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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by AMD on May 16, 2005, at 17:42:41
I am a bit worried I may have been exposed to methamphetamine last week when I snorted what I thought were (several) lines of cocaine.
My question is, exactly how bad is methamphetamine? I've heard some pretty horrible things about it -- first-time use causing permanent brain changes, impossible to cure addiction and depression: side-effects that are several degrees worse than cocaine in every measure, and things from which one can never recover.
For example: I'm reading this post and, in contrast to others I've written over the past two years, it seems clear there has been a steady, although subtle, dip in my linguistic acumen. Am I being paranoid? Can I expect this to improve with time?
Why, three days after my binge, is my focus still off -- and by off I mean, my head is unable to stay focused on a page, words tumble from my keys in a confused manner, causing me to ^H^H^H several times in order to fix trivial, yet easy-to-spot-the-first-time-around, errors.
Basically ... am I going to recover from all the toxins I put into my body? And if so, how long does this recovery take? I have heard ancedotal stories that one's "mathematics" abilities are diminished by meth' and cocaine, and will never return. Is this true? Even after just a few months of weekly (heavy) use?
The other thing I've noticed is that my spelling is off ... I will blank out when trying to spell words I used to spell with ease. (See "diminish" above -- that I blanked on this, and had to resort to m-w.com, is troublesome). Is this from the recent use, and if so, can I expect my skills in this area to recover with time? Or again, is this a permanent change?
Finally -- what can I do to proactively help myself feel better. I've been drinking lots of fluids, taking vitamin B supplements and fish oil, and trying to eat regularly. But I still feel horrible. Anything short of time I can do to get my head (and mood) back into place?
Well ... I'm working on N.A. meeting #2 tonight, shooting for 30-in-30. Wish me luck on my recovery.
amd
Posted by AMD on May 16, 2005, at 19:42:41
In reply to Exactly how bad is (meth)amphetamine?, posted by AMD on May 16, 2005, at 17:42:41
Also ... my gums and teeth feel slightly numb. It's been 72 hours! Is this indicative of methamphetamine? Is cocaine even cut with methamphetamine, and if it were, is it logical to expect that I'd still be feeling these effects?
Thanks,
amd
Posted by chemist on May 22, 2005, at 4:07:15
In reply to Exactly how bad is (meth)amphetamine?, posted by AMD on May 16, 2005, at 17:42:41
hello amd, i suspect my response is not called for in light of recent events...methamphetamine - if pure, administered by a physician, and monitored - can be and is used (although i have no knowledge of a script ever being written, yet this would hardly be fodder for casual chat) sparingly or rarely.
there is something amiss, to my eye...instead of a query concerning abuse of cocaine/meth/etc., the focus is pointedly facing away from the cocaine and towards the possibility of the coke being cut with meth, which in turn leads to diminished capacity to perform mathematical exercises: the query appears to discount cocaine and focus upon meth, which may or may not be present. either one is not something to make a regular habit of, in my opinion.
the methamphetamine neurotoxicity issue has garnered more than a fair share of press, and there was at least one flurry on PB i was party to in the last year concerning 3,4-MDMA and methamphetamine (it was a rather long thread, if i recall...).
there are rather heated debates in progress - well, last i read - from former pals (ricaurte and doblin, the former being the ``con'' side, and the latter leading - i believe - the MAPS study) concerning the damage done....best to grab some pubs and do some reading. and although ricaurte et al. had the dubious ``honor'' of retracting a paper from Science in which they claimed that 3,4-MDMA administered to a small cohort of primates led to death (in two, if i recall), and loss of neuron density in certain places was highlighted; unfortunately, the primates were administered methamphetamine - not 3,4-MDMA - and say what one will, large doses of very pure methamphetamine administered to primates remains a not-so-good activity. i assume the same goes for homo sapiens of the primate variety....yours, c
> I am a bit worried I may have been exposed to methamphetamine last week when I snorted what I thought were (several) lines of cocaine.
>
> My question is, exactly how bad is methamphetamine? I've heard some pretty horrible things about it -- first-time use causing permanent brain changes, impossible to cure addiction and depression: side-effects that are several degrees worse than cocaine in every measure, and things from which one can never recover.
