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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 35. Go back in thread:
Posted by Quintal on March 8, 2007, at 8:51:30
In reply to Re: Nicotine as a therapeutic medication, posted by linkadge on March 4, 2007, at 9:05:36
Yes, I've read it's a vasoconstrictor and it raises blood pressure - so it's unsuitable for people with heart disease, but I'm not sure nicotine alone causes heart disease or damages it in any way. From what I gathered it is more a combination of the more harmful chemicals in tobacco smoke that thicken blood, raise lipid levels etc, in tandem with nicotine's vasoconstricting effects that makes tobacco smoking so harmful to the heart. I'll have to check and see.
Q
Posted by Crazy Horse on March 8, 2007, at 8:51:31
In reply to Nicotine as a therapeutic medication » yxibow, posted by Quintal on March 3, 2007, at 18:32:40
> __________________________________________________
>
> The apparent positive effects of tobacco smoke on neurodegenerative and psychiatric diseases have long intrigued researchers, but it has been uncertain if these effects were due to nicotine or to some other chemical ingredient in tobacco. However, recent experimental work in animals has identified a family of neuronal receptors that are targeted by nicotine—the nAChR’s. These receptors are believed to be involved in a number of key brain functions, including cognition, learning, memory, arousal, cerebral blood flow, and metabolism. Interestingly, their most important function is to regulate the release of neurotransmitters.
>
> With the discovery that the number of nAChR receptors is depleted in the brains of persons with Alzheimer’s disease and Parkinson’s disease, the use of nicotine as a therapeutic medication is beginning to be explored. One theory is that individuals with neurodegenerative and psychiatric diseases (who have been found to smoke more than those in the general population) are using nicotine as a way of self-medicating. However, as smoking causes so many health problems, alternative methods of delivering nicotine (patches, nasal sprays, inhalers, lozenges, gum) are now being investigated for their potential therapeutic values.
> http://www.remedyfind.com/treatments/0/2157/
>
> __________________________________________________
>
> "It really makes a difference"......
>
> I quite smoking about 8 years ago but the urge was always with me. Then about a year ago, when I was having trouble with my meds I really wanted to smoke. BUT, knowing how bad it is for you, I decided to buy the gum. I am still chewing and I love the way it makes me feel. My husband doesn't understand, and frankly neither did I until I read this! I can think clearer and I just feel better over all. I haven't told my dr that I use it ... maybe I should. The only bad thing is that it is so expensive. I buy the off brand at Walmart and I still spend 50 dollars ever 2-3 weeks.
> http://www.remedyfind.com/ratinglong.aspx?RatingID=48464
> __________________________________________________
>
> QHey, it's only money...better then killing yourself with the smokes.
-Monte
Posted by linkadge on March 8, 2007, at 8:51:31
In reply to Re: Nicotine as a therapeutic medication » linkadge, posted by Quintal on March 4, 2007, at 10:28:38
I did a lot of reading to see since I was interested in the theraputic application of nicotine.
The article I read was assesing trying to determine whether nicotine would be safe for use in ADHD.
Apparently it does independantly do strange things to the heart. Angiogenesis or something.
I'll look for the article.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on March 8, 2007, at 8:51:31
In reply to Re: Nicotine as a therapeutic medication, posted by linkadge on March 4, 2007, at 14:38:22
Well don't forget it's a cancer causing agent too . If you smoke it's lung especially, chew it it's esophagus, mouth, tongue. Love Phillipa
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 8, 2007, at 8:51:31
In reply to Re: Nicotine as a therapeutic medication, posted by Phillipa on March 4, 2007, at 18:32:37
Well I must have the most 'unaddictive' personality around - I feel quite boring! I can go on and off smoking, well I'm talking about one cigarette a day here so its hardly a hardened habit. Perhaps one cig a day really isn't enough to get addicted. I only smoke a couple of puffs at that too. I'm not entirely sure why I bother to be honest. Yeah I guess it does somehow 'lift' me a touch. Perhaps thats why.
