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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 20 to 44 of 52. Go back in thread:
Posted by Caper on May 6, 2004, at 18:42:48
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by Sophie33 on May 6, 2004, at 4:21:49
Hi Sophie
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I'm glad to hear your "home detox" was a success, but I'm afraid my little "habit" is maybe a bit more severe and that scares me. At my worst I was consuming about 4 to 6 bottles of wine a day, then I had the bright idea (sarcasm intended) of switching to vodka (at least a liter a day-- more bang for the buck and easier to conceal from my family and didn't make me gain weight.) Now I'm back on wine (because vodka was tearing up my throat and stomach-- once i went two weeks with nothing but vodka- had to drink in the bathroom because I threw up about half of it each time, but i still NEEDED it-- it's so sick! I truly think alcohol is the devil's invention!) Wine now is about 4 bottles a day- I literally cannot go without it for more than a few hours and have not had a normal night's sleep in ages!
Anyway, I think I shall take your advice (but maybe with slightly increased valium dosages!)
From previous detoxes (sadly, yes, i've had them) I agree with you about the mental symptoms being worst 3 or 4 days into it. Paranoia, hostility etc.
Thanks so much for responding: it means a lot to know I'm not the only one! Hope you're doing well, and if you ever need to talk, I'm here and also at Caper@playful.com
take care.
Caper
> Hi, Caper:
>
> I did the same as you-the valium to get through the home detox. And like you-I did it on my own-even my own husband wasn't aware that I had been secretly drinking (a bottle of wine a night!)
>
> I'm also 31-female-and had absolutely enough of the secret drinking. I was becoming hostile, aggressive etc. Finally decided that enough was enough and went to see my GP and told him that I wanted valium so I could detox myself. He was VERY supportive-and gave me the meds no problem. Although I did have a check up first.
>
> The dosage: Well, this depends on how severe your withdrawl symptoms are-I had a bottle of wine a night habit and I took a 5mg three times a day. Morning-afternoon and night. This worked well for me. I also didn't need the valium until day 3 of being alcohol free-I think that's when the syptoms got the worst of me-very edgey, anxious etc. Only needed the valium for 2 weeks.
>
> Hope this helps-please let me know how you're doing.
>
> Sophie
Posted by Sophie33 on May 7, 2004, at 2:26:53
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by Caper on May 6, 2004, at 18:42:48
Hi, Caper:
Yes, you will definitely need to "up" the dosage-I was lucky because I never drank in the daytime-it was a purely late afternoon and early night habit. But I can assure you that the wine came later in the evening, but before that I'd have 3/4/5/ beers to relax.
And no one noticed! I mean, it could feel my personality change-but no one caught on! You also mentioned that you hid your habit from your family-how did you do that? It seems that you were drinking all the time-
Please write back or send me an email to lolitauk@hotmail.com
GOOD LUCK
SOPHIE
Posted by Caper on May 7, 2004, at 9:25:09
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by Sophie33 on May 7, 2004, at 2:26:53
Sophie I e-mailed you. Thanks so much for the support and if you need some too I'll do my best! Bye for now.
Caper
Posted by Alara2 on May 8, 2004, at 1:25:50
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by Sophie33 on May 6, 2004, at 4:21:49
> Hi, Caper:
>
> I did the same as you-the valium to get through the home detox. And like you-I did it on my own-even my own husband wasn't aware that I had been secretly drinking (a bottle of wine a night!)
>
> I'm also 31-female-and had absolutely enough of the secret drinking. I was becoming hostile, aggressive etc. Finally decided that enough was enough and went to see my GP and told him that I wanted valium so I could detox myself. He was VERY supportive-and gave me the meds no problem. Although I did have a check up first.
>
> The dosage: Well, this depends on how severe your withdrawl symptoms are-I had a bottle of wine a night habit and I took a 5mg three times a day. Morning-afternoon and night. This worked well for me. I also didn't need the valium until day 3 of being alcohol free-I think that's when the syptoms got the worst of me-very edgey, anxious etc. Only needed the valium for 2 weeks.
>
> Hope this helps-please let me know how you're doing.
>
> Sophie
Hi Sophie,I have been wondering about how you got on since your last post. It sounds as though you've done wonderfully! Great stuff. :)
Sophie, did you develop any tolerance and/or dependence towards Valium over the two-week period. I'm ashamed to say that I've stayed a bit lost in my drinking after writing my original post and really think that a short-term benzo script may be the answer. (Can't leave my gorgeous cat in order to detox as an in-patient!)
I'm just a little weary about getting hooked on benzos during a two-week period as I have had minor issues with Xanax and Valium in the past.
