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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pseudoname on August 1, 2006, at 8:25:36
The UK government commissioned a scientific study of data on recreational drugs to find out just how dangerous each really is, considering the “addictive qualities, social harm and physical damage” of each. The study “produced strikingly different results from the Government’s drug classification system”.
• “Drug ‘classes’ have little link to the dangers” by Nigel Morris. London Independent, Aug 1 ’06 http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health_medical/article1207620.eceIn ranked order beginning with the most dangerous
# UK recreational users / # UK deaths in 20041. heroin 40,000 users / 744 deaths
2. cocaine 800,000 / 147
3. barbituates ‘not many’ / 14
4. methadone 20,000 / 200
5. alcohol ‘most adults’ / 20,000
6. ketamine ‘unknown’ / NA
7. benzodiazepines 160,000 / 206
8. amphetamines 650,000 / 33
9. tobacco 12,500,000 / 114,000
10. buprenorphine (Subutex, Suboxone) ‘unknown’ / NA
11. cannabis 3,000,000 / 16
12. solvents 37,000 / 53
13. 4-MTA (amphetamine derivative) ‘unknown’ / NA
14. LSD 70,000 / NA
15. methylphenidate (Ritalin, Metadate) ‘unknown’ / NA
16. anabolic steroids 38,000 / NA
17. GHB (‘date-rape’ drug) ‘not many’ / 3
18. ecstasy (MDMA) 800,000 / 33
19. alkyl nitrites (poppers) 550,000 / NA
20. khat 40,000 / ‘not many’This link gives a little more description of each drug and the current UK street price: http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health_medical/article1207619.ece
I don't know how they manage to find buprenorphine, a safe, medically-prescribed medication with an unknown number of supposedly recreational users and presumably no deaths, “more dangerous” than unquestionably brain-damaging and lethal SOLVENTS.
Also, is there no crystal meth in the UK?
Posted by Estella on August 1, 2006, at 9:12:36
In reply to ranking ‘most-dangerous’ drugs, posted by pseudoname on August 1, 2006, at 8:25:36
I wonder how they came up with those...
> 6. ketamine ‘unknown’ / NA
Given the 'unknown' and 'NA' how come they figure it is dangerous?
> 8. amphetamines 650,000 / 33
Crystal meth is probably classified as amphetamine.
> 13. 4-MTA (amphetamine derivative) ‘unknown’ / NA
Hmm. I wonder how come that gets its own special classification.
But... I should probably follow your link before opening my yap ;-)
Posted by Declan on August 1, 2006, at 11:57:29
In reply to ranking ‘most-dangerous’ drugs, posted by pseudoname on August 1, 2006, at 8:25:36
I see Khat's in there.
That's the thing with immigrants.
Back in the days when Yemen was Aden this wouldn't have happened.
Luckily the WHO is on to that and trying to ban it there.
History has solved the problem of how to live.
We have curbing and lawns.
Posted by Declan on August 1, 2006, at 17:57:56
In reply to Re: ranking ‘most-dangerous’ drugs » pseudoname, posted by Declan on August 1, 2006, at 11:57:29
I can't pay attention to anything else when I'm paying so much to myself.
I need to find places to put my scorn in the interests of mood management.
Posted by cheesesteak on August 3, 2006, at 15:52:03
In reply to ranking ‘most-dangerous’ drugs, posted by pseudoname on August 1, 2006, at 8:25:36
According to Office for National Statistics, General Register Office for Scotland, Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency:
There were 8,380 alcohol-related deaths in the UK. The number of users was not stated but surely is high (no pun intended).
Posted by Impermanence on August 11, 2006, at 1:31:28
In reply to ranking ‘most-dangerous’ drugs, posted by pseudoname on August 1, 2006, at 8:25:36
This chart is BULL, written by people who have no understanding whatsoever of illegal or pharmaceutical drugs. As always, some idiot in the media looking for a quick story, absolute nonsense.
Posted by JahL on October 10, 2006, at 12:00:26
In reply to ranking ‘most-dangerous’ drugs, posted by pseudoname on August 1, 2006, at 8:25:36
> I don't know how they manage to find buprenorphine, a safe, medically-prescribed medication with an unknown number of supposedly recreational users and presumably no deaths, “more dangerous” than unquestionably brain-damaging and lethal SOLVENTS.
I agree. I took Bupe for a short while. Excellent AD properties which unfortunately were pretty transient. No addiction issues. I think it has much to do with the fact Bupe is seldom used alone, but is mixed with Heroin, with sometimes serious consequences.
> Also, is there no crystal meth in the UK?Surprisingly, not really. It's shown up in the London gay scene apparently, but is yet to really filter outwards. Speedball (crack + heroin for those that don't know) use is becoming a massive problem here in the UK however. Dealers are offering 'special' deals to users that buy the two drugs together. Industrious little f*ckers...
A recent authoritative report estimated the average heroin habit to be worth around £100/week, compared with a massive £300/week for speedball users. Obviously the implications for UK crime are vast.
J.
Posted by pseudoname on October 10, 2006, at 12:42:21
In reply to Re: ranking ‘most-dangerous’ drugs » pseudoname, posted by JahL on October 10, 2006, at 12:00:26
Thanks, Jah.
I had really wondered about the crystal meth thing. I saw a TV show that documented how it spread across the U.S. It still hadn't hit some U.S. cities a few years ago.
> I think it has much to do with the fact Bupe is seldom used alone, but is mixed with Heroin, with sometimes serious consequences.
Ah. Makes sense. Every week I read news reports of major bupe rings & bupe busts in the former USSR area, India, Thailand, etc. It mystifies me. Let them have all the bupe they want from the clinic, I say. (I've taken bupe for depression for almost a year. It seems to be less effective lately, alas.)