Hmm, I've been thinking about the gum. There was a lady I knew at work who was also addicted to the gum - she was essentially, a chain chewer!! Haha. I think that it must be only marginally better than smoking? Interestingly in these parts theres this weird form of chewing tabacco where you don't chew it you just keep it between gum and cheek. Yuck.
Meri
Posted by rjlockhart on March 8, 2007, at 8:51:31
In reply to Re: Nicotine as a therapeutic medication, posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 5, 2007, at 11:15:21
Well i once heard that ciggarettes can increase MAO-A AND B in the head. Which mean an antidepessant effect if you smoke moderatly, i smoke.,.........moderaly :(
One thing.
1. Im stressed. Caused by an immidate situation happening, it sparks that craving immidatly in my head. Like arguements, being stressed, ugh many other things.
2. Something is on my mind. Think about it.
3. It gives you a kick sometimes, when i went off dexedrine my smoking went through the WALL.
So thats where it stands.
Im still young and can quit.
rj
Posted by Quintal on March 8, 2007, at 8:51:31
In reply to Re: Nicotine as a therapeutic medication, posted by linkadge on March 4, 2007, at 14:38:22
>Apparently it does independantly do strange things to the heart. Angiogenesis or something.
Does that mean angina-causing or causing growth of heart muscle? Nicotine is well known for provoking angina atacks because of its vasoconstiriction effects, so it's not suitable for those with heart disease. They would have had to follow the people taking pharmaceutical grade nicotine to treat ADHD for some years - decades most likely in order to reach a fair conclusion that it was pure nicotine alone that was causing the problem, and that seems unlikely. Have you had any success in finding the article?
Q
Posted by Quintal on March 8, 2007, at 8:51:31
In reply to Re: Nicotine as a therapeutic medication, posted by Phillipa on March 4, 2007, at 18:32:37
>Well don't forget it's a cancer causing agent too . If you smoke it's lung especially, chew it it's esophagus, mouth, tongue. Love Phillipa
There's no evidence that nicotine is carcinogenic - it's the other chemicals in tobacco that cause cancer. Nicotine may play a role by supressing the automatic death of cancer cells though in the presence of carcinogens.
Q
Posted by laima on March 8, 2007, at 8:51:31
In reply to Re: Nicotine as a therapeutic medication » Phillipa, posted by Quintal on March 6, 2007, at 4:10:17
Well, here's a little good news- currently posted in the New York Times online Health section.March 6, 2007
Vital Signs
Exercise: Workouts May Offset One Effect of SmokingSmokers who cannot give up the habit can still help themselves through exercise.
Those who exercise, a new study finds, are less likely to develop a serious lung ailment common to smokers, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. The article appears in the March issue of The American Journal of Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine.
For the study, Dr. Judith Garcia-Aymerich of the Municipal Institute of Medical Research in Barcelona, Spain, and her colleagues followed the health of almost 6,800 people, smokers and nonsmokers, over 11 years. Of these, 928 developed chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, which killed more than 100,000 Americans in 2003, the researchers said.
The study found that among the smokers, the disease occurred about 20 percent less in those who reported moderate or high levels of exercise.
“It is plausible that regular physical activity could counteract the smoking effects through an anti-inflammatory and antioxidant mechanism,” the study said.
Posted by linkadge on March 8, 2007, at 8:51:31
In reply to Re: Nicotine as a therapeutic medication » Phillipa, posted by Quintal on March 6, 2007, at 4:10:17
I don't know about carcinogenic, as in causing cancer, but it appears to speed the development of tumors and arterial plaques.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/07/010730075130.htm
Linkadge
Posted by FredPotter on March 8, 2007, at 8:51:32
In reply to Re: Nicotine as a therapeutic medication, posted by linkadge on March 6, 2007, at 12:35:36
Anybody noticed how smokers are more fun? If fun's good for you perhaps they're on to a winner although it's in their nature anyway to have a fun attitude to life probably.