>
> For example: I'm reading this post and, in contrast to others I've written over the past two years, it seems clear there has been a steady, although subtle, dip in my linguistic acumen. Am I being paranoid? Can I expect this to improve with time?
>
> Why, three days after my binge, is my focus still off -- and by off I mean, my head is unable to stay focused on a page, words tumble from my keys in a confused manner, causing me to ^H^H^H several times in order to fix trivial, yet easy-to-spot-the-first-time-around, errors.
>
> Basically ... am I going to recover from all the toxins I put into my body? And if so, how long does this recovery take? I have heard ancedotal stories that one's "mathematics" abilities are diminished by meth' and cocaine, and will never return. Is this true? Even after just a few months of weekly (heavy) use?
>
> The other thing I've noticed is that my spelling is off ... I will blank out when trying to spell words I used to spell with ease. (See "diminish" above -- that I blanked on this, and had to resort to m-w.com, is troublesome). Is this from the recent use, and if so, can I expect my skills in this area to recover with time? Or again, is this a permanent change?
>
> Finally -- what can I do to proactively help myself feel better. I've been drinking lots of fluids, taking vitamin B supplements and fish oil, and trying to eat regularly. But I still feel horrible. Anything short of time I can do to get my head (and mood) back into place?
>
> Well ... I'm working on N.A. meeting #2 tonight, shooting for 30-in-30. Wish me luck on my recovery.
>
>
> amd
Posted by Trish44 on May 22, 2005, at 18:38:42
In reply to Exactly how bad is (meth)amphetamine?, posted by AMD on May 16, 2005, at 17:42:41
After using meth for three years and going to rehab 3 times (the last being 3 months) and quitting and relapsing for the next 3 years, meth is in my opinion the worst of all drugs that you could do. It has been four years that I have been clean and I still am suffering from my using days. After getting clean, I first experienced mania and then terrible, debilitating depression. I tried every antidepressant to no avail. I didn't feel like myself on or off of them. I was recently diagnosed as Bipolar. Never had this before my using days. I believe that I have both permanent damage to both my mental and physical state. I have never felt ok since. Hope that you find the will to stay away from this drug as you may cause permanent damage to your mind and body and never feel okay again. I know that is a reason why so many users go back to it again. Take care.
Posted by sunny10 on May 23, 2005, at 11:55:54
In reply to Re: Exactly how bad is (meth)amphetamine?, posted by Trish44 on May 22, 2005, at 18:38:42
try not to focus on what has already happened.
I think (I'm not a professional, I've just been reading your posts)that perhaps you are suffering primarily from anxiety right now. You wind up giving into that one drink which then leads to more of the same stuff you had been anxious about the previous week. You're already beginning to break the cycle by going to the meetings.
Focus on the 30-in-30 instead. Give yourself permission to take a break from the worrying while you deal with the stopping.
Does that sound possible?
Posted by AMD on June 12, 2005, at 15:32:34
In reply to Re: Exactly how bad is (meth)amphetamine? » AMD, posted by chemist on May 22, 2005, at 4:07:15
Does this mean, chemist, that I killed off a bunch of brain cells (potentially), if what I insufflated was in fact methamphetamine? One time can cause this type of damage? Would I recover if this were the case? Keep in mind I'm not even sure if I did in fact that methamphetamine, but I'm still freaked out about it.
amd
Posted by chemist on June 12, 2005, at 22:21:36
In reply to Re: Exactly how bad is (meth)amphetamine?, posted by AMD on June 12, 2005, at 15:32:34
> Does this mean, chemist, that I killed off a bunch of brain cells (potentially), if what I insufflated was in fact methamphetamine? One time can cause this type of damage? Would I recover if this were the case? Keep in mind I'm not even sure if I did in fact that methamphetamine, but I'm still freaked out about it.
