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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 27. Go back in thread:
Posted by alexandra_k on August 19, 2005, at 22:17:00
In reply to Re: pact » alexandra_k, posted by Declan on August 19, 2005, at 17:02:09
> Alexandra, what are your classes? There are *some* people, I'm not one of them, who are oddly competant when stoned. You probably know some people like this.
LOL! I don't really know anyone who is competant while stoned. I know a fair few people who think they are competent while stoned, though ;-)
Classes were me covering for one of the other tutors. 'Four principles in health care decision making': autonomy, beneficience, non-maleficence, justice. Just looked at a couple case studies where the guidelines suggested different courses of action and let 'em at it arguing about which principle should take priority when they come into conflict.
Autonomy vs paternalism mostly...
> Nice weather in NZ? Lovely here, coldest August in years. Snow in Hobart, sleet on the Border Ranges, between Qld and NSW.Weather isn't bad at all. Warmest winter in... 50 years or something. Earliest spring we have seen in a long time too. Wonder what the summer is going to be like...
Where abouts are you?? I didn't click that you are an Aussie.
No saying 'mate' in parliament - I was hearing that on the news last night. Unbelievable!!!
Posted by Declan on August 19, 2005, at 23:23:21
In reply to Re: pact » Declan, posted by alexandra_k on August 19, 2005, at 22:17:00
Ah, the political class. Don't you love'em?
I live near Bangalow in northern NSW.
Declan
Posted by alexandra_k on August 19, 2005, at 23:57:22
In reply to Re: pact, posted by Declan on August 19, 2005, at 23:23:21
> Ah, the political class. Don't you love'em?
er... dear I say not really? its part of social and moral philosophy and im not so keen on ethics and in particular not so keen on applied ethics. meta-ethics is better (imo) but we don't really get to that till third year...
it was nice to do those tuts though. i realised that i do miss it a bit. and there are some really keen students there. keen students are terrific :-)
> I live near Bangalow in northern NSW.hmm. trying to think where that would be... not so good on geography...
dare i say... between sydney and brisbane??
hoping to move to canberra in january.
have to watch me 'mate's
:-)
Posted by Declan on August 20, 2005, at 1:15:35
In reply to Re: pact » Declan, posted by alexandra_k on August 19, 2005, at 23:57:22
Going to Canberra? I like Canberra. Nice climate, lots of facilities, not too many people. Bangalow is near Byron Bay, 180 km south of Brisbane. You going to a university there?
Declan
Posted by gromit on August 20, 2005, at 3:55:21
In reply to Re: pact » alexandra_k, posted by Declan on August 19, 2005, at 17:02:09
> Alexandra, what are your classes? There are *some* people, I'm not one of them, who are oddly competant when stoned. You probably know some people like this.
Sorry to interrupt but I resemble your sentence. Give me a ritalin and I'm singing kumbaya and looking for the twinkies. Give me a few bong hits and watch me go. Wait, do you have twinkies there? A delightful mixture of sugar, preservatives and some filler to bind them.
Rick
Posted by alexandra_k on August 20, 2005, at 8:05:40
In reply to Re: pact, posted by gromit on August 20, 2005, at 3:55:21
> > Alexandra, what are your classes? There are *some* people, I'm not one of them, who are oddly competant when stoned. You probably know some people like this.
> Sorry to interrupt but I resemble your sentence. Give me a ritalin and I'm singing kumbaya and looking for the twinkies. Give me a few bong hits and watch me go. Wait, do you have twinkies there? A delightful mixture of sugar, preservatives and some filler to bind them.
LOL!!!
No - we don't have twinkies. I think... People over this side of the planet probably wouldn't touch 'em. I've heard about them... No offence or nothing ;-)
The closest we probably get is a doughnut.
Thats not a round one with a hole in the middle but a long one with icing on it that is filled with jam and whipped cream...
We are fairly fond of dairy (given all the cows etc) and mostly don't like dairy substitutes (though are moving to olive oil and olive oil spreads)
But then there are always exceptions...Hmm... Competent while stoned...
Doesn't it depend on what you have to do?
