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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by medhed on April 25, 2005, at 21:46:47
Do you think a lifetime of using drugs constitutes addiction? I've been using drugs for 30+ years and I rarely get addicted to anything. My cravings are just like my attractions to food, sex, amusement parks, socializing, and the like. Naturally things I enjoy are formost in my thoughts. I never wanted to quit getting high other than to recouperate for my next buzz. I've always been willing to pay the price for my behavior (if I'm stupid enough to get busted). Why does my lifestyle make me unpopular with 'normal' people? I believe Euphoriaphobics are afraid of me because they wish they could do what I do! Somebody is using all those drugs shipped in or manufactured in this country, still speaking out for your freedom is frowned upon. I'm rambling but I really could go on and on. Whatcha think?
P.S. I'm considered a 'garbage head' (no drug is out of the question if it supplies an experience) with an affinity to opiates, marijuana, halucinagens, and hypnotic/barbituate/tranqs.
JUSY SAY NO TO REHAB 12 STEP!
Posted by partlycloudy on April 26, 2005, at 8:39:29
In reply to Not popular beliefs..., posted by medhed on April 25, 2005, at 21:46:47
I love the last line of your post!
I think that all cultures in the human race (with the exception of the Inuit, who had to wait for the white man to foist alcohol upon them) has been using mind altering substances since recorded history began.I believe that people can use mind altering substances all their lives and not be addicted to them. I also believe (personally) that for some of us, we are genetically predispositioned to almost immediately form an abusive relationship with these substances.
I believe that for most people, using these substances on a ceremonial or recreational basis don't constitute abuse; but I can attest that my body is hard-wired for substance abuse. In my case, it's alcohol that turns me from a pleasant, rather mild mannered chicken sh*t into a sarcastic witch. For me there are emotional factors that come into play (I'm not exactly comfortable being Me) that reinforces the abusive behaviour, but I'm well aware that continuing to drink is the fast track to ending any kind of relationship with another human being and isolating myself even further.
That's my take, anyhow.
Posted by medhed on April 26, 2005, at 9:37:17
In reply to Re: Not popular beliefs... » medhed, posted by partlycloudy on April 26, 2005, at 8:39:29
Yes, I try to avoid alcohol although early on in my experimentation I drank quite a bit (availability?). I made a fool of myself many times with virtually no payoff for my trouble. Sometimes I forget what an *ss I can be when I drink heavily ( is there any way else to drink? ) and I always regret. There are other substances I choose not to use due to my lack of control under their influence. Does this mean I should quit all drugs? TOTAL ABSTINENCE? I think it's about carefully realizing what is worth the trade off of incredible high to incredible low. You always have to pay for the ride, mostly.
I really enjoy seeing other people having fun with alcohol and I have great empathy for those who are suffering under it's influence.
Posted by sunny10 on April 26, 2005, at 13:30:33
In reply to Re: Not popular beliefs... » partlycloudy, posted by medhed on April 26, 2005, at 9:37:17
exist for a reason.
They exist because they have seen so many of their own family and friends whose bodies cannot seem to tolerate what you say yours can.
They exist because they have suffered from or seen abuse, neglect, murder, and all other kinds of mistreatment that man can inflict upon man due to addiction.
So "euphoriaphobes" as you call them are not afraid of altered states per se, they are afraid of what addiction does to people. Another way to phrase your question could be "what exactly is "normal"...
Statistics show that what you say you experience (no addiction) is NOT the "norm".
You might want to ask if there is anything wrong with being the "exception to the norm"...
does that help?
-sunny10
Posted by medhed on April 26, 2005, at 14:37:07
In reply to Re: euphoriaphobes, posted by sunny10 on April 26, 2005, at 13:30:33
I didn't think I was asking for help just opinions...I thank you for your opinion Sunny. I pray that your bitterness and closed mindedness on this subject will subside so you can follow the path to becomming a whole person. Peace
Posted by sunny10 on April 26, 2005, at 15:01:58
In reply to not popular beliefs » sunny10, posted by medhed on April 26, 2005, at 14:37:07
Posted by medhed on April 26, 2005, at 17:10:35
In reply to Re: I am whole and chemical free (nm) » medhed, posted by sunny10 on April 26, 2005, at 15:01:58
I'm glad you are Sunny!
