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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 14 to 38 of 55. Go back in thread:
Posted by partlycloudy on January 23, 2005, at 7:19:57
In reply to My block is FINALLY over BUT . . ., posted by Angel Girl on January 22, 2005, at 11:40:42
First of all, I want to say how much I think you contribute to the Babble boards, and that if you decide to leave permanently, I will truly miss your presence.
I have been adding my 2 cents here for a few dollars' worth now. I have have angst filled days and weeks due to Babble-induced fury and hurt. I too have had to rely on too much xanax at times because of how I allowed Babble to affect me. Anyone here who knows me by now realizes that not only am I non-confrontational, I run away from it. The few times I have become embroiled in exchanges here that led me to be angry, outraged, and determined to leave for what I believed to be my best interests, have not kept me away for very long.
You'll see that I'm still here. The support, friendship and most importantly, the *kinship* I feel with the people here far outweigh the difficult and painful times I've experienced. The group dynamic of Babble is something unusual for me. I'm a solitary, almost anti-social, lonely person IRL, yet I can speak in front of a room full of people with apparent ease. I guess Babble is my equivalent of a room full of people. I feel at ease "speaking" here.I have railed against the policies and practices put in place here when I felt they were unfair or incorrect. There are some - very few - posters here with whom I've chosen not to communicate with, because of how I react when a thread has gone awry. It's my choice: which boards I read and post on, and even which posters I decide to engage in discussions with. I've had to consciously make those decisions in how I use this place for my own good.
You can see from the responses this thread has provoked just how important people view your participation here. None of us want to see you go; none of us want you to experience the anxiety and upset that you have. I thought that for my own good, I would have to leave Babble altogether. In the end, I decided to come back because for me the benefits still outweigh the risks.
I hope that you are able to reach the same conclusion, Angel Girl, because I would dearly miss you from here.
There are other forums similar to Babble out there on the 'net. I explore, try them out, and keep coming back to where I feel most comfortable.
Posted by malthus on January 23, 2005, at 8:29:16
In reply to My block is FINALLY over BUT . . ., posted by Angel Girl on January 22, 2005, at 11:40:42
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 23, 2005, at 10:54:26
In reply to My block is FINALLY over BUT . . ., posted by Angel Girl on January 22, 2005, at 11:40:42
> I felt and still do, that this poster payed extremely little *concern* for my feelings
Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, could you please rephrase that?
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 12:01:14
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Angel Girl, posted by Dr. Bob on January 23, 2005, at 10:54:26
> > I felt and still do, that this poster payed extremely little *concern* for my feelings
>
> Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, could you please rephrase that?
>
> If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
I'm very sorry Dr. Bob. If I knew how, I would but I don't understand the "I statement" enough to do so. I'm sorry that I don't have the intelligence to grasp it. I was stating how *I* feel, not what Lou may or may not feel. Please forgive me. :(AG
Posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 13:28:30
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Dr. Bob, posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 12:01:14
> > > I felt and still do, that this poster payed extremely little *concern* for my feelings
> >
> > Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, could you please rephrase that?
> >
> > If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
> >
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bob
>
>
> I'm very sorry Dr. Bob. If I knew how, I would but I don't understand the "I statement" enough to do so. I'm sorry that I don't have the intelligence to grasp it. I was stating how *I* feel, not what Lou may or may not feel. Please forgive me. :(
>
> AG
>Dr. Bob
I have read the FAQ several times. Could you please be of assistance or perhaps another poster and rephrase my comment for me so that I may hopefully learn alternative ways to make comments that will not lead others to feel put down and offended?
Thank you!
AG
Posted by alexandra_k on January 23, 2005, at 13:49:17
In reply to Re: please rephrase that - PS Dr. Bob, posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 13:28:30
> I felt and still do, that this poster payed extremely little *concern* for my feelings.
I have struggled with the civility rules too. When talking about my response to Lou even :-) All I can say is that it is something that becomes clearer over time - though I admit I still struggle with it a bit at times. I do think that there is a logic there, but one that is hard to make explicit. I do think that there is a benefit to being able to follow the civility rules. I have come to see that some things aren't acceptable that I thought were fine. And I have also come to understand WHY they are not ok.