I mean... Driving is mostly okay
But how about studying
Or something like that????
Posted by alexandra_k on August 20, 2005, at 8:07:56
In reply to Re: pact » alexandra_k, posted by Declan on August 20, 2005, at 1:15:35
> Going to Canberra? I like Canberra. Nice climate, lots of facilities, not too many people. Bangalow is near Byron Bay, 180 km south of Brisbane. You going to a university there?
Ah. I've heard of Byron Bay :-)
Yeah, uni hopefully (assuming I get in)
Otherwise I won't be going
Yeah, its not too bad.
Kind of a more upmarket version of where I live (Hamilton NZ)
Bout the same number of people
Similar absence of a beach
But the facilities are rather nicer
:-)
Posted by Declan on August 20, 2005, at 15:56:02
In reply to Re: pact » Declan, posted by alexandra_k on August 20, 2005, at 8:07:56
Canberra uni? ANU?
There are all these interesting courses and institutes at ANU. Like the Instite of Land Warfare, Foreign policy outfits, Islamic studies, all sorts of things.
Declan
Posted by alexandra_k on August 20, 2005, at 16:26:37
In reply to Re: pact » alexandra_k, posted by Declan on August 20, 2005, at 15:56:02
Er... anu yeah.
research schools...
and hopefully its bye bye to the undergrads
:-)
Posted by alexandra_k on August 20, 2005, at 16:50:11
In reply to Re: pact » Declan, posted by alexandra_k on August 20, 2005, at 16:26:37
> and hopefully its bye bye to the undergrads
> :-)sorry... i should explain that. most undergrads don't care. we get a lot on student exchange programs from the us or canada and asia etc. some of them are here on their oe. they do a lot of travelling and drinking (drinking age being 18) and they do bugger all work. most of the courses aren't even credited to their degrees back home, so why bother?
and there is a general attitude of complacency... people feel that they 'should' do one degree before hitting the workforce. but they don't really care about the subject.
and we get a lot taking phil. papers because they think it sounds like an interesting and fun option. and philosophy turns out to be a little harder than they had supposed... its not just sitting around chatting about the meaning of life...
and... though this is changing... there used to be a 'bums on seats' funding policy. that means pressure to pass students. so there are more bums on seats the following year. i am appalled at what constitutes a pass. especially when you can tell from tutorials that someone has ability but chooses to do an assignment in the half hour before it is due and they manage to scrape a pass.
but now its becoming pbrf funding. thats publication based research funding. and now our uni is going down the toilet after having worried about bums on seats for so long.
i hate that.
i hate it that i worked my *ss off at this stupid institution.
but that being the best here is worth precisely nothing anywhere else.
and that my grades here are worthless.
and that i spend so long trying to understand the views of people whos peers dont even credit them all that much.and that i spend my time trying to reinforce what they choose to put in the course outline. even when i disagree with what they are saying sometimes, and when i see students come up with really good points that they pass over because they don't even understand what the students are saying.
officemate (who got a contract lecturing post last semester) says its a lot different when you get to be the lecturer. because you get to decide what to teach. being a tutor you are just a general dogsbody really.
i enjoy the students who are genuinely interested
as for the rest of them...
maybe this is harsh...
but they are just wasting my time.
Posted by Declan on August 20, 2005, at 18:08:47
In reply to Re: pact, posted by alexandra_k on August 20, 2005, at 16:50:11
Hey Alexandra, you know stuff about Beckett (sp?)? What about Krapp's Last Tape? Good? Something I read years ago made me want to get it. I read what you wrote to Matt on the SB.
Declan
Posted by alexandra_k on August 20, 2005, at 18:42:04
In reply to Re: pact » alexandra_k, posted by Declan on August 20, 2005, at 18:08:47
> Hey Alexandra, you know stuff about Beckett
Not a whole heap. Studied Happy Days in a first year english lit paper. Read "Waiting for Godot" off my own bat. I think most people like that one more. It is true that it is an easier read (happy days is mostly stage directions) but I prefered happy days.
Waiting for Godot is about waiting...