Posted by AuntieMel on October 10, 2006, at 18:03:43
In reply to interesting » JahL, posted by pseudoname on October 10, 2006, at 12:42:21
Bummer it's not helping as much.
And BTW I am going to send you that picture. I just haven't downloaded my camera yet.
Posted by pseudoname on October 10, 2006, at 18:50:23
In reply to Re: interesting » pseudoname, posted by AuntieMel on October 10, 2006, at 18:03:43
I wondered where you were. I took off from Babble for a few months, and when I came back, I didn't see you. I'm glad you popped into this thread!
Don't worry about the pics (tho' I'll be happy to see them). I hope you're doing okay?
Big hugs to you.
Posted by AuntieMel on October 11, 2006, at 17:18:56
In reply to Mel!! » AuntieMel, posted by pseudoname on October 10, 2006, at 18:50:23
I've had a few rough spots lately.
And I'm having a heck of a time posting from work. I used to use netscape, but it won't let me do replies anymore, and if I use mozilla I can't get the dang music to turn off. I don't even have speakers hooked up, but it blasts loud enough that my new office mate can hear it.
And I don't know how to tell linux to turn off the volume.
But I'm really glad to see you here. I saw you were gone, but I didn't know why..and I was worried.
Posted by pseudoname on October 11, 2006, at 21:27:58
In reply to Re: Mel!! » pseudoname, posted by AuntieMel on October 11, 2006, at 17:18:56
> I've had a few rough spots lately.
I'm sorry to hear it. I wish I were closer I'd pop over and you could tell me all about them. Wouldn't that be great?
I laughed out loud (sorry) reading your computer problems. My free trial of MicroSoft goodies ends in a few weeks and before that I have to partition my hard drive, install Linux, boot Linux, and use Firefox and friends. Yike! If I mess it up, I'll never be able to tell you about it.
I just took a needed Babble break. My depression is better in some ways and not in others. I'm easing myself into Abilify to help me stop constantly thinking that everybody hates my guts. We'll see! Thanks for caring and letting me know.
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 28, 2006, at 1:46:31
In reply to Re: Mel!! » pseudoname, posted by AuntieMel on October 11, 2006, at 17:18:56
> And I'm having a heck of a time posting from work. I used to use netscape, but it won't let me do replies anymore, and if I use mozilla I can't get the dang music to turn off.
What happens with Netscape? It takes Javascript and a cookie to turn off the music, do you have them turned on? And have you tried:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#cleanup
Bob
Posted by maryhelen on November 26, 2006, at 23:02:59
In reply to ranking ‘most-dangerous’ drugs, posted by pseudoname on August 1, 2006, at 8:25:36
Hi:
Interesting study .... thanks. My question is that I take percocett for my pain, and I am certainly addicted. Takes the depression away. Would they be classed as a barbituate or amphetamines. Not that it really matters, as I know that I am in a lot of trouble. Get the meds from 2 doctors and I am really pushing the envelope. I am actually quite terrified that the cops will be at my door and I will be arrested for double-doctoring. I have to stop but I cannot live in the depression. Given a choice as to whether I could get rid of the pain or the depression ..... hands down I would live with the severe pain and get rid of the depression.
My psych is going to put me on buprenorphine as well as an anti-depressant, at a very high dose. He mentioned Effexor which scares me after reading all of the negative threads. He even mentioned up to 600mg. The opiate doctor with whom he has be in counsel with (I also saw him) knows of some patients with refractory depression, responded to this high dosing.
maryhelen
Thanks
Posted by AuntieMel on December 26, 2006, at 11:07:23
In reply to Re: heck of a time posting, posted by Dr. Bob on October 28, 2006, at 1:46:31
I stuck a pair of dead headphones in the headphone jack.
Posted by JahL on February 4, 2007, at 17:13:29
In reply to interesting » JahL, posted by pseudoname on October 10, 2006, at 12:42:21
> I've taken bupe for depression for almost a year. It seems to be less effective lately, alas.
Hi pseudoname. Sorry to hear that.
Can I ask if you've had success with any other opioids?
Opes seem to hold the key to my illness. Oddly, there appears to exist an inverse relationship between potency (and therefore efficacy) and duration of relief.
So:
Bupe - 70% remission lasting 7 days.
Tramadol - 30% remission lasting 6 weeks.
Dihydrocodeine - 20% remission lasting 12 weeks (interestingly, this one is increasingly being touted by the UK medical establishment as a 'safer' Methadone substitute)
Methadone (very low dose) - 15% remission which, after 7 years, is yet to diminish.
Of course the Med. Est. likes to tell me that I'm just experiencing some sort of high. Heroin gets me high, but the drugs mentioned above actually improve my ability to function (cognitively, socially etc).
I'm fairly certain Hydrocodone/Oxycodone will (would) bring about something resembling complete remission. Unfortunately, here in the UK it's easier to obtain weapons-grade Polonium 210.
I'm not exaggerating.
:-(
See ya,
J.
Posted by JahL on February 4, 2007, at 19:22:33
In reply to Re: Bupe. » pseudoname, posted by JahL on February 4, 2007, at 17:13:29
I haven't been here for a few months.
I didn't realise.
I'm shocked and deeply saddened.
The nature of my illness means it's hard for me to warm to people, but I warmed to pseudoname almost immediately, even though we exchanged but a few posts. So friendly, charming and witty. I mean that from the bottom of my shrivelled heart.
I don't know what else to say but -
I'm sparking this next one for you Buddy.
Keep a cloud warm for me Bud. Be seeing you sooner rather than later.
Jamie.
[I'm so sorry if this has re-awoken feelings in folks close to him. I really had no idea]
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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