Ok. My best shot would be:
I think the issue is that tagging 'I feel' on the front of something is often not enough to moderate what goes after. Sometimes it is, but in some instances it is not. This is one of the latter. To say that you felt that the poster showed extremely little concern for your feelings is to say that you didn't accept either (a) that Lou did not intentionally hurt you or (b) that his apology to you was not genuine.
Lou isn't profuse with apologies.
IMO he was genuine and that is the best you (or anyone) will get.
I would like to hear what other people think if anyone else has ideas...
Posted by gardenergirl on January 23, 2005, at 15:46:07
In reply to Re: please rephrase that - PS Dr. Bob » Angel Girl, posted by alexandra_k on January 23, 2005, at 13:49:17
One way I have used to check myself on "I" statements is to try to leave the other person completely out of the statement whenever possible. The idea is to state what you are feeling or thinking and to "own" that without placing the cause or "ownership" onto the other person.
For example, (and please note, I am using these statements for explanatory purposes, not to support or condone the content in any way)... Angel Girl's statement: I felt and still do, that this poster payed extremely little *concern* for my feelings.
reads to me that she is making a statement about Lou's apparent concern or lack of it.
What I think is the part that Angel Girl is feeling (and please correct me if I am wrong) is that she continues to feel hurt by this incident. So, using an "I" statement that places the ownership of the feeling with AG:
"I continue to feel hurt in regards to this incident." or
"I feel overlooked" or
"I am not satisfied" or
"I am angry"I think one of the reasons this is hard is that it is more risky personally, to express feelings as entirely our own. We often feel safer and more secure believing that others may be the "cause" of our feelings, particularly negative ones. But regardless of what may have triggered them, our feelings are our own. Using "I" statements helps to clarify that distinction, and thus, helps to avoid perpetuating hurt feelings back and forth. Because for example, I may argue that I did not do what someone accuses me of or that I had nothing to do with your anger, but I can't argue that you are angry.
Does this help at all?
gg
Posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 16:13:47
In reply to Re: please rephrase that - PS Dr. Bob, posted by gardenergirl on January 23, 2005, at 15:46:07
I understand what you're saying about taking ownership of my feelings and I realize (through therapy) that I *choose* how to react to things. BUT if I was to say that "I continue to feel hurt." and not give the reason why, others will think it is only because of that word still being in the subject line, which it is, but also for another reason that it seems that I am not allowed to state, as it will lead someone to feel hurt and put down. Therefore; the other person's feelings are spared, which I don't have a problem with, but nobody will understand what *exactly* is continuing to upset me.
AG
Posted by gardenergirl on January 23, 2005, at 16:26:18
In reply to Re: please rephrase that - PS Dr. Bob (alexandra) » gardenergirl, posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 16:13:47
Well, I do understand how it might be incomplete the way I wrote it. Although in this case, I think everyone knows how you are feeling, and you are getting tons of support on that.
Perhaps "I continue to feel hurt when I see that word by my name"?
Although I wonder if you may be also wishing to say something along the lines of "you didn't give a flying fig for my feelings?" And if so, perhaps you could say "I feel uncared for [or neglected or overlooked] when I see my name and that word in the same line."
But then again, perhaps I am not quite understanding what is continuing to upset you.
gg
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 23, 2005, at 16:30:38
In reply to Re: please rephrase that - PS Dr. Bob (alexandra) » Angel Girl, posted by gardenergirl on January 23, 2005, at 16:26:18
I feel like you must feel abused to have that word by your name :( Am I correct? It makes me sad....and kinda mad
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 23, 2005, at 17:24:03
In reply to Re: please rephrase that - PS Dr. Bob / AG, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 23, 2005, at 16:30:38
an I statement??? Yes no???? if not sorry I am just trying to help her
> I feel like you must feel abused to have that word by your name :( Am I correct? It makes me sad....and kinda mad
Posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 17:27:25
In reply to Re: please rephrase that - PS Dr. Bob (alexandra) » Angel Girl, posted by gardenergirl on January 23, 2005, at 16:26:18
That is why I need the ability to clarify it. I did mention the reason in my original post here but Dr. Bob ommitted that part in his 'please rephrase that' to me.