Glad you are doing so well. Maybe some of your motivation and resolve will rub off on me. :)
Thanks for the update!
Alara
Posted by Fred23 on May 8, 2004, at 22:54:50
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own » Sophie33, posted by Alara2 on May 8, 2004, at 1:25:50
> really think that a short-term benzo script may be the answer.
> I'm just a little weary about getting hooked on benzos during a two-week period as I have had minor issues with Xanax and Valium in the past.
What about the view expressed by "Elizabeth" in http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010605/msgs/65815.html:
"Alcohol is a lame and toxic substitute for benzos -- if you have adequate doses of benzos, you don't *need* to drink."
The idea I've suggested here in different threads if that one has the alcoholic by genetic over-excited brain due to GABA mis-regulation, then wouldn't an ongoing benzo prescription be just the thing to offset the activity back to "normal"?
Posted by Sophie33 on May 9, 2004, at 6:13:55
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own » Sophie33, posted by Alara2 on May 8, 2004, at 1:25:50
Hi, Alara!
So great to hear from you! Regarding the valium. Well, I am sad to say that I started drinking after 2 weeks of non-and what a mistake! I thought that I was doing so welk-one glass of wine wouldn't hurt... I should have known better-I've been down that road before. Anyway, after lots of self-loathing about how pathetic I was to start up again, I went to my GP and told him that I wanted something to help reduce the stress and anxiety that alcohol withdrawl so often provides us.
He was really supportive and prescribed the lowest dosage of the valium-2mg. and suggested I take them 3 times a day. (morn, noon and night) And it REALLY helped calm those symptoms of anxiety down! Day 4/5 seemed to be the hardest for me and this is where the valium helped the most.
So, it's been a coupla' weeks for me and I'm back to feeling good about myself again-and I'm going to try to make it work this time.
I was happy to see your post-I was wondering as to how you were doing. HOW ARE YOU DOING BY THE WAY? Please let me know.
All the best
Sophie
Posted by Caper on May 14, 2004, at 7:06:13
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own » Sophie33, posted by Alara2 on May 8, 2004, at 1:25:50
Hi Alara,
I just wanted to say that in-patient detoxes can be fairly short, as little as three days, although I think about 5 or 6 days is better because the detox symptoms can come back _hard_ and suddenly at about day 3 or 4.
I think if you've never tried in-patient detox before, it might be really helpful. Your cat will forgive you for your being gone as long as it's fed, trust me, mine did and I've had her 15 years and she is VERY spoiled!
Anyway, my main points are: #1 if you need in-patient detox, give it a try. It can be worked out somehow, don't you think?. The group atmospheres are very supportive too, which is helpful; #2 you may be more likely to develop a problem with valium, xanax, ativan etc. if you detox on your own. In the in-patient detoxes I went to there was a "withdrawal protocol"- which basically means they take your vital signs and ask you about nausea, agitation, etc. and you get a score based on all of your answers. If you score "high" enough, you get 2mgs of Ativan. After the first 24 hours, if you score "high" again it's cut down to only 1mg of Ativan. So they use those type drugs yes, but they taper the dosage fairly gently over 3 or 4 days. By the time you leave you will probably not have had any valium-type drugs for at least a day. The doctors and nurses know that if they discharge you with you still wanting Valium and you have none, alcohol will be your back-up so they are pretty insistent about patients being done with the worst of detox symptoms before they recommend discharge.
Just wanted to share my experience for you or anyone else considering in-patient detox. I ended up doing it again since my last post and today is one week sober and no cravings (so far anyway!) I'm just not strong enough for the self-detox thing I guess.
Good luck to you.
Caper
> > Hi, Caper:
> >
> > I did the same as you-the valium to get through the home detox. And like you-I did it on my own-even my own husband wasn't aware that I had been secretly drinking (a bottle of wine a night!)
> >
> > I'm also 31-female-and had absolutely enough of the secret drinking. I was becoming hostile, aggressive etc. Finally decided that enough was enough and went to see my GP and told him that I wanted valium so I could detox myself. He was VERY supportive-and gave me the meds no problem. Although I did have a check up first.
> >
> > The dosage: Well, this depends on how severe your withdrawl symptoms are-I had a bottle of wine a night habit and I took a 5mg three times a day. Morning-afternoon and night. This worked well for me. I also didn't need the valium until day 3 of being alcohol free-I think that's when the syptoms got the worst of me-very edgey, anxious etc. Only needed the valium for 2 weeks.
> >
> > Hope this helps-please let me know how you're doing.
