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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by coley on July 8, 2006, at 2:59:42
No matter what I do I always think about them, wish I had them, want to have them, wish i had more. Ugh! It is so ridiculous because I know how bad it can get. Real bad. I am so far away from real bad, however that point is always just around the corner/after a multiple day binge. How do you deal with this without letting snyone in your life know????
Posted by emnewberry1964 on July 28, 2006, at 14:23:55
In reply to Pain pills Pain pills Pain pills!, posted by coley on July 8, 2006, at 2:59:42
I have the same problem, only I'm at the real bad point. I have got to get some kind of help, and I have members of my family who just yell at me and expect it to be all better. Just stop while you can, and no matter how much you want them don't give in. Advice from someone who is in the real bad place.e
Posted by Kath on August 1, 2006, at 14:16:44
In reply to Re: Pain pills Pain pills Pain pills!, posted by emnewberry1964 on July 28, 2006, at 14:23:55
I'm someone who has not had this problem, but have you thought of attending an NA meeting? (Narcotics Anonymous)?
If there was one where you live, maybe your family wouldn't need to know where you were going when you went out.
Also, I wonder if there's an ONLINE NA group. I know there's a Naranon (I visited there recently due to concern about my son) online.
I'm so sorry you're both having this to deal with. I think I'm the type of person who could very easily get into trouble if I was on medicine that felt good!
My thoughts are with you both & I hope you both do well.
Kath
Posted by Sebastian on November 10, 2006, at 14:26:30
In reply to Pain pills Pain pills Pain pills!, posted by coley on July 8, 2006, at 2:59:42
You could talk to your doctor about it. Ask for Methadone.
Posted by Ibo Gaine on January 5, 2007, at 13:07:48
In reply to Re: Pain pills Pain pills Pain pills!, posted by Sebastian on November 10, 2006, at 14:26:30
Sebastian. This was seriously bad advice my friend, seeing as Methadone is 100 times more addictive than Morphine.
The best advice you could have given was to suggest, tell him to see his GP and get Buprenorphine.
Or take it into your own hands and leave all the institutions and doctors out of the equation and grab the bull by the horns yourself and get help from a shaman.
Love and Light. Ibo'
Posted by Kath on January 5, 2007, at 16:46:28
In reply to Re: Pain pills Pain pills Pain pills!, posted by Ibo Gaine on January 5, 2007, at 13:07:48
What's busprenorphine? How does it work? Does it work only for helping to not do certain drugs?
I'm just wondering because right now my 22 yr old son is in a psych ward in Vancouver due to a (probably drug-induced) psychosis. Voices telling him to do something bad or people he loves will be hurt. He had plans to kill himself on Christmas Eve.
I don't know what's going to happen when he gets out. He had a cocaine "slip" - had done a 'geographical cure' moving from Ontario to British Columbia (Canada) in July. Had one slip around September & at least 1 in December, but maybe more???
Anyway, I'm wondering about that med you mentioned.
thx
Kath
Posted by bulletproofair on January 5, 2007, at 23:07:08
In reply to Re: Pain pills ***** trigger****** » Ibo Gaine, posted by Kath on January 5, 2007, at 16:46:28
if you have a serious opiate addiction (pain medication, heroin, opium, poppy tea, and others...)
you need to research and look into getting some treatment. I currently attend a methadone clinic, and the rules and regulations are tough and tight, but having my life back, my emotions, and my health back are all priceless to me.if you just have a habit of hydrocodone or a rather weak pain medication, you should probably attend an NA group, because methadone treats you physically, but you will never cure your psychological problems without following up with corresponding counseling.
But as I was saying, if you are addicted, or are on the verge of becoming addicted to a rather "weak" on the totem pole of pain medications, then kick the habit cold turkey, get support from a group, take plenty of vitamins and herbal supplements, exercise to get the toxins out of your system quicker, drink a ton of water, and finally, cut off all connections to your dealers or however it may be that you have access to pain meds.
Hope my input helps. Methadone has LITERALLY saved my life. I have od'd once, been clinically dead, ruined relationships with my family, and now I'm a full time college student graduating this semester with an associates in science, and going on to get my bachelors as an electrical technician. I certainly would have od'd again if it was not for methadone.
Your habit will never ease up if you do nothing about it, it will only get worse and worse, as your tolerance rises and as you grow further away from the ones you love the most. Seriously.
Posted by ClearSkies on January 7, 2007, at 8:29:46
In reply to Re: Pain pills ***** trigger******, posted by bulletproofair on January 5, 2007, at 23:07:08
It's always great to see a contributor to this board.
