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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by octopusprime on September 17, 2003, at 0:47:19
kara lynne, you sound a lot better today
good for you
you are making so much progress it's wonderfulno i have not really told my story at all, but i might as well tell it now. i need to face up to it and writing it will make me do it. i'm putting it in a new thread because it doesn't belong in yours.
i moved across the country two years ago after i finished college. i took my best friend and roommate at the time with me. we had made the decision to move together. we shared everything, made husband and wife jokes (he's a gay man, so it wasn't a romantic thing at all)
but the thing was i was depressed, he was depressed, we were both using drugs. we saw no future where we lived and wanted some adventure. we spent the month after we left on a road trip.
we moved in together in an apartment in the new city, and went to look for work. he slept all day and did practically nothing and lucked into a job, where he proceeded to sleep all day some days and not even bother showing up for work. i searched and i searched for work, went on interview after interview, and nothing.
my roommate and friend stopped talking to me, unless i was crying or high. he stopped eating and complained of being cold all the time. he took more and harder drugs, while i started to turn away from drugs altogether. he wouldn't clean the apartment or buy groceries. i spiralled down and down into a depression.
so i'm still unemployed, with no money, when he says he is moving out. we had an agreement that he would stay until i found a job. i freak. i didn't want to find a new place to live when i was out of work and living on borrowed money and time. he told me he *was* being supportive of me, because he didn't tell me to move back home with mom and dad. (note: he wasn't paying my bills either - i borrowed heavily to make my share)
the straw that broke my back was that he didn't trust my judgement. ha! i had stopped doing drugs, gone to counseling, and started a medication regime, and there he was destroying himself. what follows was what happened when i perversely decided to show him some "bad judgement". when he came home that night i don't know what came over me. i was drunk and had taken some medications to try and get to sleep before he came home, but i was so angry they didn't work.
i had instructed him not to let his friend stay at the apartment because i knew i was going to be upset and there was going to be a fight. he ignored that request. he egged me on when i was angry and i finally grabbed him by the throat and threw him to the ground. and held him there. (i am about 6 inches taller and had at least 60 pounds on him.) he started screaming for his friend, at which point i realized what i was doing and let him go. i tossed everybody out of my apartment, went into my room, and started getting violent with myself. i stopped before it was too late. the next day i packed up and stayed with a different friend of mine for the weekend. as it turned out, that friend had a place i could stay and i moved out for good the next weekend.
i was a shell of my former self after that incident. it was the lowest point in my entire life. that friend was everything to me, though in retrospect i see it was him that made my depression worse and fuelled my feelings of hopelessness. i wanted to love him, i wanted him to love himself. i would cook for him but he would never eat. i would invite him out to do things, he would back out at the last minute and sleep. everything was on his terms - where to go, what to do, when to talk. and i wanted him as my friend because i was convinced he was the only true friend i had in the world. but he was only ever there when i was crying, he was never interested in seeing me happy or making me happy.
about three weeks after i moved out i started a new job. and about four months after i moved out i started dating my ex, who dumped me a week ago. somewhere after i started the new job and met my ex i remembered what normal, even happy, felt like. i could sleep again and do things, even though i would still have days where i didn't want to do any work and felt bored, unmotivated, and listless.
i was laid off three months ago, and when i was laid off i was afraid i was going to get depressed like i was before. and then my uncle died two weeks after that. but then i found a new job where i am working now, and have been for a month. and then i got dumped a week ago.
i feel like everything is upside down. i just lost the rock that i had for the ten months when i felt like i was getting stronger every day. and i absolutely loathe and fear the place i was at when i turned violent. and i don't want to go back there, never want to go back there.
and i'm writing to you now because i just broke up with my ex. when i met him, his wife had left him a month earlier. his wife had been seeing another man, and the three of them all worked at the same place. i ignored the big fat warning signs and went ahead with the relationship anyway. we had a good time together, me and my ex. i helped him paint his house. he fixed my car. we watched a lot of movies and cooked dinners together. i met his parents and he met my local family and friends. we had excellent chemistry, said we were in love, and were practically inseparable.
until i started talking about moving in with him, because i was at his house 7 days a week and thought i was wasting money on my apartment. he started to back away. his ex started to get in touch with him. she wouldn't sign the separation papers and wanted to talk about their relationship. he talked about the relationship with her, which always stressed him out and made him not himself.