> >
> > Sophie
>
>
> Hi Sophie,
>
> I have been wondering about how you got on since your last post. It sounds as though you've done wonderfully! Great stuff. :)
>
> Sophie, did you develop any tolerance and/or dependence towards Valium over the two-week period. I'm ashamed to say that I've stayed a bit lost in my drinking after writing my original post and really think that a short-term benzo script may be the answer. (Can't leave my gorgeous cat in order to detox as an in-patient!)
>
> I'm just a little weary about getting hooked on benzos during a two-week period as I have had minor issues with Xanax and Valium in the past.
>
> Glad you are doing so well. Maybe some of your motivation and resolve will rub off on me. :)
>
> Thanks for the update!
>
> Alara
>
>
>
>
Posted by sophie33 on May 28, 2004, at 7:25:14
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by Caper on May 14, 2004, at 7:06:13
Hello everyone!
Just wanted to check in and let y'all know that I've been sober for over 3 weeks now and am gradually lesening my dosage of valium each day. i started at 2mg every 2 hours or so and now i'm finding I only need about 6mg for the day-and occasioanlly 2mg for night before bed. I'm feeling so much better and I'm proof that you can do it! It certainly wasn't easy-but since i've been thorugh this before I knoew I couldn't do it alone and the valium worked WonDERS for me. No withdrawl symptoms at all.
Would love feedback from all of you-how are you all doing?
All the best,
Soph
Posted by zoomdeal on May 30, 2004, at 4:31:05
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by sophie33 on May 28, 2004, at 7:25:14
Hello:
I am currently in the middle of an at home de-tox on valium. I have done it several times in the past. The last time I went 14 months without a drink, the longest period in 20 years. In March, I took a drink and althouth tings did not get as horrible as the folks at AA would have made me believe, I was becoming a prisoner to the bottle again and my family, husband and son, did not like me very much. Just in case anyone asks about it again, you take about 40MG the first day, then 30MG, then 20MG, then 10MG, then 5MG and then none. At the end of 5 days, you are done with the valium. This gets you thru the physical withdrawal. The mental part can last a very long time. As to other physical, I had pain in my arms and legs and headaches for months. But I was a heavy drinker for many years. I have never found a scientic explanation for the the pain that follows but have heard may others at AA describe them as well.. If anyone has seen informatin about this I would love to read it.
For me the AA helped this last time because it gave me a place to go and unwind after work..
I had a hard time with the steps and eventually, I think it drove me crazy and back to drinking..
I got stuck on taking my inventory. In other words, I was constantly thinking how I could have done things better. Over analzing my every action. There were some great people there that truly cared about me.
I think that this time I am going to try going to some other none drinking activities after work instead like jazzercise and Tia Chi.
I am on my second day of the de-tox.
I am 47, a corp exec and mom of a 9 year old boy.
Love to hear from you. Wish me luck. Hopefully, this is the last time. I did not want to go to the doctor and ask again so I did order the valiums online. Expensive but saved the embarrassment of explaining again...
Have a good day.
Posted by Alara2 on June 1, 2004, at 3:27:06
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by sophie33 on May 28, 2004, at 7:25:14
> Hello everyone!
>
> Just wanted to check in and let y'all know that I've been sober for over 3 weeks now and am gradually lesening my dosage of valium each day. i started at 2mg every 2 hours or so and now i'm finding I only need about 6mg for the day-and occasioanlly 2mg for night before bed. I'm feeling so much better and I'm proof that you can do it! It certainly wasn't easy-but since i've been thorugh this before I knoew I couldn't do it alone and the valium worked WonDERS for me. No withdrawl symptoms at all.
>
> Would love feedback from all of you-how are you all doing?
> All the best,
> Soph
Sophie,3 weeks is fantastic! You say that the Valium has spared you of physical withdrawal symptoms. Does that mean that you have stopped craving the taste too? I'd also love to know how long it took for the psychological cravings/obsession to go away. (If not, how much less frequent have they become during the last couple of weeks?)
I have been doing well `for me' in that I've cut down my drinking dramatically during the last few weeks and am now back to one long-neck bottle of beer (2.7 std drinks) a night and have been averaging about one alcohol-free night a week. I've only been drunk about three times in the last fortnight, which is still far too much, but this is such an improvement that I'm fairly happy with myself.I'm going to have another alcohol free night again tomorrow and am gearing myself up for the event.(Have stocked up with herb teas and essential oils to burn in my candle holder. lol)
I'm still finding it hard to `let go' of alcohol because it's been my crutch for so many years, but the prospect of becoming a non-drinker seems so much less depressing now that I'm already feeling the benefits of having cut down.I'm so glad to hear that you're doing well, Sophie. Please keep us updated. It seems that there are a lot of us here who could use a little inspiration. :)
Thanks again for your update and congratulations!