For... well... different theorists differ... but probably god.
But mostly its just about waiting...
for something that never turns up.>What about Krapp's Last Tape? Good?
I'm not sure... I think it is ringing a bell (lol!). I tried to get my hands on everything and did a trawl of the second hand bookshops. The one I really wanted that I couldn't find was "Endgame". That one sounds really terrific. I wasn't all that impressed with the other stuff of his that I read. Don't remember whether that one was among them... I think it was... Moved from Beckett to Camus "The Stranger" and Camus plays and Sartre's plays. "The End of the Road" is (IMO) worth a look too. And the other stuff by John Barth.
All I know about Beckett...
Is he was one unhappy man
Who was plagued with all sorts of nasty physical complaints...
Boils and pain and co.
Posted by alexandra_k on August 20, 2005, at 19:01:21
In reply to Re: pact » Declan, posted by alexandra_k on August 20, 2005, at 18:42:04
And I just love...
T.S. Elliot.
Possibly because he was a philosopher too
(Wrote a PhD on Bradley)"The Wasteland" was great...
"Four Quartets" is a masterpeace
"The Love Song of J Alfred Prufrock" is my favourite poem :-)And... He wrote brilliant plays too :-)
I got into plays...
I read the End of the Road... There was a character there (Jack Horner - little jack horner that sat in the corner...) who had a touch of paralysis. he would get to thinking... and be unable to act.
he goes to see this (dodgey / brilliant) doctor / psychiatrist / crank who prescribes arbitrary principles for action:
e.g., if the alternatives present themselves side by side choose the one on the left
if the alternatives present themselves in sequence choose the first
(unfortunately there are no meta-principles of what to do when they conflict...)anyways... he has to read the world almanac. because it is filled with facts. and sometimes paralysis can result when we do not know the answer.
he isn't allowed to read anything but the almanac and plays plays plays
action!
plays are supposed to help cure his inactionand so...
i tried it for a time myself...
;-)
And then of course...
He wrote the poems that were turned into the musical "Cats"
Posted by alexandra_k on August 20, 2005, at 19:06:14
In reply to Re: pact, posted by alexandra_k on August 20, 2005, at 19:01:21
i know i can...
should
1 think
2 post
oops
Posted by Declan on August 20, 2005, at 19:20:12
In reply to Re: pact » Declan, posted by alexandra_k on August 20, 2005, at 18:42:04
Kind of inspiring though. Endgame, yeah maybe I was gonna read that once too. Now I tend to just sit and stare a lot. Happy Days eh? I really liked the Todd Solondz movie called Happiness.
Declan
Posted by Declan on August 20, 2005, at 19:22:37
In reply to Re: pact, posted by alexandra_k on August 20, 2005, at 19:01:21
Hey Alex, don't get me started on TS Eliot or King Lear. I particularly like East Coker, the third section, I think starting O dark dark dark...
Must run
Declan
Posted by alexandra_k on August 20, 2005, at 19:51:52
In reply to Re: pact, posted by Declan on August 20, 2005, at 19:22:37
:-)
Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow
creeps in this petty pace from day to day
to the last syllable of recorded time
and all our yesterdays have lighted fools
the way to dusty death
out out brief candle
life is but a walking shadow a poor player
that struts and frets his hour upon the stage
and then is heard no more
tis a tale told by an idiot
full of sound and fury
signifying nothing.i do believe thats lear in the storm...
(though it might possibly be from hamlet)i just love the fool
lear's fooland near the end of the love song of j alfred prufrock i do believe there is an appearance from lears fool...
lets see if i can remember...
am not prince hamlet
nor was meant to be
am an attendant
one that will do
to start a progress
swell a scene or two... something something...
even at times the fool.
i reckon thats lears fool.
'have come from the dead come to tell you all i shall tell you all'
and the fool was wise.
and so is prufrock...
hmm.
hmm.
have a good day :-)
Posted by Declan on August 21, 2005, at 0:30:50
In reply to Re: pact » Declan, posted by alexandra_k on August 20, 2005, at 19:51:52
What do you do anyway, Alex?