he seemed tired and distant the last few months we were together. the month i was laid off and my uncle died, he was on vacation by himself for two weeks (which he planned before the layoff), then i went home to see my family for two weeks after my uncle died. i went through those two events without him, and dealt with them myself. he didn't seem overly interested in supporting me through them. then when were together again in town, things were good for the first few weeks but then he started to seem more tired and distant. i thought it was because he was working too much.
the weekend before he broke up with me, he didn't return my phone calls. that was strange. the next day, when i came home from work, there was a letter on my desk. he said in the letter that the relationship wasn't working for him. that it wasn't fair to me. that he wasn't ready for a full-time relationship. that it wasn't anything i did. that he was a coward for doing it by letter. he left behind a pile of my things, and went through my apartment gathering all of his things. he slid the key under the door.
i was devastated! no fights, no discussion, no nothing - it was over just like that. i drove to his house. he had changed the locks and he wasn't home. i called once, i called twice. no answer. i left messages. i poured a bottle of wine and sobbed. i had no friend to call to come over and hold my hand. all my friends across the country were asleep by the time i found the letter. i had nobody. i was all alone.
after a fractured night of sleep, i decided to confront my ex before he left for work. (since he leaves for work at 6:30 am, and i don't work until 10, this tells you how early i was up). i went to his house and asked him if he would change his mind. he said he wouldn't. i told him i was heartbroken. since he wouldn't change his mind, and wouldn't talk it over, i decided that i had to say goodbye. i looked him in the eye and said goodbye, and i told him i never wanted to see him again. and i meant it.
of course, my heart had second thoughts, but i refuse to degrade myself for this man who wouldn't even talk to me about what he thought was wrong in the relationship. he can save the psychodrama for his ex-wife. there will be no more phone calls from me.
but then i thought about it some more. my ex and i, we both came to the relationship from very bad places. we need to find our own good places on our own. we leaned on each other when we were horribly lonesome. we needed to learn to fend for ourselves.
so i am fending for myself. i signed up for hand drumming lessons and i'm going for a dinner date with a male acquaintance of mine. i'm walking the 50 minute walk to and from work. and i'm posting here.
i feel scared, scared that the depression will come back after all of this change i have made and all of this loss i am suffering again. i don't know how to put my naughty little brain away so that it doesn't self destruct in desperation during low times. i'm scared of being alone and getting all weird and lonesome. and i'm sad that things never work out the way i want them to. i will wonder if i will ever have a home and family and children when i don't know what's around the corner tomorrow. i don't know how to plan for my future, especially when it's oh so likely i won't even want to get out of bed.
kara lynne, i don't know why i wrote all this, maybe you'll see that me being strong is a bit of a front. i'm going to fake it until i make it. i have no interest in being depressed now. i've been there and done that. i would rather find ways to move on, and i'm going to try and summon every ounce of courage to make it in my adopted town.
i know this is a place for people that are depressed, but i wonder if anybody out there ever makes it through to the other side. i want to be on the other side so very badly. i'm tired of feeling bad.
Posted by galkeepinon on September 17, 2003, at 1:41:51
In reply to my story (long long long) - kara lynne, posted by octopusprime on September 17, 2003, at 0:47:19
OH MAN, I had to post after seeing this octopusprime. I read your whole post and I appreciate you sharing what you did. I know this post was intended for kara lynne, but not only have you touched her and most likely helped her, you have helped me.
You, my friend, just gave someone (me) a lot of HOPE and I thank you for that.
I just wanted to tell you that I think you are a very strong person. I am so happy to see you be getting on with your life, doing things you need to do, working, and even walking to work! I have been isolating myself for a few months now. I recently moved back to my hometown after what I thought was a failure~which in reality and a lot of self-talk and support, was not. (I'm really tring not to make this post about me)
Anyway, you are where I want to be emotionally. I mean, you are going to work, you are taking up interests, and you are doing. I am talking the talk but not walking the walk.
Thank you for spreading hope around here:-)
**Cheers to the Other Side* :-) :-)
>> kara lynne, i don't know why i wrote all this, maybe you'll see that me being strong is a bit of a front. i'm going to fake it until i make it. i have no interest in being depressed now. i've been there and done that. i would rather find ways to move on, and i'm going to try and summon every ounce of courage to make it in my adopted town.
>
> i know this is a place for people that are depressed, but i wonder if anybody out there ever makes it through to the other side. i want to be on the other side so very badly. i'm tired of feeling bad.
