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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Responsible_Citizen on January 28, 2006, at 17:17:56
Principles of Responsible Cannabis Use
* No Driving
* Set and Setting
* Resist Abuse
* Respect Rights of OthersWhen marijuana is enjoyed responsibly, subjecting users to harsh criminal and civil penalties provides no public benefit and causes terrible injustices. For reasons of public safety, public health, economics and justice, the prohibition laws should be repealed to the extent that they criminalize responsible marijuana use.
By adoption of this statement, the NORML Board of Directors has attempted to define "responsible cannabis use."
I. Adults Only
Cannabis consumption is for adults only. It is irresponsible to provide cannabis to children.Many things and activities are suitable for young people, but others absolutely are not. Children do not drive cars, enter into contracts, or marry, and they must not use drugs. As it is unrealistic to demand lifetime abstinence from cars, contracts and marriage, however, it is unrealistic to expect lifetime abstinence from all intoxicants, including alcohol. Rather, our expectation and hope for young people is that they grow up to be responsible adults. Our obligation to them is to demonstrate what that means.
II. No Driving
The responsible cannabis consumer does not operate a motor vehicle or other dangerous machinery while impaired by cannabis, nor (like other responsible citizens) while impaired by any other substance or condition, including some medicines and fatigue.Although cannabis is said by most experts to be safer than alcohol and many prescription drugs with motorists, responsible cannabis consumers never operate motor vehicles in an impaired condition. Public safety demands not only that impaired drivers be taken off the road, but that objective measures of impairment be developed and used, rather than chemical testing.
III. Set and Setting
The responsible cannabis user will carefully consider his/her set and setting, regulating use accordingly."Set" refers to the consumer's values, attitudes, experience and personality, and "setting" means the consumer's physical and social circumstances. The responsible cannabis consumer will be vigilant as to conditions -- time, place, mood, etc. -- and does not hesitate to say "no" when those conditions are not conducive to a safe, pleasant and/or productive experience.
IV. Resist Abuse
Use of cannabis, to the extent that it impairs health, personal development or achievement, is abuse, to be resisted by responsible cannabis users.Abuse means harm. Some cannabis use is harmful; most is not. That which is harmful should be discouraged; that which is not need not be.
Wars have been waged in the name of eradicating "drug abuse", but instead of focusing on abuse, enforcement measures have been diluted by targeting all drug use, whether abusive or not. If marijuana abuse is to be targeted, it is essential that clear standards be developed to identify it.
V. Respect Rights of Others
The responsible cannabis user does not violate the rights of others, observes accepted standards of courtesy and public propriety, and respects the preferences of those who wish to avoid cannabis entirely.No one may violate the rights of others, and no substance use excuses any such violation. Regardless of the legal status of cannabis, responsible users will adhere to emerging tobacco smoking protocols in public and private places.
Adopted by the NORML Board of Directors
February 3, 1996
Washington, DCupdated: Apr 11, 2003
Posted by alexandra_k on January 28, 2006, at 23:07:05
In reply to Principles of Responsible Cannabis Use, posted by Responsible_Citizen on January 28, 2006, at 17:17:56
they ran a study in new zealand...
doesn't affect driving ability...
except that...
you tend to be more cautious / defensive than usual and also drive a little slower
so if anything...
the study showed... it was a good thing.
that being said i don't know how very stoned they were...
i would never drive on it. in fact... i won't even bike if i'm really smashed.
i won't tell you about tripping around the country on lsd though...
probably irresponsible...
but amazing memories there...
just amazing...cops over here turn a blind eye to driving while stoned
not so with driving while drunk
Posted by alexandra_k on January 28, 2006, at 23:08:41
In reply to Principles of Responsible Cannabis Use, posted by Responsible_Citizen on January 28, 2006, at 17:17:56
sorry... not operate while *impaired* yup, i agree.
are you *impared* on lsd do ya think???
Posted by James K on January 29, 2006, at 1:15:49
In reply to Re: Principles of Responsible Cannabis Use, posted by alexandra_k on January 28, 2006, at 23:08:41
> sorry... not operate while *impaired* yup, i agree.
>
> are you *impared* on lsd do ya think???I'm sitting very still trying not to touch myself and making sure that my thoughts and my voice do not become one. Maybe that's impaired. Maybe that's just uptight.
I was an amazing drunk driver, but there is no way I would drive even a little bit stoned. I wouldn't even drunk drive now. In my day, they'd let us go home. Now it's jail and loss of license. I'm not trying to make light. When some person kills a family driving the wrong way on the freeway every weekend, I wonder how they could suck so much at being a drunk.
This is going nowhere.
