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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 23, 2005, at 23:49:20
When the liver enlarges, and then shrinks, becasue of alcohol use, is that a really really bad sign?
And does anyone know if you can judge life expectancy on this?can I ask more detailed questions about alcohol deaths or is that depressing?
Thanks
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2005, at 22:34:25
In reply to kinda Morbid Question- alcohol, posted by rainbowbrite on May 23, 2005, at 23:49:20
> When the liver enlarges, and then shrinks, becasue of alcohol use, is that a really really bad sign?
> And does anyone know if you can judge life expectancy on this?
>
> can I ask more detailed questions about alcohol deaths or is that depressing?
>
> ThanksI wasn't aware that the liver shrank.....I always thought it enlarged, stayed that way, but failed anyway.
Is there a name for the condition you're thinking about?
I dunno, is it morbid to talk about health consequences of substance abuse? I think it's part of overcoming denial.
Lar
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 26, 2005, at 23:33:47
In reply to Re: kinda Morbid Question- alcohol » rainbowbrite, posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2005, at 22:34:25
Hi Larry> I wasn't aware that the liver shrank.....I always thought it enlarged, stayed that way, but failed anyway.
oops I meant to write shrink and then enlarge. When the liver starts have problems is the liver fixable? Or is it all down hill?
>
> Is there a name for the condition you're thinking about?Probably but I dont know it. I know someone who has liver problems and if i got it right a few years ago there was liver shrinkage and now I understand thier liver is a little bit enlarged..which is suggestive of chirrosis (sp) I believe. Now it could be that their liver has enlarged to normal size...but Im not positive. I have looked up shrinking liver etc and am not finding anything.
> I dunno, is it morbid to talk about health consequences of substance abuse? I think it's part of overcoming denial.
I wasnt sure. but youre right. I guess I am just trying to understand what alcohol death involves. How awful it is for the person and when it happens (time frame) etc. Or maybe just how truely toxic alcohol is to the brain and body. Some people can drink for years and years and not get sick whereas others can kill themselves drinking in such short time frames. I dont get it.
Thanks
Rain
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 28, 2005, at 21:48:29
In reply to Re: kinda Morbid Question- alcohol » Larry Hoover, posted by rainbowbrite on May 26, 2005, at 23:33:47
>
> Hi Larry
>
> > I wasn't aware that the liver shrank.....I always thought it enlarged, stayed that way, but failed anyway.
>
> oops I meant to write shrink and then enlarge. When the liver starts have problems is the liver fixable? Or is it all down hill?There are a lot of factors. The liver is the only organ that regenerates itself. That's why you can give away half your liver in a live-donor organ transplant. Both halves will grow to full size in a matter of a couple months.
That regenerating capacity has limits, of course. And there are so many factors. Alcohol abuse often means poor diet, and both have profound effects on the liver. Viruses (hepatitis). Toxins (e.g. pesticides). Genetic influences. There's no simple answer. Yet, there is a point where damage is considered to be irreversible. At that point, only a transplant can change the prognosis.
> >
> > Is there a name for the condition you're thinking about?
>
> Probably but I dont know it. I know someone who has liver problems and if i got it right a few years ago there was liver shrinkage and now I understand thier liver is a little bit enlarged..which is suggestive of chirrosis (sp) I believe. Now it could be that their liver has enlarged to normal size...but Im not positive. I have looked up shrinking liver etc and am not finding anything.I honestly don't know of anything that shrinks the liver. It's not ringing any bells, anyway.
Cirrhosis isn't just a disease caused by alcohol. There are many other kinds, too. Some people who've never had a drop of alcohol die of cirrhosis. Here's a nice article on that:
http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/cirrhosis/
> > I dunno, is it morbid to talk about health consequences of substance abuse? I think it's part of overcoming denial.
>
> I wasnt sure. but youre right. I guess I am just trying to understand what alcohol death involves. How awful it is for the person and when it happens (time frame) etc.It's a pretty rough way to go. And it takes a while (usually).
> Or maybe just how truely toxic alcohol is to the brain and body. Some people can drink for years and years and not get sick whereas others can kill themselves drinking in such short time frames. I dont get it.
>
> Thanks
> RainI can't answer the question about why some people are so much more vulnerable to the adverse effects of alcohol than others. It probably has to do with the individual risk factors for liver failure. Apart from some specific brain effects (really due to poor diet, especially vitamin B3 deficiency), alcohol usually kills via liver damage (or deaths attributed to "accidents").
Lar
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 29, 2005, at 13:03:52
In reply to Re: kinda Morbid Question- alcohol » rainbowbrite, posted by Larry Hoover on May 28, 2005, at 21:48:29
Hi Lar
> That regenerating capacity has limits, of course. And there are so many factors. Alcohol abuse often means poor diet, and both have profound effects on the liver. Viruses (hepatitis). Toxins (e.g. pesticides). Genetic influences. There's no simple answer. Yet, there is a point where damage is considered to be irreversible. At that point, only a transplant can change the prognosis.