Posted by kara lynne on September 17, 2003, at 1:57:27
In reply to my story (long long long) - kara lynne, posted by octopusprime on September 17, 2003, at 0:47:19
Wow. And may I say, Wow. I have so much I want to say, but I'm pretty tired so I may have to say a lot of it later.
First of all I want to thank you for sharing such a gutwrenching courageous story. Next I want to say that I really hope by now you have been able to forgive yourself. You and he were both on drugs and drink, and living through the distortion of major depression. You have chosen the path of recovery and that is the very best you can do. I'm not sure if you have made a direct amends to him or if that's what you want to do, but you have to make one to yourself (big talker, me, right?!). You don't ever have to go back to that place, and you are doing everything in your power to ensure that you won't.
I have heard a couple of people say now that they're afraid they won't see people getting better on these boards. I don't really know what to say about that--except that maybe in the process of expressing our not-betterness it is still better than not better at all. It tends to be harder for me to go out in the world where 'not better' has to be denied for the most part, or you're expected to (like I think Gabbi said) just wander off into the sunset like a happy little Zoloft bubble on the commercial after a few therapy sessions.
I have such respect that you can go through what you did with your ex and still live to talk about it. That might have made anyone react violently; I think you were tested to the limit. It would have triggered my abandonment into hyperspace. Far better than still live--you handled yourself with more dignity than I could ever imagine. You illustrate exactly how I might respond in my situation--if I were healthy. I'm not sure, there are a few differences in our situation, but in many ways the song remains the same.
Those sick enmeshed relationships with friends can be so muddled up, and so hard to extricate yourself from. I have had some doozies, and not until years later become aware of how sick it really was.
I want to be on the other side too, octo. Last night I felt positively taken over by my naughty little brain (and a few hormones too, I fear). I am so glad you shared your story. Now I see your true strength.
P.S. I wonder what town you're in--what city, state, country...if it's anywhere near mine...
Posted by Susan J on September 17, 2003, at 8:44:48
In reply to my story (long long long) - kara lynne, posted by octopusprime on September 17, 2003, at 0:47:19
I really admire your strength, and insight into yourself, saying your strength seems to be mostly a front. And I *loved* your phrase, you're going to *fake it until you make it.*
That might actually be good advice for *me.* I read once that the Japanese deal with depression by acting like it's not there, like they are happy, and that everything is fine. And eventually, this positive attitude helps them out of it. Having now experienced major depression, I don't know how feasible that is, but perhaps it's a wonderful way to deal with more mild depression. When I'm not majorly depressed, I'm dysthymic.
You sound very strong to me, and your survival of such pain is very admirable. I wish you have no more pain, that days get brighter and better. And I hope you know how grateful *I* am to you for sharing your story. It helps, it really does.
Susan
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 17, 2003, at 11:21:43
In reply to Thank You » octopusprime, posted by Susan J on September 17, 2003, at 8:44:48
Yes yes yes!
"fake it until you make it"
"...the Japanese deal with depression by acting like it's not there, like they are happy, and that everything is fine. And eventually, this positive attitude helps them out of it."
Define reality. the real world. so-called real life. it doesn't matter. everyone's reality is unique. your world is how you perceive it. I'm almost to the "other side". What's different about life? NOTHING. I take AD's now instead of drinking. That helps. and I'm older. That hurts. It's like the "think outside the box" idea. Depression is life inside the box.
I'll stop now. But that's why I love Effexor. On Effexor, my perception of my life changed drasticly. And I love it.
KDi in Texas
> I really admire your strength, and insight into yourself, saying your strength seems to be mostly a front. And I *loved* your phrase, you're going to *fake it until you make it.*
>
> That might actually be good advice for *me.* I read once that the Japanese deal with depression by acting like it's not there, like they are happy, and that everything is fine. And eventually, this positive attitude helps them out of it. Having now experienced major depression, I don't know how feasible that is, but perhaps it's a wonderful way to deal with more mild depression. When I'm not majorly depressed, I'm dysthymic.
>
> You sound very strong to me, and your survival of such pain is very admirable. I wish you have no more pain, that days get brighter and better. And I hope you know how grateful *I* am to you for sharing your story. It helps, it really does.