I'm ClearSkies
Posted by Kath on January 7, 2007, at 21:14:39
In reply to Re: Pain pills ***** trigger******, posted by bulletproofair on January 5, 2007, at 23:07:08
thx for your really inspiring & informative post.
It's actually my son who's in trouble & today he told me that the drugs he did that triggered a psychosis that ended up with him in hospital (where he is now) were cocaine & crystal meth.
He's now talking about never doing even weed again so THAT is a major step, however, he's got a long way to go. hopefully the meds will get the voices gone & help his paranoia, then he'll need long-term rehab in order NOT to use again. I am hoping these recent horrible events will be enough of a motivation to help him along & actually onto a REAL road of recovery.
All I can do is pray.
thx, Kath
Posted by 2dawgz on March 30, 2007, at 7:21:46
In reply to Re: Pain pills ***** trigger****** » Ibo Gaine, posted by Kath on January 5, 2007, at 16:46:28
> What's busprenorphine? How does it work? Does it work only for helping to not do certain drugs?
>
> I'm just wondering because right now my 22 yr old son is in a psych ward in Vancouver due to a (probably drug-induced) psychosis. Voices telling him to do something bad or people he loves will be hurt. He had plans to kill himself on Christmas Eve.
>
> I don't know what's going to happen when he gets out. He had a cocaine "slip" - had done a 'geographical cure' moving from Ontario to British Columbia (Canada) in July. Had one slip around September & at least 1 in December, but maybe more???
>
> Anyway, I'm wondering about that med you mentioned.
>
> thx
> KathI used to be out of hand too like that as i have duel diagnosis and on methadone btw i disagree its 100x more addictive that's not the issue the issue is it works and its stable and controlled, since being on methadone my phych and substance issues have resolved best of luck
Posted by Kath on April 2, 2007, at 11:52:51
In reply to Re: Pain pills ***** trigger******, posted by 2dawgz on March 30, 2007, at 7:21:46
Thanks for your input & support!
I'm so glad that you've turned things around for yourself.
Congratulations, sincerely, Kath
PS - my son has been back in Ontario since the end of January. His psychosis symptoms are under control now with Risperidone & Seroquel.
He's in a program through Canadian Mental Health Association "HOPE" - Helping Overcome Psychosis Early.
His HUGE issue to deal with right now is that his 3-year serious girlfriend got using meth in BC. Came back with him, but in less than a month went back to "see friends (including, it turns out, a guy who she was attracted to & doing meth with) & bring back the rest of their things". Well, she is still there. She & the people who were living in the apartment where she & my son lived, were evicted & there was drug-cooking stuff around/graffiti, etc - when she phoned my son as they were being kicked out, the eviction official spoke with my son on the phone - said "if it was my girlfriend, I'd get her on the first plane out of Vancouver". Pretty hard for my son to hear, when he actually HAD booked a ticket for her & she didn't come back. My son is devastated about it.
He is really so obsessed with her that he seems to be barely getting from day to day. He's drinking to deal with it.Pretty stressful watching someone in so much pain & being scared about what's going to happen.
Kath
> > What's busprenorphine? How does it work? Does it work only for helping to not do certain drugs?
> >
> > I'm just wondering because right now my 22 yr old son is in a psych ward in Vancouver due to a (probably drug-induced) psychosis. Voices telling him to do something bad or people he loves will be hurt. He had plans to kill himself on Christmas Eve.
> >
> > I don't know what's going to happen when he gets out. He had a cocaine "slip" - had done a 'geographical cure' moving from Ontario to British Columbia (Canada) in July. Had one slip around September & at least 1 in December, but maybe more???
> >
> > Anyway, I'm wondering about that med you mentioned.
> >
> > thx
> > Kath
>
> I used to be out of hand too like that as i have duel diagnosis and on methadone btw i disagree its 100x more addictive that's not the issue the issue is it works and its stable and controlled, since being on methadone my phych and substance issues have resolved best of luck
Posted by crenshaw387 on June 26, 2007, at 1:54:29
In reply to Pain pills Pain pills Pain pills!, posted by coley on July 8, 2006, at 2:59:42
i may be in denial... i may just be in control.... i suppose time will tell... i love to take opiate pain meds recreationally.... dilaudid and fentanyl are great most other stuff is too weak.... but i dont take it all the time.... and when i dont have any its not a problem...some people would say i have a problem.... some say i dont....
sorry not a lot of help but just my input and point of view.... nothing negative has come from it....