Yes, it is certainly the word still being there. I feel very traumatized by that but there is more that it seems I can not clarify or at least know how to rephrase to not cause hurt feelings. Hint: It is not for any action to be taken against any poster, I'm beyond that now, although I certainly was upset about that in the beginning. I'm sorry, I *really* don't know how to phrase things properly here; hence my 2nd reason I stated for the need to leave. Maybe all these drugs have fried my brain to the point that I am no longer able to comprehend things anymore. I don't know, at this point I think I'm just rambling and saying nothing that makes any sense to anybody other than me. :(
AG
> Well, I do understand how it might be incomplete the way I wrote it. Although in this case, I think everyone knows how you are feeling, and you are getting tons of support on that.
>
> Perhaps "I continue to feel hurt when I see that word by my name"?
>
> Although I wonder if you may be also wishing to say something along the lines of "you didn't give a flying fig for my feelings?" And if so, perhaps you could say "I feel uncared for [or neglected or overlooked] when I see my name and that word in the same line."
>
> But then again, perhaps I am not quite understanding what is continuing to upset you.
>
> gg
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 23, 2005, at 17:31:29
In reply to Re: please rephrase that - PS Dr. Bob (alexandra) » gardenergirl, posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 17:27:25
AG I guess just saying to use a word you used...I feel traumatized, I feel this or that Bob, knows what it's about...I mean I can say I feel very freakin' stressed over my dog barking right now...and I feel so mad at hubby...or I am vex or I am confused on SB and so on.
Posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 17:34:29
In reply to Re: please rephrase that - PS Dr. Bob / AG, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 23, 2005, at 16:30:38
> I feel like you must feel abused to have that word by your name :( Am I correct? It makes me sad....and kinda mad
fallen
In all honesty, I do not know how to state how I feel using the PB guidelines without getting into further trouble and/or leading anyone to feel hurt or put down. Thank you for your compassion that you are showing me.
AG
Posted by gardenergirl on January 23, 2005, at 17:48:18
In reply to Re: please rephrase that - PS Dr. Bob / AG » Fallen4MyT, posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 17:34:29
It is difficult and frustrating sometimes.
Take care,
gg
Posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 17:50:28
In reply to Re: please rephrase that - PS Dr. Bob / AG, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 23, 2005, at 16:30:38
I have read all your comments and I understand what you are all saying. I know I will miss PB but as long as that word is by my name, then I will continue to feel extremely hurt and traumatized. If it had been that a poster had called me a moron or stupid or some such other word, I could at some point put it behind me, but NOT for this particular word. Again, I know the poster who put that word there meant no malice towards me. It is the point that it is not removed that continues to hurt and traumatize me. Unless that word is removed, I can not feel any differently. We are not talking about any old word here, it's this particular word that is so *hurtful*. I just can not comprehend why it must remain. He knows my therapist is away on vacation because I told him that in e-mail. She doesn't return for another 3 weeks. This is NOT an act of manipulation by any means. I am not wishing to engage in a power struggle with Dr. Bob. I do know that this is his board and he sets and applies the rules as he sees fit. I just can't understand how a site that is supposed to show support to the users, that the same can not be shown to me by Dr. Bob himself. I'm sorry if that is deemed uncivil. Again, I do NOT know how to properly word things. Since Dr. Bob it seems, has no intention of removing the word, I would like to know the reason he has for this.
However; I do want to thank all of you from the bottom of my heart that have shown love, compassion and support for me. It means more to me than words can say. I LOVE YOU ALL!!!
AG
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 23, 2005, at 17:54:15
In reply to Re: please rephrase that - PS Dr. Bob / AG » Fallen4MyT, posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 17:34:29
Ag....maybe talk about or read about something else for a while and we can wait and see what Dr Bob has to say when he has time ...as to the poll and all???? Love you and HUGE HUGS
> > I feel like you must feel abused to have that word by your name :( Am I correct? It makes me sad....and kinda mad
>
> fallen
>
> In all honesty, I do not know how to state how I feel using the PB guidelines without getting into further trouble and/or leading anyone to feel hurt or put down. Thank you for your compassion that you are showing me.