>
> Susan
Posted by octopusprime on September 18, 2003, at 0:20:20
In reply to my story (long long long) - kara lynne, posted by octopusprime on September 17, 2003, at 0:47:19
thank you ladies (i assume!) for your support and encouragement
re: making amends: no, i will not make amends in person. it has been made clear to me that my presence is no longer welcomed in my former friend's life. that was tough to accept, but so be it. it's better for both of us.
i have forgiven myself for what i have done. i was temporarily psychotic and i did something wrong. i hope it never happens again.
gal - of course you are welcome to talk about yourself and your trouble! the pain of loneliness is tough for all of us. as well as the stain of perceived failure. i think those are two things that depressives share. the difference between us and the rest of humanity is that we're willing to talk about it and to challenge our own assumptions. that's the upside to feeling flawed - we assume our thinking is flawed and subject to change!
kara lynne - i don't know if i am reacting well to the most current breakup because i am numb, or because i have learned how to be dumped, or what. neither of those sounds very good to me, but i do know that working hard is helping. (my job is very challenging and keeping me very busy, and i'm not entrenched enough to risk laziness and failure! i love a steady paycheck and having a comfortable if not extravagant way of life, maybe extended unemployment makes me appreciate it more).
and kara lynne every day you sound so much stronger than the day before. you are growing before us on the boards and it is so inspiring.
ps i live in Beautiful British Columbia. the mountains and trees and ocean are positively awe inspiring. i find that being close to nature is really balancing and good for my spirit.
susan j - in a way i don't want to deal with depression like it's not there. it's there. i know it and i can see it. it manifests itself in my messy apartment and my lazy habits. i hear it talk through me sometimes when i am hopeless and convinced i have no value. i want to work with it. i want to be able to say, "hey depression, maybe today i have time for you, but tomorrow is another day". "hey depression, quit sneaking up on me from behind that corner." "hey depression, can you leave for just one sunny day?"
but maybe that's unrealistic. i don't know. i need to make time for these feelings but i still want to live. i remember how terrible it was when i was really bad. my face lost all colour and my eyes went blank and i looked and felt like the walking dead, i passed through society like a ghost. like i was dead. i felt dead. but i don't want to be dead and alive. i don't want to be alive and alone. etc. bleh.
Posted by galkeepinon on September 18, 2003, at 0:36:45
In reply to ((kara lynne)) ((gal)) ((susan j)) ((kimberly di)), posted by octopusprime on September 18, 2003, at 0:20:20
WAIT!! Do I know you?? I just got done writing an email to my fiend who lives in BC:-) She lives about an hour from the kelowana(sp?) airport!!!
Thank you for writing this to us. For myself, I am blessed to have your support and feedback:-)
Yep I'm a gal LOL hence the nick *galkeepinon*;)Did I miss something? You talked about making amends......I had the exact same thing happen to me last summer:( and I still hurt about it, but it was a family, I have known since I was 16. So many good memories and I grieve over the loss, but think it was meant to be. They changed, I changed, but they treated me like S#@#! and it hurt BAD and it still hurts I just have to MOVE ON! Iknow but HOW????? I can relate to when you say here>>it has been made clear to me that my presence is no longer welcomed in my former friend's life. that was tough to accept, but so be it.<<<<
It was clear to me too. I made amends SEVERAL times but they weren't interested. Weird how you find out who your friends really are!! I take the blame when in reality they caused me some real heartache, I moved to their town on the invitation by the son to rent a place from him, a lot cheaper then where I am now. It all turned to crap. I was accused of things I would NEVER do HONESTLY!!!
I KNOW I was going through a rough time psychotic~I don't think so~just A LOT of anger and hurt. :( so I guess I just have to let it go?????
Any advice would be great from anyone please???So good to hear from you tonight:-)
Posted by fallsfall on September 18, 2003, at 6:46:07
In reply to ((kara lynne)) ((gal)) ((susan j)) ((kimberly di)), posted by octopusprime on September 18, 2003, at 0:20:20
Kara,
I just wanted to make sure that you didn't miss what Octopusprime said to you:
"and kara lynne every day you sound so much stronger than the day before. you are growing before us on the boards and it is so inspiring."
You are going through an incredibly hard time, and you are handling it beautifully.
Posted by kara lynne on September 18, 2003, at 11:53:03
In reply to P.S. Kara Lynne, posted by fallsfall on September 18, 2003, at 6:46:07
I have to peek and look away.
((((falls)))))
((((octo)))))
This is the end of the thread.
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