>
> amdhello there, amd...i was wondering where you had been...i cannot in good or bad faith, in truth or not, answer your query: too many variables. as you note, the drug might well have been something altogether different than methamphetamine. if it were in fact methamphetamine, the purity, dose, your pre\"existing condition, and so forth and so on would need be considered before a verdict of ``maybe'' be returned: recall that neurons cease to function by the millions (at least) every day, unassisted by our diets, environs, and recreational activities.
it seems to me that the obsession is worse than the ``what if,'' but that is just my impression. and your vocabulary is rearing its head with vengence - was it an exorcism or a night out? - a good sign, regardless...be well, and apologies for the so-so answer....yours, c
Posted by AMD on June 15, 2005, at 14:25:26
In reply to Re: Exactly how bad is (meth)amphetamine? » AMD, posted by chemist on June 12, 2005, at 22:21:36
chemist,
I've been clean for almost a month now, and yes, in some ways I'm feeling better with each passing day. In others I feel slower -- verbal recall, mathematical abilities -- so I worry my cognitive decline (if it exists) may be unrelated to the drugs and or psychotropics. I have the inertia now to keep me from drinking, and as long as I'm actively using my mind and feeling an improvement, I'll keep it that way.
Do you or Larry know of any supplements that help with cognition? I take fish oil and vitamin B, but I've looked into gingko and alpha-GBC and wonder about their effectiveness.
Thanks,
amd
Posted by chemist on June 15, 2005, at 18:55:05
In reply to Re: Exactly how bad is (meth)amphetamine? » chemist, posted by AMD on June 15, 2005, at 14:25:26
> chemist,
>
> I've been clean for almost a month now, and yes, in some ways I'm feeling better with each passing day. In others I feel slower -- verbal recall, mathematical abilities -- so I worry my cognitive decline (if it exists) may be unrelated to the drugs and or psychotropics. I have the inertia now to keep me from drinking, and as long as I'm actively using my mind and feeling an improvement, I'll keep it that way.
>
> Do you or Larry know of any supplements that help with cognition? I take fish oil and vitamin B, but I've looked into gingko and alpha-GBC and wonder about their effectiveness.
>
> Thanks,
>
> amd
>hello there, amd...that's great news in re: the one-month mark! the question concerning abovementioned supplements/alternatives is, of course, best addressed by Larry - currently in the penalty box (see Admin for details) - and i am not capable of filling his shoes (in many regards). if you are interested in nootropics that are more of the pharma variety - such as the 2-pyrrolidinones, AChE/ChE inhibitors, and so forth - i would be happy to share what i know...yours, c
Posted by AMD on June 15, 2005, at 21:36:19
In reply to Re: Exactly how bad is (meth)amphetamine? » AMD, posted by chemist on June 15, 2005, at 18:55:05
Always interested in the nootropics, chemist, particularly those whose effectiveness is backed by clinical evidence.
Let's define "nootropic." I assume the term implies "smart drug," not merely "brain cell regeneration." But I'm curious as to its more technical definition.
I know lithium, for example, increases grey matter in the brain, but I suspect many wouldn't call it a smart drug! (I am curious, however, whether short-term or low-dose lithium augmentation -- either in healthy or bipolar population -- does has some positive effect, either during or post-use of the drug. i.e., can I take the drug for a month to repair some acute damage?
Thanks chemist
amd
Posted by Declan on June 16, 2005, at 18:06:08
In reply to Re: Exactly how bad is (meth)amphetamine?, posted by AMD on June 15, 2005, at 21:36:19
There are some doctors in the alternative health sector who recommend lithium for this purpose, or something like it. Can't remember who. I assume in low doses.
Declan
Posted by AMD on June 26, 2005, at 17:48:32
In reply to Re: Exactly how bad is (meth)amphetamine?, posted by Declan on June 16, 2005, at 18:06:08
Do you guys have any insight into this?
amd
Posted by katenicoleroz on February 1, 2008, at 1:49:20
In reply to Exactly how bad is (meth)amphetamine?, posted by AMD on May 16, 2005, at 17:42:41
OK Cocaine for me is much worse than meth, and effects of doing it once= 0
Posted by Phoenix1 on February 13, 2008, at 7:54:02
In reply to Re: Exactly how bad is (meth)amphetamine?, posted by katenicoleroz on February 1, 2008, at 1:49:20
> OK Cocaine for me is much worse than meth, and effects of doing it once= 0
I don't have any experience with cocaine or meth, but just wanted to welcome you to psychobabble! Please feel free to post on any topic. I look forward to seeing you around!
Phoenix1
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