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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Phillipa on January 27, 2007, at 21:56:52
In reply to Re: I'm a lot better these days, but why still DSH? » Deneb, posted by tofuemmy on January 27, 2007, at 21:11:42
Emme that's what my Mother did so she was Borderline a pdoc said that once but she died when I was l7 so I'll never know for sure. Love Phillipa
Posted by Deneb on January 27, 2007, at 22:09:03
In reply to Re: I'm a lot better these days, but why still DSH? » tofuemmy, posted by Phillipa on January 27, 2007, at 21:56:52
Thanks for the link about DBT. I don't know if DBT is for me. I don't think I have a severe borderline personality.
I think I'm OK. I'm just desperate about my school situation and I have no direction in life.
I'm worried my pdoc thinks I'm hopeless now. I've seen her so so long yet I'm still doing poorly. I feel better than before, but I still have so many problems!
I definitely feel better now than before, much better. I still have my bad days, but I'm much better now.
It's still not enough. I need to increase my productivity.
Deneb*
Posted by Michael83 on January 28, 2007, at 0:02:56
In reply to Re: I'm a lot better these days, but why still DSH?, posted by Deneb on January 27, 2007, at 22:09:03
Deneb, just focus on what you're going to to, not what you haven't done. Just slow, a step at a time, and eventually you'll get where you want to be. The way you blame yourself is so unfair. You'll be fine. =)
Posted by tofuemmy on January 28, 2007, at 0:05:32
In reply to Re: I'm a lot better these days, but why still DSH? » tofuemmy, posted by Phillipa on January 27, 2007, at 21:56:52
I think you misunderstood. That behavior could, per Linehan, result in a child with BPD.
em
Posted by 10derHeart on January 28, 2007, at 0:06:41
In reply to Re: I'm a lot better these days, but why still DSH?, posted by Kath on January 27, 2007, at 20:03:35
>>Laima posted that link in 'blue' form.
And so did you!
>>I don't know how to copy it so you can click on it.
oh yes you do, 'cause you did! :-)
(fyi...I think the thing is, when writing a post w/a link in it, it doesn't look different *then* - but, as soon as you confirm and post, it shows up correctly... the key is getting the http:// in there, if I recall...)
Don't sell yourself short....and I know you can even chat in any color you want to now, too ;-)
And Deneb, that's a great link. Hope you explore it. Looks to me like if you check the "Contact us" area they have a regional office that might be closer for you. Don't know if the DBT groups are only in Toronto, but it sure wouldn't hurt to find out more info...
I can't remember, have you ever brought up DBT to your T/pdoc? If it's feels weird or uncomfortable, you could bring some posts where others have suggested it, and kind of frame it that way, since I think I recall she's pretty much in favor of the support you get from Babble and Babblers. It's a thought....from me to you.
Posted by madeline on January 28, 2007, at 6:54:41
In reply to I'm a lot better these days, but why still DSH?, posted by Deneb on January 27, 2007, at 17:49:01
I think you need to ask yourself what you really want and what you are prepared to do to get it.
If you want help in dealing with self-harm issues, then DBT is one way develop the skills to deal with it.
DBT is independent of borderline personality disorder - which may or may not even exist in my opinion.
But it's up to you to decide for yourself (obviously).
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 28, 2007, at 8:11:50
In reply to Re: I'm a lot better these days, but why still DSH?, posted by Deneb on January 27, 2007, at 22:09:03
I collected two posts together, and did some editing:
> I don't think there is anything really wrong with me. I think it's all psychological. I don't think there is any med out there that can help me stop harming myself. I'm already better.
Maybe for now?
> I'm so much better these days, but I'm still doing so poorly!
I want you to focus on this apparent contradiction. It is the dialectic you struggle with.
> I think I have a borderline personality disorder. It's all psychological. Only therapy can save me.
That's insightful. Very insightful.
> I don't know if DBT is for me.
I would ask that you take another look at it. DBT is not just for borderline personality disorder, although it was first used there. It is a technique. A tool. It is used for behaviour modification in a number of psychologically distressing mental health issues.
I snipped (and slightly edited) the following from a descriptive website, employing the DBT technique for an entirely different diagnosis than the one you are worried about. See if these *ideas* aren't what you seek.