Alara
Posted by Alara2 on June 1, 2004, at 4:21:02
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by zoomdeal on May 30, 2004, at 4:31:05
> Hello:
>
> I am currently in the middle of an at home de-tox on valium. I have done it several times in the past. The last time I went 14 months without a drink, the longest period in 20 years. In March, I took a drink and althouth tings did not get as horrible as the folks at AA would have made me believe, I was becoming a prisoner to the bottle again and my family, husband and son, did not like me very much. Just in case anyone asks about it again, you take about 40MG the first day, then 30MG, then 20MG, then 10MG, then 5MG and then none. At the end of 5 days, you are done with the valium. This gets you thru the physical withdrawal. The mental part can last a very long time. As to other physical, I had pain in my arms and legs and headaches for months. But I was a heavy drinker for many years. I have never found a scientic explanation for the the pain that follows but have heard may others at AA describe them as well.. If anyone has seen informatin about this I would love to read it.
>
> For me the AA helped this last time because it gave me a place to go and unwind after work..
>
> I had a hard time with the steps and eventually, I think it drove me crazy and back to drinking..
>
> I got stuck on taking my inventory. In other words, I was constantly thinking how I could have done things better. Over analzing my every action. There were some great people there that truly cared about me.
>
> I think that this time I am going to try going to some other none drinking activities after work instead like jazzercise and Tia Chi.
>
> I am on my second day of the de-tox.
>
> I am 47, a corp exec and mom of a 9 year old boy.
>
> Love to hear from you. Wish me luck. Hopefully, this is the last time. I did not want to go to the doctor and ask again so I did order the valiums online. Expensive but saved the embarrassment of explaining again...
>
> Have a good day.
>Hi Zoomdeal,
By now you must be on day 3 or 4 of your detox schedule. How are you feeling? What you are doing takes a lot of courage and you sound as though you were in a really positive frame of mind on day 2. Having said that, I know about the psychological ups and downs of trying to get off that awful liquid..Just want you to know that I'm thinking of you and am sure that everyone who reads this is behind you one hundred percent!
It sounds as though you're really working out a long-term plan too. Jazzercise and Thai Chi are great ideas. The planning is something that I've always had a problem with...Have always tended to think: "AA doesn't work", expecting some substitute miracle solution to fall into my lap. As I mentioned to Sophie in my previous post, I am now in the process of cutting down with the intention of abstaining completely, so I guess this is the time to plan!
Hang in there, Zoomdeal, and keep us up to date.
All the best,
Alara
Posted by zoomdeal on June 2, 2004, at 4:35:24
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own » zoomdeal, posted by Alara2 on June 1, 2004, at 4:21:02
Hi Everyone:
I used the three day weekend for the detox -- normally it should take 5 days. Yesterday was a bit tough to go to work. I had to take one of those diet pills with some energy stuff in it--- I was still very tired/sleepy from the valium but I made it. I went to the Thai Chi after work. I think I will keep going-- it teaches relaxation. My first attempt to quit was when I went in rehab in 1993. Family pressure. But I did not really want to quit, I just want the pain to stop. I stayed quit 100 days. Those folks that say that no one fails who makes 90 meetings in 90 days just haven't been around AA enough to know.
Over the next 10 years, I quit 6 or 7 more times but never for more than about 100 days. I saw therapists, psychiatrists, took antidepressants, naltraxeone, you name it. But I always really wanted to be able to drink like normal people.
Finally in January 2003, I decided that I wanted to quit. I took off a week for the valium detox and things were very easy from there in terms of the pschological. I had no desire for a drink, except one day in the first 30 days. The body pain is a different story and may be unrelated (but I doubt it).
In March this year for reasons that I may be able to explain, on one fine day the cravings hit me hard. I took that drink of scotch. I started off sort of slow, ie not everyday. Soon it was everyday again. Nothing really bad has happened but I am a black out drinker. Not everyday but when I least expect it. When I black out, I say mean things that I don't remember. So the negative consequences are there. A couple of weeks ago I tried to quit with out the valium. I made it through Sat and Sun and went to work on Monday. By the end of the day on Monday, it was like I was having a panic attack. I went right for the scotch and had a bad black out day on very little scotch.
The valium detox or any other benzo is the way to go if you are a heavy drinker. Cold turkey is dangerous-- there is no medically known way to stop DT's if they start.
This is the morning of day 4 and I feel good, no shakes or craving. I am ready to do this.
I am talking my self out of the jazzercise, but am going to check into belly dancing today.
Once you get a little sober time, I do think that reading the Big Book can be good. AA can be good also when you are in those early days. And for alot of people it is good for a long time. Who knows I may wind up back there.
Also for those of you with trouble sleeping, Trazadone is the best and the doctor will let you use it for a long time.