>
> AG
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 23, 2005, at 17:57:12
In reply to THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR KINDNESS SUPPORT!, posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 17:50:28
AG I would certainly print all this and take it to my T if I were feeling as you do....it may be helpful. Also Dr Bob may surprise you..he is maybe not on site today.....hugs xoxoxoxo
Posted by alexandra_k on January 23, 2005, at 18:16:58
In reply to Re: THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR KINDNESS SUPPORT!, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 23, 2005, at 17:57:12
Wow gg, you are good at this!
Angel Girl, you could Babblemail gg or Dr B with the exact thing that is on your mind and one of them may be able to suggest an alternative rephrase. Perhaps...
Hey, the boards are supposed to be a forum for us to interact with each other. I have to say that I don't really understand why people leave when they have an issue with Dr B. I mean if you avoid admin then you could almost pretend he doesn't even exist.
(No offense Dr B)
I am sorry that you feel hurt, but my experience is that even more hurts happen in the real world. This forum is still comparatively safe.
I understand that you feel that Dr B is letting you down on this one. I don't know what to say about his reasons or whatever there. I guess we can hope that he might share over on admin. Otherwise I have to admit that I am suitably mystified...
Please don't go cause of him.
Don't forget about the rest of us.
Posted by verne on January 23, 2005, at 18:27:48
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Dr. Bob, posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 12:01:14
Angel Girl,
I think Alexandra's post explained where the potential problem lies: "this poster payed extremely little *concern* for my feelings".
It's not about using "babblespeak" correctly, using "I" words, or mastering the civility guidelines but about boundaries. We are fine as long as we talk about "our" stuff but when we talk about the other person's motives we get into "their" stuff.
I think part of this site's civility is giving people the benefit of the doubt. Lou made a mistake, apologized for it, and Dr. Bob put an asterisk in the offending word. Just about everyone recognizes that Lou didn't do anything intentional.
A statement like, "this poster payed extremely little *concern* for my feelings" suggests otherwise.
verne
Posted by TRUCKER on January 23, 2005, at 19:23:57
In reply to My block is FINALLY over BUT . . ., posted by Angel Girl on January 22, 2005, at 11:40:42
angel girl i have missed ya... i thought something was wrong. but i haven't been on babble at all. what was the evil word? i don't understand
trucker
Posted by Atticus on January 23, 2005, at 20:22:33
In reply to THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR KINDNESS SUPPORT!, posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 17:50:28
You and I have sparred a lot during the time I've been on this board, Bob, and the truth is that I've come back after leaving both times because of all these wonderful people and IN SPITE of your administrative decisions. But as angry as I've been, I've got to say, boyo, I have never been so consumed by feelings of disgust for your handling of any situation as this one. Angel Girl could have added so much to this site. Let me ask you a personal question: Don't you look in the mirror after reading all these posts on her behalf and feel at least a little bit ashamed? Or are you beyond that -- just emotionally unreachable? Is letting her slow-roast in pain a kind of game to you? Answer us! Atticus
Posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 23:00:53
In reply to Re: My block is FINALLY over BUT . . ., posted by TRUCKER on January 23, 2005, at 19:23:57
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050116/msgs/446547.html
AG
Posted by smokeymadison on January 23, 2005, at 23:10:32
In reply to IMPORTANT -- EVERYONE PLEASE READ!!!, posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 23:00:53
why don't you just take a breather and a break from psychobabble? just give it some time and see how you feel in a while. i have been extremely hurt by several posts that seemed to be attacking me a couple of years ago. i took a break, and now i am back. i am sorry to hear what you are going through. this place can be such a place of support. but at times, because we all make ourselves vulnerable here, our feelings are going to be hurt. it is inevitable. i hope that you will return sometime. i hope things work out for you!
SM
Posted by justyourlaugh on January 23, 2005, at 23:40:28
In reply to Re: IMPORTANT -- EVERYONE PLEASE READ!!!, posted by smokeymadison on January 23, 2005, at 23:10:32
many many times i walk away..
felt good to leave it all behind,
always remember this board is for the next day..
a day when you need a little understanding,
a lot ,
anything in life has a few (many) difficult patches..
what is good is the "bright glow".
girl..you always glowed!
jyl
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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