"DBT assumes that self-destructive behaviors are maladaptive attempts to avoid or diminish intolerable negative emotions. The focus of DBT is to teach these patients to face, reduce, eliminate, and/or tolerate their painful emotions. The four components of DBT are:
1. Mindfulness training (becoming aware of emotions).
2. Emotional regulation (reducing or eliminating negative emotions).
3. Distress tolerance (learning to tolerate painful emotions).
4. Interpersonal effectiveness (interpersonal skills training).
Patients use “diary cards” to record emotional experiences, behaviors, and the DBT skills they practice. Patients also complete “Behavioral chain analysis” forms where they record sequences of situations, internal reactions, and maladaptive behaviors. Each week, patients discuss this information in the first hour of their group session. In the second hour, patients learn and practice new skills. Each patient also has one individual therapy session per week.
Here are some DBT techniques described by Wiser and Telch:1. Mindfulness training: Learning to fully experience thoughts, emotions, and action urges without attempting to suppress them or judge them, and without experiencing secondary emotions such as guilt or shame.
2. Identifying the antecedents and consequences of emotions.
3. Becoming aware of the bodily responses that accompany negative emotions.
4. Understanding the relationship between cognitions and emotions, and modifying cognitions that evoke negative emotions.
5. Learning adaptive methods of coping with negative emotions: relaxing, taking walks, socializing, taking a warm bath, listening to soothing music.
6. Getting adequate sleep and reducing excessive exercise and the use of drugs and alcohol.
7. Reducing negative emotions, for example by facing rather than avoiding feared situations, and by revealing rather than hiding feelings of shame.
Alert readers may have noticed a conflict between technique #1, experiencing emotions, and technique #7, reducing negative emotions. This conflict is the primary dialectic, from which DBT derives its name."
Lar
Posted by laima on January 28, 2007, at 9:00:21
In reply to Re: I'm a lot better these days, but why still DSH?, posted by Deneb on January 27, 2007, at 22:09:03
DBT is also for people with depression and anxiety.
> Thanks for the link about DBT. I don't know if DBT is for me. I don't think I have a severe borderline personality.
>
> I think I'm OK. I'm just desperate about my school situation and I have no direction in life.
>
> I'm worried my pdoc thinks I'm hopeless now. I've seen her so so long yet I'm still doing poorly. I feel better than before, but I still have so many problems!
>
> I definitely feel better now than before, much better. I still have my bad days, but I'm much better now.
>
> It's still not enough. I need to increase my productivity.
>
> Deneb*
>
>
Posted by cubic_me on January 28, 2007, at 12:00:19
In reply to Re: I'm a lot better these days, but why still DSH?, posted by laima on January 28, 2007, at 9:00:21
As part of some work experience I sat in on some DBT sessions (with full consent of the clients). It was for people with eating disorders, not borderline people, but focused on lots of things in their lives, not just their eating.
DBT was origionally applied to people with borderline personality disorder, but since then people have found it really effective with people with lots of other dificulties.
Deneb, therapy isn't something magic that will 'fix' you, you've got to put in a lot of work. You've got to be willing to change and willing to let people help you, but there's definately help and hope out there for you if you look hard enough.
Posted by Kath on January 28, 2007, at 13:21:38
In reply to Re: I'm a lot better these days, but why still DSH, posted by 10derHeart on January 28, 2007, at 0:06:41
Hi T,
Thanks!! - you're right - it did turn out as a clickable-on link address!!! Yay.
And yes - I CAN chat in colour now!! I tried it. Now it's just a matter of being on here when there are people on Chat! LOL
Hugs, Kath
Posted by Kath on January 28, 2007, at 13:29:17
In reply to Re: I'm a lot better these days, but why still DSH? » Deneb, posted by Larry Hoover on January 28, 2007, at 8:11:50
Larry - thanks so much for this information.
I think this could really help me. I've asked in another thread if you think this type of therapy would be offered from an OHIP-covered source.
Sometimes when I feel overwhelmed by worry or upset feelings, I feel like my whole body is sort of aching/feeling trapped/needing to writhe! I hate being so strongly affected by 'negative' or uncomfortable emotional feelings!
Kath
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 28, 2007, at 13:52:14
In reply to Re: I'm a lot better these days, but why still DSH? » Larry Hoover, posted by Kath on January 28, 2007, at 13:29:17
> Larry - thanks so much for this information.
