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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 4 of 4. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Chris M on October 3, 2003, at 17:11:42
Today is day five of what I consider (maybe hope) to be nothing short of a miracle. Because I work for myself and am home enough to assist in his care, my grandfather recently came to stay with me. Four days ago, he stopped me in the kitchen and handed me a bottle of medicine and told me to take three capsules three times a day the first day and then take one capsule three times a day afterward. To make a long story short, he understood that I had been experiencing neck and shoulder pain from working at the computer for extended periods of time. I had, but no more than normal. The thing is, I am bipolar with fairly severe social anxiety, and have been taking (I had never explained this or said anything about it to my grandfather) Klonopin and Lexapro, Klonopin for the past 5 years and Lexapro for the last 9 months (I began the Lexapro when I started to care for my best friend who was dying and passed this March). I have read a lot of the postings and the medical information about both Lexapro and Klonopin and it was my expectation that I was going to face the most dreadful months of my life as I tapered one or both of these medications. I should also mention that, on average, I had been consuming 4-6 beers or 2-3 glasses of wine each night before bed, just to go to sleep. I hope the picture is starting to become as clear as it has become to me...I have been dependent on three very strong substances, one controlled, for quite a long time. That being said, I would like to add that I am not posting this message so that everyone will think that I 'saw the light' and was miraculously cured by this medicine, but the day I started Neurontin, almost without thinking about it, I skipped my evening dosage of Klonopin (I had been taking 3mg three times a day!). As some of you may know, this would normally have caused a rough night's sleep and a really rough morning. As it turned out, I awoke at 5:30, rested and relaxed, started the water for my tea and went to the medicine cabinet. I sometimes skip a day on the Lexapro because, despite what I was told, there are side effects, both with libido and with sleep. This particular morning, since I was having such luck with the Neurotnin, I decided that it would be an 'off day' and I let it go at that. I took 1mg of Klonopin, the two Neurontin, and off I went with my day. Again, no noticeable reaction as the day progressed, and to top it off, I went to Wal-Mart and did all of my shopping without calling a friend or family member to go with me. I had a nice chat with the cashier, and headed home. For those of you with social anxiety, I know you realize the significance of this experience...to feel comfortable in my own skin in a large place with tons of people around, to unconsiously have a 'chat' with someone and not feel awkward...even carry on a conversation without stumbling or stuttering, having them avert their eyes. I was thrilled! Ok, back to Earth. Day three, after taking the dog to the park instead of letting him out in the back yard, I popped into the grocery store, then made a surprise visit to my 3-year-old niece's house to read "Curious George" with her, and returned home for a relaxing day of work. Yesterday, I took 1/2mg of Klonopin in the morning, no Lexapro, two 300mg caps of Neurontin every 8 (3x), and I took a little break to take my boat (that had been in storage for almost a year) to the lake with my father and rent a slip so I can once again entertain guests. My parents then came over for dinner and a DVD, and my mother, a nurse, (and, recently, not one of my favorite people), grabbed me by the face and, with tears in her eyes said, "Honey, it's so nice to have you back". I buried my face against her shoulder and said, "I love you Mama". In the background I could hear my father almost wisper..."I don't remember the last time you called her mama". We had a delightful evening, without arguing, just enjoying the company of people we love. It was spectacular...to feel again. So...last night was a little rough. My sleep was a little disrupted and my neck is a little stiff this morning. I am leaving that to the Klonopin 'day five thru seven' where I technically should be having terrible withdrawal symptoms, including seizures, and the familiar Lexapro symptoms that start with electrical shocks and a 'pressure cooker' behind my eyes. With that being said, I must admit that I felt a couple of tiny shocks while working out this morning at 5:30, my eyes are a bit more tired that normal as I type this, and my neck is a little stiff this afternoon, but that is all. Last night, I found myself at the refrigerator with the door open to get a glass of wine because it was dinner time, and have a couple of times the past few days, but each time saying to myself, "nah, it really doesn't sound that good" and grabbing a water or diet soda. I am not posting this to promote going cold turkey with ANY medication they are taking. On the contrary, I am desperately seeking feedback from anyone with similar experience. Did I read that Neurontin is used to taper Klonopin and other easily abused substances and manage to 'psych' myself into doing this because I was starting a downward spiral? Is this drug really capable of not only managing my withdrawal symptoms, but also of averting or minimizing the seizures that I should technically be having? Is it possible that I will be able to feel human again and react in a connected, civilized way to both positive and negative stimuli? I pray that it does and that it can, because today I feel good, and it has been a long time! Thanks for listening...I honestly believe that the first thing is that we do not feel alone. I will post if anything changes, good or bad. Chris M.
