we so desperately need. Gabbi described it so much better than I ever could (as usual). I need to bookmark that post.
>
> Not much aid, I'm afraid. Just some commiseration.No, much aid, really. Thank you.
Posted by Tabitha on September 2, 2003, at 15:39:26
In reply to Re: Discontent, Confusion, Loneliness, Longing, posted by Tabitha on September 2, 2003, at 15:38:27
Posted by Tabitha on September 2, 2003, at 15:43:31
In reply to Re: Discontent, Confusion, Loneliness, Longing » Tabitha, posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 2, 2003, at 9:42:28
You're right Eddie. Doing different things really helps get me out of the rut. I've made improvement lately, but it's so easy to fall into a new rut, you know?
I know others can't take me from unhappy to happy. Then again, we need some social contact, right? I don't understand the boundary. How much are others supposed to provide? But being alone and miserable somehow feels more right than seeking new friends or dates now. Or is that just self-destructive isolating? It's so hard to tell.
Posted by Tabitha on September 2, 2003, at 15:49:31
In reply to Re: Discontent, Confusion, Loneliness, Longing » Tabitha, posted by Penny on September 2, 2003, at 10:40:42
Thank you, Penny. I just opened all the yarn boxes, and it looks like there are supplies and swatches and parts for 7 different unfinished sweaters. And yarn ain't cheap! I suppose I should think of it as entertainment rather than projects... how many pleasant hours did I spend planning and starting the projects? Looking at it that way, I probably got the money's worth.
It seems like I can learn something from this loneliness if I endure it enough. I thought I had already come to terms with it. But here it is again, brought up by the recent dating experience. Perhaps it's some kind of cyclical process
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 3, 2003, at 9:35:20
In reply to Re: Discontent, Confusion, Loneliness, Longing » Eddie Sylvano, posted by Tabitha on September 2, 2003, at 15:43:31
> I know others can't take me from unhappy to happy. Then again, we need some social contact, right? I don't understand the boundary. How much are others supposed to provide?
-------------It's not clear cut. A few rules that make sense to me:
Relationships should be reciprocal. If one person is doing most of the social or emotional work in maintaining it, something's wrong.
You should not need the approval of others to be happy (but you can certainly appreciate it).
You should have at least an hour or two by yourself each day.
You should be able to be yourself at all times (which also entails knowing yourself).The number of hours you spend with others isn't really important. It's more the nature of the time you spend with them, and the ability to be by yourself without always feeling lonely.
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 9, 2003, at 15:32:46
In reply to Re: Discontent, Confusion, Loneliness, Longing » Tabitha, posted by Dinah on September 2, 2003, at 4:17:47
>And so in keeping with my present mood of terrible sorrow over the universal human condition. (or what I imagine the universal human condition is at least) We are, in the end, all so alone.
>I kindof hope that we are alone in the universe. I could see how an alien could look at Earth and the parasite humans that took Earth over and corrupted it. They might send over their version of pest control.
KDi in Texas
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 9, 2003, at 15:41:30
In reply to Re: Discontent, Confusion, Loneliness, Longing » Tabitha, posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 2, 2003, at 9:42:28
And love yourself! Accept who you are and nuture yourself! When you see yourself as loveable, you should have faith that someone else can/will love you too.
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 9, 2003, at 16:04:06
In reply to Re: Discontent, Confusion, Loneliness, Longing, posted by Tabitha on September 2, 2003, at 15:38:27
>These are the right questions to ask. I just assume I always need more relationship therapy, until I'm actually able to form and sustain nurturing relationships. But I don't have any enthusiasm for the group at all now. I also feel the therapist is disappointed in me, or doesn't really want me in the group. Lots of confusion.
>
Classic! Fear that your therapist is disappointed in you or my fear that "my therapist doesn't like me".Consider that since it's your therapist's job to help you and maybe he/she feels like she's/he's failed YOU.
KDi in Texas
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 9, 2003, at 16:16:40
In reply to Re: Discontent, Confusion, Loneliness, Longing » Tabitha, posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 3, 2003, at 9:35:20
Eddie! Are you married? <grin> If not, do you live near DFW TX? I like the way you think!
j/k
KDi in Texas> It's not clear cut. A few rules that make sense to me:
> Relationships should be reciprocal. If one person is doing most of the social or emotional work in maintaining it, something's wrong.
> You should not need the approval of others to be happy (but you can certainly appreciate it).
> You should have at least an hour or two by yourself each day.
> You should be able to be yourself at all times (which also entails knowing yourself).
>
> The number of hours you spend with others isn't really important. It's more the nature of the time you spend with them, and the ability to be by yourself without always feeling lonely.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 9, 2003, at 16:30:06
In reply to Re: Discontent, Confusion, Loneliness, Longing, posted by KimberlyDi on September 9, 2003, at 16:16:40
> Eddie! Are you married? <grin> If not, do you live near DFW TX? I like the way you think!
>
--------No on both counts, but I am engaged (something I thought might never happen again). Glad to hear that someone agrees with me, though. Thanks! ;)
This is the end of the thread.
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