Posted by Deus_Abscondis on September 8, 2007, at 9:00:59
In reply to Pain pills Pain pills Pain pills!, posted by coley on July 8, 2006, at 2:59:42
Hi people,
Without knowing how and why you started using the substances it is difficult to know what to say. Are they being used to eleviate depression, anxiety or to get high? Treatment options for opioid use are better understood than crack and ice.
It is interesting to hear 'that if psych meds make you feel good as opioids do then they would be problematic too'. The main difference is that, in general, psych meds don't give an increasing feel good response as the dose is escalated or they have limited therapeutic ranges and tolerance effects are not as simple. Indeed many of the anti-depressants I've tried give no mood brightening effect whatsoever and seem to act as emotional anesthetics or clamps - limiting both lows and highs and may achieve the results from indirect effects such as improving appetite, sleep, resistance to cortisol and possibly memory.
Hypnotism and CBT are good for some to help identify and deal with cravings and cues. There is good evidence that physical exercise - the harder you can go the better - is useful in a wide range of mental health problems as is enriching one's lifestyle but may require a lot of support - e.g., personal coaches
The euphoria associated with stimulants (injectable or smokable) are very powerful and set the reward centres to a high level such that ordinary life experiences seem dull by comparison - resetting means finding joy in the ordinary and the subtleties of everday life experiences - this requires ongoing retraining, goal setting and self rewarding that requires sustained effort and sustained support. Meditation (including guided meditation is a useful adjunct).
There is growing evidence that some people have deficiencies in their reward 'circuits' and are effectively unable, without the use of supportive medication, of feeling as 'good' as 'normal' people. This presents a challenge to medicine, therapists and policy makers as what may be an abusable recreational drug for some normalises these people. For example I can take 15mg of dexamphetamine and sleep soundly for 8 hours waking refreshed (I don't do this as a normal regime - I use a smaller dose - interestingly caffeine interferes more with my sleep than dex).
Of course therapeutic doses are usually a lot smaller than recreational doses if the user gives into dose escalation - i.e., they aren't managed.
Unfortunately gene therapy is a long way off.I was shocked to find out that a very intelligent and functional work acquaintance of mine who is an expert in their field used heroin daily and had done so for over the ten years I knew them without ill health effects and with no-one being wise to the fact. This is the exception rather than the rule but it illustrates my point. Nor should it be taken as an advocacy that anyone should try.
My personal belief is that very slow taper rates off a drug together with a supportive, systematic, comprehensive, holistic program (group therapy is one component) that may include transitional replacement medication (e.g., buprenorphine for opioids) has a better chance of success than cold turkey approaches. Stimulant withdrawal is trickier but initial replacement with pharmaceutical grade medications (e.g., Adderall, noradrenaline re-uptake inhibitors, dopamine agoinists/re-uptake inhibitors) is far preferable than street drugs as it removes the behavioral cues and re-inforcers of the addiction, doses can be accurately measured and harm minimised. Dosing could be sustained - vis a vis ADHD or morning dose.The notion of dependency in the light of a deficient underlying mechanism stigmatises medicine use. No one would question a diabetics use of insulin.
D
Posted by Ibo Gaine on September 8, 2007, at 12:57:04
In reply to Re: Pain pills Pain pills Pain pills!, posted by Deus_Abscondis on September 8, 2007, at 9:00:59
Hello D,
You make some good points there bro' about recovery, but the problem is it takes so long.
A heroin addict still feels swayed towards the emotional stuff of using even ten years after stopping.
He feels that emotional crawl within his gut.
There is an answer to this retardent withdawal though.
Ibogaine hcl.
Ibogaine resets all the switches so to speek and eliminates craving for the substance. Because the psychological impact of taking Ibogaine is so extreem, nothing in normal day life or subsequent dug use will compare.
The initiate grows up very quickly realising it is futile to continue with self destruction.
I myself took Iboga and smashed 23 years of pain and suffering through heroin and methadone meth crack.
Nothinhg compares to of what I know now and can see.
I do not use an do not crave.
I carry no more psychological baggage.
Ibogaine whitewalls body memory.Bless and be blessed.
Motumba'For further info on Ibogaine contact me.
I am a healer in the UK working with Ibogaine for to help with interupting the addiction syndrome and aiding in healing of psychological trauma.
Be well one and all.
Hi people,
>
> Without knowing how and why you started using the substances it is difficult to know what to say. Are they being used to eleviate depression, anxiety or to get high? Treatment options for opioid use are better understood than crack and ice.