Thanks for your support and your free to tell me how crazy I am sound.
Regards,
Ann
Posted by Caper on June 2, 2004, at 5:40:08
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by zoomdeal on June 2, 2004, at 4:35:24
"Also for those of you with trouble sleeping, Trazadone is the best and the doctor will let you use it for a long time."
I agree that trazadone (brand name Desyrel) is great as a sleeping aid in those of us who are addiction prone. It's technically an antidepressant, but so sedating that hardly anyone can tolerate a therapeutic dosage as an AD so it's usually used for sleep instead, in small doses.
As long as you get a reasonable night's sleep (meaning don't take it at 3 am and expect to be up and about at 6!) it has very few side effects besides dry mouth. Also, it's very cheap!
Best to all,
Caper
Posted by zoomdeal on June 4, 2004, at 4:30:43
In reply to trazadone- I agree, posted by Caper on June 2, 2004, at 5:40:08
Hi,
I am still ok but the fatique and body aches have been awful. Hopefully today will be better.
I have been talking with my husband about how life needs to change between us so that drinking does not have more appeal than normal life.
Hopefully, some things will change.
Good luck to all.
Regards,
Ann
Posted by zoomdeal on June 5, 2004, at 3:29:50
In reply to Re: trazadone- I agree, posted by zoomdeal on June 4, 2004, at 4:30:43
Caper,
How are you? Still sober? I went to an AA meeting last night that I had never been to before. It was pretty good. I went because I needed a place to unwind for an hour after work before I came home. My babysitter drives me nuts. I would like to here how you are.
Regards,
Ann
Posted by Alara2 on June 6, 2004, at 0:41:49
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by zoomdeal on June 2, 2004, at 4:35:24
>
Hi Ann,Am not sure what happened just then but my entire post just vanished before I even sent it - and I'm not even drinking! lol
First of all, 100 days is great. And the fact that you've managed to reach that goal several times suggests to me that you really are well into the process of recovery.
AA helps many people and it sounds as though meetings really give you a healthy relaxation alternative. I have to say, though, that I have issues with the AA philosophy that drinking after 100 days constitutes a total `bust'. By abstaining for 100 days, you have given your liver (and the rest of your body) a much-needed rest and have surely done a lot of psychological healing as well.
They say that most people who successfully recover (regardless of the approach that they use) only do so after several attempts. People like you really inspire me because you symbolise what it must be like to make it half way up the mountain. (And we're talking Mt Everest here, not just the little hill at the end of your suburb.:) )
I'm one of those people at the bottom of the mountain looking up. Last year I abstained for a record couple of weeks after falling pregnant but unfortunately miscarried and hit the bottle hard. These days I'm doing a little bit better - drinking beer instead of (more alcoholic) wine and staying sober for an average of one day a week. At least I have the courage now to start looking up at people like you climbing the mountain. Before this I spent a lot of time averting my gaze and digging holes.
Ann, I totally relate to your experience of hoping that you could become a normal drinker. I've been playing silly little games with myself lately, attempting to cut down my drinking with the aim of eventually getting by on one standard drink a night. (I've been living under some STUPID delusion that I can accomplish this by controlling my supply...Problem is that I get the taste in my mouth and just wind up back at the bottle shop looking for more...) Letting go really seems to be half the battle but, as you know, it's hard.
I think I will follow in your footsteps and try a medical home detox (ie valium)this week. I found the name of a local doctor with additional qualifications in mental health. I just hope that she doesn't order any liver function tests because the thought of being physically sick sends my anxiety levels through the roof!
About sleep: I couldn't find Trazadone in the Australian Mims (pharmaceutical bible) but it may be sold under a different trade name here. What are its main ingredients? I occasionally use Restavit (an antihistamine) for sleep but doubt that it's suitable for ongoing use.
Thanks for sharing your story, Ann. You'll get there in the end!
Alara
Posted by Alara2 on June 6, 2004, at 3:07:42
In reply to Re: trazadone- I agree, posted by zoomdeal on June 5, 2004, at 3:29:50
Just thought I'd mention this to anybody looking for the extra support of a small online group: I've created a new group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Individual_Recovery/
I hope to see some of you there as well as continuing this conversation on Dr Bob's site. (I love this thread! You guys are really inspiring me.:) )
Alara (Lisa)
Posted by Caper on June 6, 2004, at 4:01:48
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own » zoomdeal, posted by Alara2 on June 6, 2004, at 0:41:49
Hi Alara,
I'm not sure if you've read this before in one of my other posts, but trazadone's brand name in the U.S. is Desyrel. Maybe that could help you track it down in your country. It's been around forever, first as antidepressant but was so sedating hardly anyone could tolerate the "therapeutic dosage" as an AD. So it became used as a sleep aid mostly. It's basically an early SSRI type anti depressant.