The first one is from Macbeth just after he hears that his wife is dead.
But Lear, especially the spoken play version done for Paul Scofield's 80th birthday! Put it on, light up a joint, turn off the lights, and listen.
It's wonderful.
Declan
Posted by alexandra_k on August 21, 2005, at 15:39:50
In reply to Re: pact, posted by Declan on August 21, 2005, at 0:30:50
> What do you do anyway, Alex?
writing my masters thesis.
philosophy of mind / psychology.
> The first one is from Macbeth just after he hears that his wife is dead.Ah, Macbeth! I must remember that all the way back to the sixth form (is this a dagger I see before me?????).
> But Lear, especially the spoken play version done for Paul Scofield's 80th birthday! Put it on, light up a joint, turn off the lights, and listen.
Ooh. Lear stoned. Might be worth a try ;-)
Thanks for that...Are you into plays?
Have you read Marlowe's Faust?
How about Amadeus?????
Posted by Declan on August 21, 2005, at 16:30:22
In reply to Re: pact » Declan, posted by alexandra_k on August 21, 2005, at 15:39:50
Hi Alex
Never read Marlowe's Faust or Thoma Mann's Dr Faustas, or The Magic Mountain (why not, why not??).
Philosophy of mind eh? I woulda liked to study theology or diplomacy. So you're going to continue yours at ANU?saw 2 kinda philosophical films, 'This Waking Life' and 'Coffee and Cigarettes'. The first was like living in a shared house with all these philosophy students taking acid. Made me feel quite nostalgic.
My son was doing Lear for his HSC, so I bought the tape and enjoyed it with him. I know half the play off by heart, being a monomaniac.
Declan
Posted by alexandra_k on August 21, 2005, at 17:02:11
In reply to Re: pact, posted by Declan on August 21, 2005, at 16:30:22
Faust is teriffic (imo). About making a bargain with the devil... wonderful :-)
Yeah... Have to apply and see where I get in to study. But yeah, I really really want to go there. Just kind of put that option on hold to see whether I'd manage to get into the US. But... No go :-( I'll just have to wait and see... Need to be working on a plan C really... So I won't be destroyed if I don't get in... Possibly Canada... And I guess I should apply to a couple other places in Aussie too. But yeah, I really want to go there. I've read quite a bit of the work of people who are studying there. And they are fairly naturally into what I'm doing. When I was there before they asked what I was into and I said 'mind' and they just cracked up: 'who isn't???' and its like that over there. and so... i just feel at home :-)> saw 2 kinda philosophical films, 'This Waking Life' and 'Coffee and Cigarettes'.
I haven't seen either of those.. Philosophical films... Have you seen the Matrix??? Theres Descartes evil genius argument right there. How do you know you are not in the Matrix?
> My son was doing Lear for his HSC, so I bought the tape and enjoyed it with him. I know half the play off by heart, being a monomaniac.:-)
Its a great play.
I miss English...
Just came into a conflict of views from within the dept.
I was looking for universals. Universal themes. What the work has to tell us about the universal human condition. They didn't like that so much. They thoguht the social / political / economic / historical context was crucial for understanding the work.I found what I was looking for in philosophy :-)
So that was that.
But I do like English lit.
I wish I had more time to read plays :-)
Posted by Declan on August 21, 2005, at 19:01:41
In reply to Re: pact » Declan, posted by alexandra_k on August 21, 2005, at 17:02:11
There was nothing, with the exceptions of psychology and sociology that was more disappointing than English at uni. I solved this problem by doing a double major in History, which at least is a real subject. English could be too if.....well, doing the Russians first would be a start.
Declan
Posted by alexandra_k on August 21, 2005, at 19:22:09
In reply to Re: pact, posted by Declan on August 21, 2005, at 19:01:41
> There was nothing, with the exceptions of psychology and sociology that was more disappointing than English at uni.
LOL! Psychology did turn out to be a little different than most most people supposed...
What I say to everyone I meet is: 'what you really want to do is philosophy of mind. see... whatever it is you think you want from psychology... you will find it at grad level but why put yourself through that??? you can find it much sooner in philosophy of mind'.