>
> I think this could really help me. I've asked in another thread if you think this type of therapy would be offered from an OHIP-covered source.I believe it can be. Just stay away from psychologists in private practise. You may possibly need an official diagnosis, too.
> Sometimes when I feel overwhelmed by worry or upset feelings, I feel like my whole body is sort of aching/feeling trapped/needing to writhe! I hate being so strongly affected by 'negative' or uncomfortable emotional feelings!
>
> KathI'm sorry, Kath. I didn't realize that.
Upon looking at DBT, I realize that I am doing something very similar already, to learn how to cope with my chronic pain. I can whole-heartedly offer my endorsement.
Lar
Posted by Phillipa on January 28, 2007, at 17:48:51
In reply to Re: I'm a lot better these days, but why still DSH? » Phillipa, posted by tofuemmy on January 28, 2007, at 0:05:32
Emme I did so does that make me borderline? Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on January 28, 2007, at 17:54:50
In reply to Re: I'm a lot better these days, but why still DSH? » Deneb, posted by madeline on January 28, 2007, at 6:54:41
Maddie will BPD be removed from the axis II in the DSM? Isn't a new one due to be released? Love Phillipa
Posted by sunnydays on January 28, 2007, at 18:54:35
In reply to Re: I'm a lot better these days, but why still DSH? » tofuemmy, posted by Phillipa on January 28, 2007, at 17:48:51
No, it's just a risk factor for borderline. You still have to meet the DSM criteria for the disorder to have it.
sunnydays
Posted by Phillipa on January 28, 2007, at 19:20:30
In reply to Re: I'm a lot better these days, but why still DSH? » Phillipa, posted by sunnydays on January 28, 2007, at 18:54:35
Thanks sunndays as I don't meet the criteria for it. Love Phillipa such helpful people here.
Posted by Kath on January 28, 2007, at 19:22:50
In reply to Re: I'm a lot better these days, but why still DSH? » Kath, posted by Larry Hoover on January 28, 2007, at 13:52:14
Thanks Larry,
I admire you & Nikki & anyone else who has chronic pain. I am so very fortunate not to have physical pain. I'm so sorry that you & Nikki do & anyone else too.
Kath
Posted by Deneb on January 29, 2007, at 11:17:55
In reply to Re: I'm a lot better these days, but why still DSH?, posted by Deneb on January 27, 2007, at 18:24:04
> Do I have a borderline personality disorder? Is it a mental illness? Is it serious?
>
> Opinions?
>
> Am I just a bad and lazy person? What's wrong with me?
>
> Deneb*I definitely have a borderline personality disorder. My pdoc encouraged me to read books on borderline personality disorder.
Is it serious? Is considered a "mental illness"? or is it a psychological disorder? Or is there no difference between the two?
Should I be treated by a psychologist or a psychiatrist?
Deneb*
Posted by sunnydays on January 29, 2007, at 11:26:34
In reply to I have a BPD, posted by Deneb on January 29, 2007, at 11:17:55
> > Do I have a borderline personality disorder? Is it a mental illness? Is it serious?
**** I think it is considered a mental illness. But that means that it's not your fault, Deneb. Just as depression is an illness, and diabetes is an illness, and heart disease is an illness, I think it can also be considered an illness. You learn to manage it like any other illness.
or is it a psychological disorder? Or is there no difference between the two?
**** I don't think there's a difference between the two in the way they are commonly used. But again, having a mental illness doesn't reflect anything about you as a person.
>
> Should I be treated by a psychologist or a psychiatrist?
>
> Deneb***** I think ideally both, but either/or could very well be adequate. Also, in the US there are social workers and other types of therapists that can help too, they don't have to have a Ph.D. It's up to you to find treatment that you feel works for you.
(((((Deneb))))
sunnydays
Posted by Dinah on January 29, 2007, at 11:45:41
In reply to I have a BPD, posted by Deneb on January 29, 2007, at 11:17:55
Deneb, you're the same person you were yesterday. A diagnosis is just a name that helps clinicians understand how to help you best (ideally).
Talk to your pdoc about treatment, but since you've responded to medications, and since therapy is usually recommended for BPD, I'd imagine she'll tell you a combination is best.
DBT teaches valuable skills, and you might want to look up Marsha Linehan on Amazon or google her.