Just changing it back to the original posting title, I really hate when it gets changed.. OCD I suppose.
Posted by jay on April 26, 2005, at 20:09:39
In reply to Not popular beliefs... » sunny10, posted by medhed on April 26, 2005, at 17:10:35
I find I really have to pace my substance use. Using Vitamins is like taking a chemical...St. John's Wort is a herb just like THC is. I like to take just enough to put me in the 'right headspace'. I never really want to 'cross the line', for me it is more a fear of hangovers and things like that...nothing 'moral'. I'd probably be open to trying Opium...for I can take some big doses of Oxycontin on and off and not be an 'addict'. I guess the only thing I wouldn't do is inject something into me, more because I am afraid (a chicken) of needles and there is the whole safety issue with clean needles and such. My belief is that the General Motor's Plant down the street from me has poisoned me with more chemicals than could ever imagine (the *really* dangerous ones), for my complete 35 years of life, that these little pills and such are *nothing*. The rear yard of the GM plant, which happens to be my backyard, is all fenced off with danger signs of buried PCB's and tons of other garbage. There are a few streams that actually have a 'green tinge' that you can see in the dark. No wonder we have one of the highest cancer rates in the country. And they are worried about a little bit o' pot? Man...
Sorry for the rant..
Jay
Posted by Phil on April 26, 2005, at 20:59:11
In reply to Re: Not popular beliefs... » medhed, posted by jay on April 26, 2005, at 20:09:39
That GM plant sounds lethal. I was exposed to DDT and others in a ylfyfduwOPlrp;yf.hf;fhk'fckme;dhyk;ljfhlyufuf.lhyf.lyfl;fyl;fuyejbfl.[p;i7ytrl6e6shITztldlutdlydf;flucklemepg86834uldeljyopd]paInInthe^ss.
Sorry. Where were we?
Posted by medhed on April 26, 2005, at 22:38:21
In reply to Re: Not popular beliefs... » medhed, posted by jay on April 26, 2005, at 20:09:39
General Electric dumped PCBs in the hudson river for years and just now is paying for it. They say they're dredging but it looks like stirring to me. Let me tell you about the fish with blah, blah. blah blah, bla and it was green and yellow...
Posted by Declan on April 26, 2005, at 23:01:17
In reply to Not popular beliefs..., posted by medhed on April 25, 2005, at 21:46:47
Medhead, your beliefs are totally cool with me. We need to practise a certain disengagement, think for and look after ourselves. The DSMIV idea of normality, cobbled together like the creed but without half the class. We do like those in our own image (less threat). Yours incoherantly
Declan
Posted by alexxf on July 23, 2007, at 15:55:09
In reply to Re: Not popular beliefs... » medhed, posted by partlycloudy on April 26, 2005, at 8:39:29
> I believe that people can use mind altering substances all their lives and not be addicted to them. I also believe (personally) that for some of us, we are genetically predispositioned to almost immediately form an abusive relationship with these substances.
I totally agree with this...no matter what the substance, if it makes me feel good, i will want it more and more and more...It has caused a lot of problems and I've had to choose immediate gratification or my husband. Not fair. But, priorities are priorities. Doesn't keep it from being in my thoughts though, and when and if I can get my hands on "it" I will (secretly). I don't know how i feel about that? Sometimes I hate myself for it...other times I just need to "get away".
Posted by Deus_Abscondis on September 8, 2007, at 3:00:37
In reply to Not popular beliefs..., posted by medhed on April 25, 2005, at 21:46:47
Medhed,
I'm tempted to say the only bad addiction is an unsatisfied addiction.