Posted by madge on October 4, 2003, at 16:04:55
In reply to Neurontin and Triple-Substance...Is this for real?, posted by Chris M on October 3, 2003, at 17:11:42
Good luck on the Neurontin. I was on Klonopin 1-1.5mg a day for 8months. I wanted to go off the Klonopin, not because it wasn't effective for my anxiety, but it was dehydrating me and I was continuously getting UTI's. My Pdoc suggested Neurontin as a way of tapering off the Klonopin and going onto something else that wouldn't be anticholinergic. He said that most people tolerate the Neurontin with very few side effects. It too is an anti siezure med. Initially, he started me on 100mg 1x-2x daily. It did help me sleep, however, I experienced horrible side effects including nausea, slurred speach, dizzyness. I went off it and tried again a week later with Ambien. We tried it at 50 mg 2x day. I still had the same side effects, only milder, during the day and so I went off it again after two days. I became a total insomniac from the withdrawl of the Klonopin. The Ambien didn't work anymore, and was only contributing to drying out my entire body. We decided I should try the Neurontin only at night to see if I could tolerate it. I did for two days, and then I didn't sleep and felt worse than I had ever felt in my life. I just can't tolerate the Neurontin. I am now off the Klonopin, but am still experiencing withdrawl symptoms. If you can tolerate the Neurontin, it seems like it would be a good alternative and will help you go through discontinuing the use of Klonopin. It just didn't work for me at all. withdrawing from Klonopin has been the worst nightmare of my life. I have never felt side effects like this before. I have basically been a disabled person for a month because I can't sleep, and have been on drugs that have only made things worse. I wish you the very best. Let me know how it goes. Meanwhile, I would really like to hear from those who have gone off Klonopin and how they are doing.
Madge
Posted by Chris M on October 5, 2003, at 23:34:18
In reply to Re: Neurontin as substitute for Klonopin, posted by madge on October 4, 2003, at 16:04:55
It sounds like Neurontin doesn't suit you very well! I have to admit that there have been a few times that I have had the shocks or felt a little dizzy the past few days, and I sort of have this, how can I explain this, surreal feeling that the withdrawal feelings are there somehow. It's almost as if I can feel the Nerontin covering them up. Granted, this could all be in my head, but I haven't had any Klonopin for four days now. I don't know if I am having adverse reaction to the Neurontin or if the fact that my system is in shock because I have removed the substances I was hooked on. I also feel a little fatigued and a little like I am coming down with a cold...not sure, but willing to find out at this point. I am sorry to hear about your experience with Klonopin...I swear, if I had know the risks when the doctor prescribed it, I would never have taken them...it's too painful. After my friend died, I lost control and I inadvertently let the dosage creep to 5mg per day. Turned out to be on a Friday night that I ran out, and I was more than 48 hours without Klonopin...I thought I would die. My teeth hurt, I felt like my nerves were on fire, I thought my eyeballs were going to burst from the pressure, and I started to have muscle movements, like jerks when you are half asleep, only it would be a hand or arm or something...it was the worst experience I have ever had, so I can sympathize. You won a battle that some people will never understand, and you should be proud that you did. It helps to hear from someone on the other side! Thanks. Chris M.
Posted by platinumbride on October 10, 2003, at 11:07:24
In reply to Re: Neurontin as substitute for Klonopin, posted by Chris M on October 5, 2003, at 23:34:18
People who have read any other postings of mine are probably sick of me cheerleading for neurontin.
I do have to admit that i often abuse it because it makes me feel really good....mellow and free of the ridiculous pressure I have been putting on myself my entire life. (the pressure that has put me in this position to begin with....can anyone relate? Retaliation of some kind for all of the personal forcing to "achieve")
Anyway, I got off of lexapro, I would give up lamictal with no problem, I can take or leave klonopin (well, I like to have it for "emergencies", but it really is not essential) but I don't think I ever want to give up neurontin. I know a day will come when I don't abuse it as an addict, and I know that even at the prescribed dose, it is really the only thing I can truly say makes a difference.
My two cents....
Diane
This is the end of the thread.
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