I totally agree with the "supply" theory. Not having it around doesn't make me less likely to drink, just so anxious about not having it handy that I'm more likely to rush out, buy it, and down it as soon as I'm back in the house! Whereas if it's there, I can try to distract myself 'til the craving subsides. My therapist says this is "wrong" because it lets me keep believing alcohol is an appropriate "coping mechanism" but--- I do seem to drink less when I have a supply on hand that's enough I don't feel anxious I'll be caught without. My theory is: whatever works, or least whatever helps.
Best of luck in your recovery and in the results of your medical tests.
Take care.
Caper
> >
> Hi Ann,
>
> Am not sure what happened just then but my entire post just vanished before I even sent it - and I'm not even drinking! lol
>
> First of all, 100 days is great. And the fact that you've managed to reach that goal several times suggests to me that you really are well into the process of recovery.
>
> AA helps many people and it sounds as though meetings really give you a healthy relaxation alternative. I have to say, though, that I have issues with the AA philosophy that drinking after 100 days constitutes a total `bust'. By abstaining for 100 days, you have given your liver (and the rest of your body) a much-needed rest and have surely done a lot of psychological healing as well.
>
> They say that most people who successfully recover (regardless of the approach that they use) only do so after several attempts. People like you really inspire me because you symbolise what it must be like to make it half way up the mountain. (And we're talking Mt Everest here, not just the little hill at the end of your suburb.:) )
>
> I'm one of those people at the bottom of the mountain looking up. Last year I abstained for a record couple of weeks after falling pregnant but unfortunately miscarried and hit the bottle hard. These days I'm doing a little bit better - drinking beer instead of (more alcoholic) wine and staying sober for an average of one day a week. At least I have the courage now to start looking up at people like you climbing the mountain. Before this I spent a lot of time averting my gaze and digging holes.
>
> Ann, I totally relate to your experience of hoping that you could become a normal drinker. I've been playing silly little games with myself lately, attempting to cut down my drinking with the aim of eventually getting by on one standard drink a night. (I've been living under some STUPID delusion that I can accomplish this by controlling my supply...Problem is that I get the taste in my mouth and just wind up back at the bottle shop looking for more...) Letting go really seems to be half the battle but, as you know, it's hard.
>
> I think I will follow in your footsteps and try a medical home detox (ie valium)this week. I found the name of a local doctor with additional qualifications in mental health. I just hope that she doesn't order any liver function tests because the thought of being physically sick sends my anxiety levels through the roof!
>
> About sleep: I couldn't find Trazadone in the Australian Mims (pharmaceutical bible) but it may be sold under a different trade name here. What are its main ingredients? I occasionally use Restavit (an antihistamine) for sleep but doubt that it's suitable for ongoing use.
>
> Thanks for sharing your story, Ann. You'll get there in the end!
>
> Alara
Posted by Alara2 on June 6, 2004, at 4:18:38
In reply to trazadone and the supply theory of abstinence » Alara2, posted by Caper on June 6, 2004, at 4:01:48
Thanks Caper,
Yes, I did read your post which mentioned Desyrel after I replied to Ann, but I don't think it's available in Australia. However, I'll ask my new doctor about this when I see her.
I know exactly what you mean by your `supply theory'! Tonight I'm not drinking at all but know that there is a beer in the fridge if I get desperate. Somehow this knowledge helps to calm me down and I know that I'll get through this night sober.
This just goes to prove that different things work for different people.
How are you going, Caper?
Alara
> Hi Alara,
>
> I'm not sure if you've read this before in one of my other posts, but trazadone's brand name in the U.S. is Desyrel. Maybe that could help you track it down in your country. It's been around forever, first as antidepressant but was so sedating hardly anyone could tolerate the "therapeutic dosage" as an AD. So it became used as a sleep aid mostly. It's basically an early SSRI type anti depressant.
>
> I totally agree with the "supply" theory. Not having it around doesn't make me less likely to drink, just so anxious about not having it handy that I'm more likely to rush out, buy it, and down it as soon as I'm back in the house! Whereas if it's there, I can try to distract myself 'til the craving subsides. My therapist says this is "wrong" because it lets me keep believing alcohol is an appropriate "coping mechanism" but--- I do seem to drink less when I have a supply on hand that's enough I don't feel anxious I'll be caught without. My theory is: whatever works, or least whatever helps.
>
> Best of luck in your recovery and in the results of your medical tests.
>
> Take care.