But then it depends what one wants from psychology I suppose...
i wanted to learn about beliefs and desires and emotions and consciousness. about human beings and the world and our relation to the world. how we evolved. what its for. and i found that :-)
so sociology is a no-go then??? i know a couple people who really got into it. i remember crashing a lecture on the 'family friendly workplace' but not really my cup of tea...
>I solved this problem by doing a double major in History, which at least is a real subject. English could be too if.....well, doing the Russians first would be a start.
history... hmm. i started out with a double degree bachelor of education (secondary / high school level) and a bachelor of arts in english lit / history.
could only take one semester of education. 5% credit for being able to find books in the library...
loved philosophy. was thinking history might be ancient history which might be like classics. learning ancient mythology and architecture and plays and stuff... not so. military strategy of alexander the great. not my cup of tea...
Posted by Declan on August 21, 2005, at 20:06:08
In reply to Re: pact, posted by alexandra_k on August 21, 2005, at 19:22:09
I wanted to learn about conciousness. And did a lot of analytic psychotherapy (Winnicott style). Which was how I handled it. I've always liked reading about wars though. Not realler than anything else, I guess, but good for depressives. To contemplate how....how was it possible.
Archeology might have been fun. I went to uni in 1970 and the zeitgeist told us to do sociology. Nobody was interested as it turned out and read about Marx and Freud, which was a fair bit better. Until Foucault and so on came but I'd stopped paying arrention by then.
Declan
Posted by alexandra_k on August 21, 2005, at 20:22:49
In reply to Re: pact, posted by Declan on August 21, 2005, at 20:06:08
> I wanted to learn about conciousness.
You still can...
Consciousness is great :-)
Most especially qualia (short for 'qualitative states' the seems or felt quality.)
Its a hard problem to figure out why on earth there is something that it is like to be us.
What on earth is it for???
Why couldn't we function the same but there be nothing at all that it is like to be us?
Surely it is possible that there be a world that is a molecule for molecule duplicate of this world...
Where you have a counterpart that does exactly what you do
Who says exactly what you say
But who has no conscious experience whatsoever.
But then what hope is there of giving a naturalist / materialist (consistent with the natural sciences) account of consciousness?
It can't be for anything if it doesn't have a function...>And did a lot of analytic psychotherapy (Winnicott style).
Now that sounds really interesting. I'd love to learn more about different psychodynamic / psychoanalytic theories.
>I've always liked reading about wars though. Not realler than anything else, I guess, but good for depressives. To contemplate how....how was it possible.
Yeah. I get you.
I liked to worry about how I might just be a brain in a vat...
Or in a coma...
Or maybe I was the only conscious person in the whole universe...
:-)
Appealling for people who aren't so fond of reality...> Archeology might have been fun.
ANU have a pretty good archeology dept. there is someone there who does phil. of archeology. its thought to be a part of phil. of science... interesting...
deals with retrodictions (predictions about the past) instead of predictions (about the future) which is kind of cool.
a cause has multiple effects. so there are more than one downstream effects. if you have a hypothesis abotu something happening in the past (a retrodiction) then that should deductively imply multiple downstream effects... and you can simulate conditions over thousands of years in a couple months in the lab. interesting to hear about how they take certain kinds of rocks and mimic conditions of compression and movement etc to see whether rocks broke as opposed to people smashed them to make tools etc.
I'd quite to do biology. evolutionary biology in particular. learn about how the universe started and evolved. why various abilities / features evolved. especially language and cognition. and different mental abilities. the function of different parts of the brain etc.
>I went to uni in 1970 and the zeitgeist told us to do sociology. Nobody was interested as it turned out and read about Marx and Freud, which was a fair bit better. Until Foucault and so on came but I'd stopped paying arrention by then.
lol! Haven't read any marx. read a little freud. not much admittedly. mostly beginners guides to type stuff... Foucault is meant to be interesting...
I'd like to read James. thats on my one day not so far in the future list. stream of consciouness. dunno where the flashlight attention metaphor came from but i'd like to know that one too
:-)
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