It's not so bad, Deneb, although there are some negative stigmas in the minds of some clinicians, unfortunately. Don't let that get you down. Just choose clinicians that are more empathetic and better educated. You wouldn't want the clinicians who judge people by a label anyway, would you?
Linehan sees BPD as a cluster of characteristic coping styles that people use to cope with emotional lability and a slow return to baseline (inability to regulate one's emotions). DBT is designed to help with that. I've never been diagnosed with BPD, but I have a fair number of traits. In fact some clinicians would have thrown me in that diagnosis just because I self injure. But emotional lability and slow return to baseline *definitely* describes me. What's helpful for me is a combination of meds and therapy. I wouldn't want to do without either.
Don't think of this as a bad thing, Deneb. Think of it as a way to conceptualize your difficulties and pain, and a starting point to learning to deal with them.
Posted by one woman cine on January 29, 2007, at 11:48:09
In reply to I have a BPD, posted by Deneb on January 29, 2007, at 11:17:55
Isn't this on psychology?
Can be there 2 threads on the same subject? I'm just wondering if this should be re-directed -
Posted by Deneb on January 29, 2007, at 15:35:59
In reply to Re: I have a BPD » Deneb, posted by Dinah on January 29, 2007, at 11:45:41
My pdoc told me I had a BPD a while ago. I thought I outgrew it, but I haven't. I still have it. I'm not upset about having it because I already knew I had it for a long time.
Deneb*
Posted by Kath on January 29, 2007, at 19:34:19
In reply to Re: I have a BPD » Deneb, posted by Dinah on January 29, 2007, at 11:45:41
What's 'lability' mean?
K
Posted by Phillipa on January 29, 2007, at 21:31:10
In reply to Re: I have a BPD » Dinah, posted by Kath on January 29, 2007, at 19:34:19
Kath I think moods change rapidly. Love Phillipa
Posted by laima on January 31, 2007, at 7:57:56
In reply to Re: I have a BPD, posted by Deneb on January 29, 2007, at 15:35:59
I agree with the people who have written here that a label like 'borderline...' doesn't mean much, if anything at all, about you as a person. A lot of psychiatric labels are most useful for quickly describing symptom clusters for doctors, and especially for insurance companies. A lot of experts are questioning the usefulness of such labels at all- and a lot of experts will assign a different label to the very same patient because they will group the very same symptoms into different clusters! There was a story in the New York Times about just that late last fall. I wouldn't dwell too much on it if I were you.
Deneb, a good therapy program, like DBT, can still help solidify your improvements. You can think of it as mentorship, if that is a nicer way to think of it. In the group section, you can share your successes with others in the group, inspire them, celebrate what you've accomplished. In your private sessions, you can identify if there are any shadowy areas that you'd still like to work on. I know you've recently written about thinking occcasionally about hurting yourself. I hope you can move away from that, for your own peace of mind. That one day, such thoughts are distant, distant fuzzy memories. It sounds like things are moving along for you, you are making choices, like about school, and I trust you are considering the positive and constructive aspects of what is changing. I hope that continues to be true. Please continue framing what happens for you in positive ways- that's helped me personally tons. Ie, not "I almost flunked my classes", but, "I am reconsidering what I want out of my academic career, and am taking a breather so I can sort it out. I dropped the classes which weren't right for me and my concerns, so that I can use the time and energy to focus better on working out what I want in the greater picture." Yay Deneb! I hope you see the kind concern of your mom regarding the lion blanket, and can see some compassionate humour in it. If you wrote a book, that could be a funny little chapter. I hope you continue to feel better, and think of your better moments when your mood isn't up to snuff.
Something I like out of DBT is the notion of "self-soothing"- finding ways to soothe yourself in healthy ways when things aren't feeling so well- bubble bath, walk in nature- whatever makes you feel nicer. Mine include excersise with peppy music, bath with nice smelly stuff, guormet hot chocolate, walk to favorite lunch spot for a treat, movie at the theater. Develop an "arsenal" of helpful self-soothing methods that you can dip in to when needed. Distraction rather than dwelling, and doing opposite to how one feels sometimes. Ie- feel like curling up in bed in middle of day? Force a walk outside. Mood usually follows.
> My pdoc told me I had a BPD a while ago. I thought I outgrew it, but I haven't. I still have it. I'm not upset about having it because I already knew I had it for a long time.
>
> Deneb*
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