>
> Caper
> >
Posted by Caper on June 6, 2004, at 6:42:06
In reply to Re: trazadone and the supply theory of abstinence » Caper, posted by Alara2 on June 6, 2004, at 4:18:38
Hi Alara,
Nice to hear from you. I'm glad you sound better and hopeful.
As for me, I'm just hanging on right now. I have a visit with a very good friend I haven't seen in years planned for week from today but after that I'm checking myself into a hospital recommended by both my former psychiatrist and my current therapist. Supposedly they keep you for a while, so that's why I'm waiting. "Fun" has become a foreign word to me in the last few years so I do not want to miss my friends' visit. Otherwise I'd be trying to check in right now.
I'm happy to say I'm off the hard liquor and just trying to maintain/taper wine and valium (never together though!) until after my friends' visit. Then I'll go to this hospital that specializes in "dual diagnosis" since I'm also Bipolar (plus PTSD, plus ADD *sigh*).
I'm really pleased to hear of your progress. I'm pulling for you! Keep in touch.
Take care,
Caper
> Thanks Caper,
>
> Yes, I did read your post which mentioned Desyrel after I replied to Ann, but I don't think it's available in Australia. However, I'll ask my new doctor about this when I see her.
>
> I know exactly what you mean by your `supply theory'! Tonight I'm not drinking at all but know that there is a beer in the fridge if I get desperate. Somehow this knowledge helps to calm me down and I know that I'll get through this night sober.
>
> This just goes to prove that different things work for different people.
>
> How are you going, Caper?
>
> Alara
>
> > Hi Alara,
> >
> > I'm not sure if you've read this before in one of my other posts, but trazadone's brand name in the U.S. is Desyrel. Maybe that could help you track it down in your country. It's been around forever, first as antidepressant but was so sedating hardly anyone could tolerate the "therapeutic dosage" as an AD. So it became used as a sleep aid mostly. It's basically an early SSRI type anti depressant.
> >
> > I totally agree with the "supply" theory. Not having it around doesn't make me less likely to drink, just so anxious about not having it handy that I'm more likely to rush out, buy it, and down it as soon as I'm back in the house! Whereas if it's there, I can try to distract myself 'til the craving subsides. My therapist says this is "wrong" because it lets me keep believing alcohol is an appropriate "coping mechanism" but--- I do seem to drink less when I have a supply on hand that's enough I don't feel anxious I'll be caught without. My theory is: whatever works, or least whatever helps.
> >
> > Best of luck in your recovery and in the results of your medical tests.
> >
> > Take care.
> >
> > Caper
> > >
Posted by Alara2 on June 6, 2004, at 7:18:40
In reply to Re: trazadone and the supply theory of abstinence » Alara2, posted by Caper on June 6, 2004, at 6:42:06
Hi Caper,
Thanks for your kind words and encouragement. I'm nearing the end of day one now and have taken a Restavit to bring on sleep. Tomorrow (Monday) I'll try to get an appointment with this new doctor.
I'm glad that you've at least managed to taper down from hard liquor to wine and that you have a plan for sorting yourself out. It really sounds as though you'll be in expert hands.
Enjoy your friend's visit meanwhile and have one for me. :)
Thanks again,
Alara
> Hi Alara,
>
> Nice to hear from you. I'm glad you sound better and hopeful.
>
> As for me, I'm just hanging on right now. I have a visit with a very good friend I haven't seen in years planned for week from today but after that I'm checking myself into a hospital recommended by both my former psychiatrist and my current therapist. Supposedly they keep you for a while, so that's why I'm waiting. "Fun" has become a foreign word to me in the last few years so I do not want to miss my friends' visit. Otherwise I'd be trying to check in right now.
>
> I'm happy to say I'm off the hard liquor and just trying to maintain/taper wine and valium (never together though!) until after my friends' visit. Then I'll go to this hospital that specializes in "dual diagnosis" since I'm also Bipolar (plus PTSD, plus ADD *sigh*).
>
> I'm really pleased to hear of your progress. I'm pulling for you! Keep in touch.
>
> Take care,
>
> Caper
> >
Posted by sophie33 on June 9, 2004, at 4:37:24
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own » sophie33, posted by Alara2 on June 1, 2004, at 3:27:06
Hi all (and u too Alara!)
I have been sober for almost 6 weeks now-still using valium-about 6mg. a day-I have the occasional non alcoholic beer for the taste but other than that I have no cravings for wine or anything else. The biggest test was that I was at a wild wedding over the weekend and drank tonic all night and felt great and had a wonderful time!!!! :)How are u doing? I take a 2mg tablet 2x a day and a 4mg at night before bed. Has worked like magic!!! Write me back and tell me how u are!