So maybe its not as bad as I was thinking....If a person has a yellow hue to them, very very faint..do you know if thats a sign of irreversible damage....actually I should read the article beofre I ask :)
> I honestly don't know of anything that shrinks the liver. It's not ringing any bells, anyway.
Ok so maybe I got it all mixed up....Maybe their liver had expanded and then shrunk back to normal size. I think im going to go to the source and see if I can get the facts out of them becaues now Im not sure what I heard anymore.> Cirrhosis isn't just a disease caused by alcohol. There are many other kinds, too. Some people who've never had a drop of alcohol die of cirrhosis. Here's a nice article on that:
http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/cirrhosis/Thanks for the article!
> It's a pretty rough way to go. And it takes a while (usually).
thats what I was afraid of.
> I can't answer the question about why some people are so much more vulnerable to the adverse effects of alcohol than others. It probably has to do with the individual risk factors for liver failure. Apart from some specific brain effects (really due to poor diet, especially vitamin B3 deficiency), alcohol usually kills via liver damage (or deaths attributed to "accidents").
>
> Lar
>Thanks for your help and info.
rain
Posted by Sebastian on May 29, 2005, at 13:54:10
In reply to kinda Morbid Question- alcohol, posted by rainbowbrite on May 23, 2005, at 23:49:20
how much alcohol can I drink with out killing my liver. I don't belive what the one of my doctors says. She says to drink 1-2 drinks a week, max. I tell my psychiatirist that I have 2 drinks a day, and he says ok with all my meds. I'm taking 30 celexa, 2.5 zyprexa, 300 wellbutrin sr, 180 geodon. Recently I got up to 4 drinks a day, so I quit drinking. It was too much I think it made me sick(sore throt, nose). No I wonder if 2 a day is ok.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 29, 2005, at 16:46:23
In reply to Re: kinda Morbid Question- alcohol, posted by Sebastian on May 29, 2005, at 13:54:10
> how much alcohol can I drink with out killing my liver. I don't belive what the one of my doctors says. She says to drink 1-2 drinks a week, max. I tell my psychiatirist that I have 2 drinks a day, and he says ok with all my meds. I'm taking 30 celexa, 2.5 zyprexa, 300 wellbutrin sr, 180 geodon. Recently I got up to 4 drinks a day, so I quit drinking. It was too much I think it made me sick(sore throt, nose). No I wonder if 2 a day is ok.
There is not "magic number" to provide you with. I didn't look up those drugs, but if any of them stress the liver, you can concider the alcohol as adding to the stress. The combination effect won't be just the alcohol.
2 standard drinks per day is generally considered to be safe. But that assumes no other toxic load on the liver. You can't be sure what amount is safe, but surely zero alcohol is pretty safe.
Your blood work would indicate a liver problem, as elevated liver enzymes. If you ignore that warning signal (the enzymes are up), that's when you get into real trouble.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 29, 2005, at 16:49:08
In reply to Re: kinda Morbid Question- alcohol, posted by rainbowbrite on May 29, 2005, at 13:03:52
> So maybe its not as bad as I was thinking....If a person has a yellow hue to them, very very faint..do you know if thats a sign of irreversible damage....actually I should read the article beofre I ask :)
So, you read the article *and* ask.
The yellow hue is jaudice. That indicates the liver is not processing broken down red blood cells properly, and a substance called bilirubin is accumulating in the body.
> > I honestly don't know of anything that shrinks the liver. It's not ringing any bells, anyway.
>
>
> Ok so maybe I got it all mixed up....Maybe their liver had expanded and then shrunk back to normal size.That could be the case. And that would be a good sign.
> I think im going to go to the source and see if I can get the facts out of them becaues now Im not sure what I heard anymore.
Good idea.
If the jaundice goes away, and the liver shrinks back down, those are both signs of good recovery.
Lar
Posted by rainbowbrite on June 2, 2005, at 17:13:39
In reply to Re: kinda Morbid Question- alcohol, posted by Larry Hoover on May 29, 2005, at 16:49:08
Ok got the info from as close to the source as I could and LOL I was so wrong...their liver grew and started to heal i guess because it was getting smaller. But everytime they drink it grows again....Do you know if this is this normal or is this a sick liver?
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 2, 2005, at 21:30:45
In reply to got it clarfified » Larry Hoover, posted by rainbowbrite on June 2, 2005, at 17:13:39
> Ok got the info from as close to the source as I could and LOL I was so wrong...their liver grew and started to heal i guess because it was getting smaller. But everytime they drink it grows again....Do you know if this is this normal or is this a sick liver?
>A vulnerable liver. A liver beat to within an inch of its life, and struggling to maintain. This person needs to quit drinking.
Lar
Posted by rainbowbrite on June 3, 2005, at 6:56:40
In reply to Re: got it clarfified » rainbowbrite, posted by Larry Hoover on June 2, 2005, at 21:30:45
yeah they really do. Thanks for all the info
rain
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 3, 2005, at 17:41:21
In reply to Re: got it clarfified » Larry Hoover, posted by rainbowbrite on June 3, 2005, at 6:56:40
> yeah they really do. Thanks for all the info
>
> rainYou're welcome. I hope this understanding can help whoever needs the help.
Lar
This is the end of the thread.
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