>
> It is interesting to hear 'that if psych meds make you feel good as opioids do then they would be problematic too'. The main difference is that, in general, psych meds don't give an increasing feel good response as the dose is escalated or they have limited therapeutic ranges and tolerance effects are not as simple. Indeed many of the anti-depressants I've tried give no mood brightening effect whatsoever and seem to act as emotional anesthetics or clamps - limiting both lows and highs and may achieve the results from indirect effects such as improving appetite, sleep, resistance to cortisol and possibly memory.
>
> Hypnotism and CBT are good for some to help identify and deal with cravings and cues. There is good evidence that physical exercise - the harder you can go the better - is useful in a wide range of mental health problems as is enriching one's lifestyle but may require a lot of support - e.g., personal coaches
>
> The euphoria associated with stimulants (injectable or smokable) are very powerful and set the reward centres to a high level such that ordinary life experiences seem dull by comparison - resetting means finding joy in the ordinary and the subtleties of everday life experiences - this requires ongoing retraining, goal setting and self rewarding that requires sustained effort and sustained support. Meditation (including guided meditation is a useful adjunct).
>
> There is growing evidence that some people have deficiencies in their reward 'circuits' and are effectively unable, without the use of supportive medication, of feeling as 'good' as 'normal' people. This presents a challenge to medicine, therapists and policy makers as what may be an abusable recreational drug for some normalises these people. For example I can take 15mg of dexamphetamine and sleep soundly for 8 hours waking refreshed (I don't do this as a normal regime - I use a smaller dose - interestingly caffeine interferes more with my sleep than dex).
> Of course therapeutic doses are usually a lot smaller than recreational doses if the user gives into dose escalation - i.e., they aren't managed.
> Unfortunately gene therapy is a long way off.
>
> I was shocked to find out that a very intelligent and functional work acquaintance of mine who is an expert in their field used heroin daily and had done so for over the ten years I knew them without ill health effects and with no-one being wise to the fact. This is the exception rather than the rule but it illustrates my point. Nor should it be taken as an advocacy that anyone should try.
>
>
> My personal belief is that very slow taper rates off a drug together with a supportive, systematic, comprehensive, holistic program (group therapy is one component) that may include transitional replacement medication (e.g., buprenorphine for opioids) has a better chance of success than cold turkey approaches. Stimulant withdrawal is trickier but initial replacement with pharmaceutical grade medications (e.g., Adderall, noradrenaline re-uptake inhibitors, dopamine agoinists/re-uptake inhibitors) is far preferable than street drugs as it removes the behavioral cues and re-inforcers of the addiction, doses can be accurately measured and harm minimised. Dosing could be sustained - vis a vis ADHD or morning dose.
>
> The notion of dependency in the light of a deficient underlying mechanism stigmatises medicine use. No one would question a diabetics use of insulin.
>
> D
Posted by Mathia on September 17, 2007, at 18:56:27
In reply to Re: Pain pills Pain pills Pain pills!, posted by Ibo Gaine on September 8, 2007, at 12:57:04
Great posts guys. Just happened to be looking on this site today and thought Id weigh in. Im from the us and I am so sick of all the antidepressants out there that just dont work for most people. Seems like its all about money at this point. I have thought for along time that my brain is opioid deficient, because anytime I would get any kind of opiates (pain pills) I would always feel great for once in my life. I think the psycho world is definitely missing something by not looking at this possiblity. They are making so much money by handing out scrips for prozak, wellbutrin, etc.
You see I dont have to take more and more and more pills, I can sustain 1- 3 per day and it just makes me happy. Its a shame that there isnt more help for people like me because I think thats how alot of addicts get started on street opiates (heroin) because its just easy to get. Now, they are giving out subutrex over here to help with heroin and opiate addicts. I just think if they would help people WITH opiates before they result to getting them off the street and eventually going into heroin cause its easy to get. Maybe they would never be there. Goodluck, and I hope the ibogaine study goes well, I guess what I would be afraid of is once I erased all the addiction symptoms of my past, I would be at square zero again, with the same feelings of depression and no cure.
Posted by Ibo Gaine on September 18, 2007, at 10:08:18
In reply to Re: Pain pills Pain pills Pain pills!, posted by Mathia on September 17, 2007, at 18:56:27
With Ibogaine bro' you transcend all of that depression because Ibo' helps to rewire the brain frequencies back to as you where as a young child.
Before it all got messed up with substances.
All want and need of substance abuse and the need to take further after Ibo' are resolved.
It is not a complete cure of course you have to do a lot of work.
But I can tell you the natural energies that flow are awesome and I desire not to mess any of this most beautiful existence with the blindness of substances.
Be well'
Be blessed'
Motumba'
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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