Sophie
Posted by Alara2 on June 12, 2004, at 7:55:06
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by sophie33 on June 9, 2004, at 4:37:24
> Hi all (and u too Alara!)
> I have been sober for almost 6 weeks now-still using valium-about 6mg. a day-I have the occasional non alcoholic beer for the taste but other than that I have no cravings for wine or anything else. The biggest test was that I was at a wild wedding over the weekend and drank tonic all night and felt great and had a wonderful time!!!! :)
>
> How are u doing? I take a 2mg tablet 2x a day and a 4mg at night before bed. Has worked like magic!!! Write me back and tell me how u are!
> Sophie
Hi Sophie,You sound so well. :) I know what you mean about having a good time on tonic water...It kind of fools your brain into thinking that it's getting alcohol..At least that's what happens to me...
I haven't been able to get in to see the new doctor yet but did visit my regular GP, who suggested that I just try limiting my supply for one week and reporting back to him at the end. I have actually done pretty well. This is the tally:
Day 1: 2 std drinks (beer)
Day 2: 8 std drinks (binge)
Day 3: abstained
Day 4: 2 std drinks
Day 5: abstained
Day 6: 3 std drinks
Day 7: abstainedThis was actually a record good week for me. :)
Am glad that Valium is working for you. My doctor told me that he'd be willing to prescribe it for me if I need it, but I'm starting to believe that I may be able to do it by cutting down this time.
I am aiming for 30 days of trial-abstinence next.
Sophie, I'm glad to hear that you're doing so well.
Thanks for writing!
Alara
Posted by Medic4311 on June 14, 2004, at 23:00:45
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by zoomdeal on June 2, 2004, at 4:35:24
Can anyone tell me how bad it is going to be for me? I am 28 and have been drinking between 12 to 18 beers per day for the last 3 weeks. Please let me know. I really hate this drinking crap. I also want to kind of taper it off..... any suggestions?
> Hi Everyone:
>
> I used the three day weekend for the detox -- normally it should take 5 days. Yesterday was a bit tough to go to work. I had to take one of those diet pills with some energy stuff in it--- I was still very tired/sleepy from the valium but I made it. I went to the Thai Chi after work. I think I will keep going-- it teaches relaxation. My first attempt to quit was when I went in rehab in 1993. Family pressure. But I did not really want to quit, I just want the pain to stop. I stayed quit 100 days. Those folks that say that no one fails who makes 90 meetings in 90 days just haven't been around AA enough to know.
>
> Over the next 10 years, I quit 6 or 7 more times but never for more than about 100 days. I saw therapists, psychiatrists, took antidepressants, naltraxeone, you name it. But I always really wanted to be able to drink like normal people.
>
> Finally in January 2003, I decided that I wanted to quit. I took off a week for the valium detox and things were very easy from there in terms of the pschological. I had no desire for a drink, except one day in the first 30 days. The body pain is a different story and may be unrelated (but I doubt it).
>
> In March this year for reasons that I may be able to explain, on one fine day the cravings hit me hard. I took that drink of scotch. I started off sort of slow, ie not everyday. Soon it was everyday again. Nothing really bad has happened but I am a black out drinker. Not everyday but when I least expect it. When I black out, I say mean things that I don't remember. So the negative consequences are there. A couple of weeks ago I tried to quit with out the valium. I made it through Sat and Sun and went to work on Monday. By the end of the day on Monday, it was like I was having a panic attack. I went right for the scotch and had a bad black out day on very little scotch.
>
> The valium detox or any other benzo is the way to go if you are a heavy drinker. Cold turkey is dangerous-- there is no medically known way to stop DT's if they start.
>
> This is the morning of day 4 and I feel good, no shakes or craving. I am ready to do this.
>
> I am talking my self out of the jazzercise, but am going to check into belly dancing today.
>
> Once you get a little sober time, I do think that reading the Big Book can be good. AA can be good also when you are in those early days. And for alot of people it is good for a long time. Who knows I may wind up back there.
>
> Also for those of you with trouble sleeping, Trazadone is the best and the doctor will let you use it for a long time.
>
> Thanks for your support and your free to tell me how crazy I am sound.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ann
>
>
Posted by sophie33 on June 15, 2004, at 4:14:54
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by Alara2 on June 12, 2004, at 7:55:06
Hi all!
Alara-glad to hear that you're doing it on your own! That's such good news! I'm still on the valium but now only at night-no more during the day! I've never felt better. I have been completely sober for over 6 weeks now and feel really good. We're going on vacation in a few weeks so I think it may be a test for me there-the tropics and beach and i know I will so want a margarita-damn! But, I've made it this far and a non-al beer really fools me into thinking it's a real beer and it satisfies the urge....Good luck to you!
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