Goodnight,
James K
Posted by James K on January 29, 2006, at 1:21:29
In reply to Re: Principles of Responsible Cannabis Use » alexandra_k, posted by James K on January 29, 2006, at 1:15:49
I think I was having some euphoric recall. I'm sober and am not actually proud of all the drunk driving I did when I was young. I'm just damn lucky.
James k
Posted by deirdrehbrt on January 29, 2006, at 9:24:23
In reply to Principles of Responsible Cannabis Use, posted by Responsible_Citizen on January 28, 2006, at 17:17:56
I used to drink an entire bottle of wine and think I was a fine driver. I was certain I wasn't impaired. I think that's part of the insidious nature of substance use (abuse), we begin to believe that we're not impaired when in fact, we are.
As far as responsible drug use, I think that there are people who can drink responsibly. These are the people who can have 1/2 a glass of wine. I'm the sort who would finish that 12 glass for them. They can buy a bottle of wine at dinner and leave half of it. I cannot. I have to finish all of what there is to drink. I liked other substances because I could drink more with them.
As far as legalizing pot though, I don't know. There was a time when recreational drug use was legal. Maybe we could look at how it affected society then. Those days did give us the writings of Poe, among others.
I don't think that the average user would become addicted, but there is a segment of society who will become so, and who will progress from pot, looking for that better high. Though NORML might say that pot isn't really a stepping-stone drug, none of the people I know who use the harder drugs didn't start with pot.
NORML also speaks about standing against abuse. The problem with this is the same as with alcohol; if someone, like me, is an alcoholic, no amount of preaching or teaching is going to prevent it. If I drink, I'm going to abuse it. If someone is addicted to pot, coke, whatever, if they use, they will abuse. Teaching responsible use isn't going to teach the person who will becomne addicted to use responsibly.
The dream of almost every alcoholic is to drink "normally". I doubt that's any different for any other recreational drug abuser. The sad fact is though, that we aren't "normal", whatever that is.
NORML says that pot should be for adults only, and I agree. The problem is that the more adults that have it, the more children will get it. Cigarettes are for adults only, but there are lots of kids smoking. Alcohol is for adults only, but I've met quite a few people in A.A. who aren't even of legal drinking age yet. If you truly want to keep kids from smoking pot, you certainly aren't going to do so by legalizing it. Kids who want to use will always be able to find an adult to buy for them.
I'm not saying that marajuana shouldn't be legalized, I just think that we should look at arguments critically.
-- Dee
Posted by TexasChic on January 31, 2006, at 20:35:53
In reply to Re: Principles of Responsible Cannabis Use, posted by deirdrehbrt on January 29, 2006, at 9:24:23
> Though NORML might say that pot isn't really a stepping-stone drug, none of the people I know who use the harder drugs didn't start with pot.
None of the people I know who use pot didn't start with alcohol, but its not illegal.
> NORML says that pot should be for adults only, and I agree. The problem is that the more adults that have it, the more children will get it. Cigarettes are for adults only, but there are lots of kids smoking. Alcohol is for adults only, but I've met quite a few people in A.A. who aren't even of legal drinking age yet. If you truly want to keep kids from smoking pot, you certainly aren't going to do so by legalizing it.
But it sure does make it more attractive by making it illegal!
>Kids who want to use will always be able to find an adult to buy for them.
Always, whether legal or not. I think prohibition proved that making something illegal is not the answer.
> I'm not saying that marajuana shouldn't be legalized, I just think that we should look at arguments critically.
Definitely. But I don't think these arguments are what is being discussed by those who have the ability to make a change. Its money, money, money. Keeping it illegal keeps certain people rich.
I've always felt that our society focuses on what should or should not be legal, when the real focus should be on 'do we really want the government to control our consumption of products that aren't good for us?' If you do it for pot, what's to stop them from making cigarettes illegal. And if they're illegal, what's next, alcohol, fast food? It seems people are all for the government stepping in when its something they agree on, but what they don't seem to realize is that they've paved the way for control of things they may not agree on.
I'm not trying to dismiss your thoughts deirdrehbrt, I just wanted to provide my viewpoint. Hopefully if came off sounding that way. I'm always worried about inadvertantly offending someone.
-T
Posted by deirdrehbrt on January 31, 2006, at 23:54:04
In reply to Re: Principles of Responsible Cannabis Use » deirdrehbrt, posted by TexasChic on January 31, 2006, at 20:35:53
-T
You didn't sound dismissive at all. I think that you had good and valid questions to what I was saying. It helps me eithier solidify or modify my own thoughts and positions.
I think that at heart, I'm either a liberal democrat or a libertarian. I don't like the government taking control over individual lives. Though personally against abortion for convenience, I absolutely don't think it should be illegal.
I think that drug use should be a personal decision. Given that, I think it should be an informed decision. I have no idea of how to properly educate people though.