To qualify this: an addiction becomes problematic when:-
- it causes dysfunction in the life of the user
and
- the user cannot cope with or stop the dysfunction as a matter of choice
and
- the addiction has adverse and unacceptable impacts on health and welfare
and
- the addiction is antisocial in that it has
adverse health or welfare effects
or the potential to create adverse health effects in others (this means that USE may need to be private or restricted)Some people who are unaware that they have a latent addiction to a substance function better
when using the substance in a responsible and
sustainable manner. I believe this is called a
pseudo-addiction.It is being discovered that some people are genetically predisposed to favor the use or
abuse of substances. This may be due to an abnormal reward mechanism in the brain.Rather than treating these people to some form
of abstinence program, which could be viewed
as a form of mis-treatment, it is being realised
that controlled use of the substance brings
their brains closer to normal and improves
the persons life and function in the community.It is also being discovered that some illnesses
can bring about irreversible changes to reward
and pain systems and that a justifiable
medical treatment might include the use of
medicines that were one available but have stopped
being used for political rather than scientific/medical reasons.D
Posted by Mathia on September 18, 2007, at 0:58:42
In reply to Re: Not popular beliefs..., posted by Deus_Abscondis on September 8, 2007, at 3:00:37
> Medhed,
>
> I'm tempted to say the only bad addiction is an unsatisfied addiction.
>
> To qualify this: an addiction becomes problematic when:-
>
> - it causes dysfunction in the life of the user
>
> and
>
> - the user cannot cope with or stop the dysfunction as a matter of choice
>
> and
>
> - the addiction has adverse and unacceptable impacts on health and welfare
>
> and
>
> - the addiction is antisocial in that it has
> adverse health or welfare effects
> or the potential to create adverse health effects in others (this means that USE may need to be private or restricted)
>
> Some people who are unaware that they have a latent addiction to a substance function better
> when using the substance in a responsible and
> sustainable manner. I believe this is called a
> pseudo-addiction.
>
> It is being discovered that some people are genetically predisposed to favor the use or
> abuse of substances. This may be due to an abnormal reward mechanism in the brain.
>
> Rather than treating these people to some form
> of abstinence program, which could be viewed
> as a form of mis-treatment, it is being realised
> that controlled use of the substance brings
> their brains closer to normal and improves
> the persons life and function in the community.
>
> It is also being discovered that some illnesses
> can bring about irreversible changes to reward
> and pain systems and that a justifiable
> medical treatment might include the use of
> medicines that were one available but have stopped
> being used for political rather than scientific/medical reasons.
>
> DAmen to that D
I think its alot about money. If the pharmacuetical co.'s can start new drug after new drug (that are all the same mostly) and charge hundreds of dollars and then the insurance companies pay for it, everyone from the doctor to the pharma. co all win. I noticed when my family doctor suggested effexor for my depression, because "hes had alot of success with it", I was looking and he had an effexor pen, tablet, and on the way out briefly looked in his office and noticed a nice effexor calender. Not to mention, the dinners, club seats, vacations, etc, they give out for "pushing" these drugs.
I eventually tried wellbutrin, and I love the way they say "we dont know how they work they just do", and once your on it for 3 months try and stop and its a definite withdraw in itself. Also, liver tests, every few months to make sure its not effecting your liver. (like when they find out it is, oh well your liver has been damaged, were gonna stop this one now LOL its a joke)
How about some trying some good old cheap codeine, and actually have something that is rather safe and really makes me feel better in 20 -30 minutes instead of possibly 6-8 weeks and then rarely helps. Thats another thing, you finally drag yourself to a psychiatrist after getting enough energy to get off the floor and tell them how depressed you are and they give you something that will work in 6 weeks. Then if that one doesnt work "there's plenty of others we can try", another 4-6 weeks, etc, etc, etc, 6 months go by and no relief. Its seriously wrong and someone should do something about it because, the majority of psychiatrists, psychotherapist, therapist, that Ive dealt with have lived a pretty darn good life and have no idea about depression except what they've read in college. Its time for change.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Substance Use | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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