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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by floatingbridge on November 19, 2011, at 19:03:23
Please be forewarned. This is about Catholics and Protestants and biscuits and contains an occasional profanity.
Dylan Moran
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2mVOw3A7t8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Posted by sigismund on November 19, 2011, at 19:54:47
In reply to The biscuits or the shame, posted by floatingbridge on November 19, 2011, at 19:03:23
Around the time of Abu Ghraib various commentators suggested that ours was a culture of guilt, whereas Arabs had a culture of shame, hence the nature of the humiliations as policy.
I have never been very clear on the difference.
But a bit of a soft spot for Catholicism, I don't know why, it's not as if it deserves it particularly. Probably Oscar Wilde and Graham Greene.
Posted by floatingbridge on November 19, 2011, at 23:02:03
In reply to Re: The biscuits or the shame » floatingbridge, posted by sigismund on November 19, 2011, at 19:54:47
Frank McCourt, "Angela's Ashes" is another reason. And within, opposing reasons. I like to cheer for the underdog.
The difference between guilt and shame. I feel a trip to the dictionary approaching.
Posted by Dinah on November 20, 2011, at 9:41:42
In reply to Re: The biscuits or the shame » floatingbridge, posted by sigismund on November 19, 2011, at 19:54:47
New Orleans Catholicism must be different.
I was part Catholic - well, obviously that can't be true. I attended Catholic church till my early teens, and this being New Orleans most of my acquaintance is Catholic.
The whole Catholic shame thing is nothing I've ever noticed. I always thought the enormous tolerance here came from our Catholic rather than Bible Belt culture.
Posted by floatingbridge on November 20, 2011, at 9:54:19
In reply to Re: The biscuits or the shame, posted by Dinah on November 20, 2011, at 9:41:42
The part Catholic put a smile on my face. Why not?
The comedian is Irish. That must be very different. For some. No sweeping generalizations from me.
Tolerance I would say yes, very. And also good works, not that Catholics have a monopoly on that, though.
In my experience, Catholics *in general* don't balk when the going gets a little gritty.
Posted by Dinah on November 20, 2011, at 10:06:23
In reply to Re: The biscuits or the shame » Dinah, posted by floatingbridge on November 20, 2011, at 9:54:19
Catholic culture here seems more happy than not. St Joseph's day altars (and St. Josephs' day cookies - Mmmmmm.....). Mardi Gras (and king cakes - Mmmmmmmm.....). It's true that most foreheads bear ash on Ash Wednesday, and people take that in the serious mood it is intended. Although I've always suspected that *some* of the subdued expression comes from the day after effects of Mardi Gras.
The idea of confession really appeals to me, too. I was once upset with myself and my therapist kept telling me why I shouldn't blame myself. I told him I didn't need that, I needed absolution! And it does seem to me that my friends who can go to confession bear less shame than my friends who don't. Not that I ever went willingly as a child. Not a child's notion I think.
So it must be very different elsewhere. New Orleans Catholics, even the most Catholic of them, seem very merry. And not averse to a healthy amount of harmless sin.
Posted by floatingbridge on November 20, 2011, at 11:15:20
In reply to Re: The biscuits or the shame, posted by Dinah on November 20, 2011, at 10:06:23
Yeah, Long Island Catholics did not seem particularly merry. My household of origin did not know the word merry, which is too bad because I think I have a great untapped talent for being merry.
A nice, dizzy Mardi Gras sounds wonderful. And I don't think confession is best for children unless there would be one specially fitted to their needs. We used to make stuff up. As preoccupied and guilt-ridden as I was with everything I did or did not do (that I think is guilt--it includes what one does not do) my mind would go snow-pure blank confronted with a confessional. Confesssion became mechanical. Just awful. More guilt heaped upon guilt. Or shame. The shame of failing confession. Of lying at confession but not meaning to, rather being compelled to, I imagine much like those biscuits, here I am, going blank, I am going blank, and now I am making things up even though I have truly done bad things and need confession more than ever, I am lying to the priest and I am burning with shame, and this priest knows I am lying, and so on. It is really quite like that fellow and the biscuits except there is no pleaseure in it. What a waste.
Being merry is a much better use of time :)
Posted by Dinah on November 20, 2011, at 19:19:49
In reply to Re: The biscuits or the shame » Dinah, posted by floatingbridge on November 20, 2011, at 11:15:20
I lied too!! Once a week is just too often for an average child to have something memorable to confess.
Well, maybe not lied. I trotted out "I was mean to my brother" or "I was disrespectful to my parents" because I was pretty sure something I did during the week would fit, even if I couldn't recall any specific incidences. This would be accepted as adequate, I'd get my standard penance, and feel only vaguely guilty that I knew I wasn't going to stop doing any of those things.
But just vaguely. Because confession oughtn't be something you are forced to do. It needs to come from the heart. Which wasn't the fault of the Catholic church. It was a flawed school policy. Had I confessed when I was truly ready to confess I think it would have meant something. (Plus, I never really considered myself Catholic in my heart.)
Posted by floatingbridge on November 21, 2011, at 17:52:28
In reply to Re: The biscuits or the shame » floatingbridge, posted by Dinah on November 20, 2011, at 19:19:49
I felt horribly guilty. Too bad, eh?
We haven't habitually forced confessions nor apologies from our son for a similar reason. They aren't very useful to anyone if not from the heart somehow or from the moral center trying to work through feelings still wrestling with the urge to push someone. Or grab the/their/my stick.
Was it school policy? Oh, so you needed to confess as a Catholic school student. Well it was church doctrine for us. First communion around 8. Confirmation, maybe 12-14. I forget. Prior to communion as you know comes confession.
So you really were only part Catholic :-)
This is the end of the thread.
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