I don't know what drugs should be legalized or remain illegal. Some are extremely addictive and some are deadly. If we legalize pot, do we legalize other drugs? Opium, Cocaine, etc?
I do know that I'm tired of the government forever encroaching more and more into our personal lives. There has to be a balance between safety and liberty. I don't think we should be legislating morality except where it affects another's safety or liberty. Drunk driving laws are fine. Making drinking illegal is not.
That's where I'm at.
BTW....
When I mentioned that the people I know who used harder drugs started with pot first, I wasn't making a case for not legalizing pot. What I was saying was that I disagree with NORML who says that pot isn't a stepping-stone drug. I think it is a stepping-stone drug for some people, and those people are the ones who are using the harder drugs now. Maybe not all of them, but I would bet that most of them started with pot, and to your point, alcohol before that.
--Dee
Posted by TexasChic on February 1, 2006, at 16:04:45
In reply to Re: Principles of Responsible Cannabis Use, posted by deirdrehbrt on January 31, 2006, at 23:54:04
> You didn't sound dismissive at all. I think that you had good and valid questions to what I was saying. It helps me eithier solidify or modify my own thoughts and positions.
Thanks. I'm always hesitant to start a conversation with someone on something controversial. Its so easy to misunderstand in this environment where we can't see or hear each other.
> I think that at heart, I'm either a liberal democrat or a libertarian. I don't like the government taking control over individual lives. Though personally against abortion for convenience, I absolutely don't think it should be illegal.
Ditto! I have my issues with abortion, but I don't think that means making it illegal is the answer.
> I think that drug use should be a personal decision. Given that, I think it should be an informed decision. I have no idea of how to properly educate people though.
They could educate in the same way they do about nicotine and alcoholism. Except they really aren't doing such a great job with those two come to think of it.
> I don't know what drugs should be legalized or remain illegal. Some are extremely addictive and some are deadly. If we legalize pot, do we legalize other drugs? Opium, Cocaine, etc?
My personal opinion is they should all be legalized. People with drug problems should get help, not go to jail. Legalizing them isn't the same as condoning them. Cigarettes are legal, but no one condones them. And it doesn't really make sense that alcohol, which is man made is legal, while pot, which is natural is illegal. Legalization would just be righting a wrong in our justice system, like when they repealed the prohibition law.
> I do know that I'm tired of the government forever encroaching more and more into our personal lives. There has to be a balance between safety and liberty. I don't think we should be legislating morality except where it affects another's safety or liberty. Drunk driving laws are fine. Making drinking illegal is not.
Drunk driving is putting other people in danger, just as driving while under the influence of drugs would. That shouldn't be allowed any more than someone running around randomly shooting a gun all over the place.
The thing that gets me is, our government sees no problem with us eating ourselves into an early grave, so why are they suddenly so concerned when it comes to DRUGS being harmful?
Money. Its alllllll about money.
The bigwigs high up in the chain of gov probably have a good laugh at how gullible the public is.
-T
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 4, 2006, at 15:59:35
In reply to Principles of Responsible Cannabis Use, posted by Responsible_Citizen on January 28, 2006, at 17:17:56
> Principles of Responsible Cannabis Use
Please don't post under more than one name at the same time. If for any reason you feel you need to change your posting name, follow these steps:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#names
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by deirdrehbrt on February 7, 2006, at 21:22:42
In reply to Re: Principles of Responsible Cannabis Use » deirdrehbrt, posted by TexasChic on February 1, 2006, at 16:04:45
T.
I guess it looks like we're in at least the same chapter, if not on the same page on this one. Thanks for helping me think about things.
--D
Posted by OgO on March 4, 2006, at 14:35:00
In reply to Re: Principles of Responsible Cannabis Use » Responsible_Citizen, posted by alexandra_k on January 28, 2006, at 23:07:05
I'm 28 and been smoking pot for years. I ocasionaly have gotten the "green fever" (shortness of breath, dizziness, etc...) I started taking lustral last week and after a few days I smoked a joint witha friend and couldnt walk straight, couldnt breath and even passed out for a minute or two. I also get headaches and the other side effects. Do these go away? Will I be able to smoke pot anymore?
Posted by TexasChic on March 10, 2006, at 23:52:47
In reply to Question about canabis use together with lustral??, posted by OgO on March 4, 2006, at 14:35:00
There's really no way of knowing since its something that hasn't been tested. But even if it was, no one in the medical community really knows why certain meds do what they do anyway. At this point all we have is trial and error. If you decide to try it again, do so in a safe place.
BTW, did you drink alcohol that night? That's kind of what it sounds like when I've had a alcohol + meds negative reaction.
-T
This is the end of the thread.
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