Me - I smoke Condor. A rich dark strong smoke (in a pipe). Being strong I'm less likely to directly inhale it. I have about 2 a day and none at all when my kids come to stay. Einstein said a pipe helped him think
Fred
Posted by Phillipa on March 8, 2007, at 8:51:32
In reply to Re: Nicotine as a therapeutic medication » Phillipa, posted by Quintal on March 6, 2007, at 4:10:17
Q chewing tobacco too? As the workers used to chew tobacco leaves and a higher incidence of mouth and tongue and throat cancer. Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on March 8, 2007, at 8:51:32
In reply to Re: Nicotine as a therapeutic medication » Quintal, posted by Phillipa on March 6, 2007, at 19:31:04
Yes, because the cancer-causing chemicals are in the tobacco leaves they put in their mouths. They are released into the saliva when chewed - hence increased incidence of cancers of the throat, mouth and tongue.
Q
Posted by Phillipa on March 8, 2007, at 8:51:32
In reply to Re: Nicotine as a therapeutic medication » Phillipa, posted by Quintal on March 6, 2007, at 21:41:38
Q that's what I thought. Love Phillipa
Posted by yxibow on March 8, 2007, at 8:51:32
In reply to Re: Nicotine as a therapeutic medication, posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 5, 2007, at 11:15:21
> Well I must have the most 'unaddictive' personality around - I feel quite boring! I can go on and off smoking, well I'm talking about one cigarette a day here so its hardly a hardened habit. Perhaps one cig a day really isn't enough to get addicted. I only smoke a couple of puffs at that too. I'm not entirely sure why I bother to be honest. Yeah I guess it does somehow 'lift' me a touch. Perhaps thats why.
>
> Hmm, I've been thinking about the gum. There was a lady I knew at work who was also addicted to the gum - she was essentially, a chain chewer!! Haha. I think that it must be only marginally better than smoking? Interestingly in these parts theres this weird form of chewing tabacco where you don't chew it you just keep it between gum and cheek. Yuck.
Yeah -- the skoals crap or whatever, instead of lung cancer, you can get an even more aggresive form of mouth cancer.
Posted by yxibow on March 8, 2007, at 8:51:32
In reply to smokers are more fun, posted by FredPotter on March 6, 2007, at 16:43:01
> Anybody noticed how smokers are more fun? If fun's good for you perhaps they're on to a winner although it's in their nature anyway to have a fun attitude to life probably.
>
> Me - I smoke Condor. A rich dark strong smoke (in a pipe). Being strong I'm less likely to directly inhale it. I have about 2 a day and none at all when my kids come to stay. Einstein said a pipe helped him think
> Fred
Well that's at least a low amount of tobacco, its still sadly to say increasing your chance of cancer.Smokers are fun? This sounds like the anti-anti phillips-morris settlement commercials.
You have to account for people with asthma and allergies. One of my grandfathers never smoked around his wife or the house because of that.
I'm mildly allergic in the sense that I get uncomfortable headaches from second hand smoke. Not to mention that you have to clean everything after entering a pub/bar/restauraunt in a state or city that hasn't outlawed or restricted it yet. There's the other side to the coin, the 80% of people who do not smoke in this country. Not trying to start a tobacco war, but I could never have a partner as a smoker, certainly not as a frequent smoker. Tried that. Kissing was awful, it was like breathing it... anyhow.... as they say , TMI.
-- tidings.
Posted by yxibow on March 10, 2007, at 1:39:12
In reply to Re: thanks....nicotine for me.., posted by rjlockhart on March 5, 2007, at 22:05:57
> Well i once heard that ciggarettes can increase MAO-A AND B in the head. Which mean an antidepessant effect if you smoke moderatly, i smoke.,.........moderaly :(
>
> One thing.
>
> 1. Im stressed. Caused by an immidate situation happening, it sparks that craving immidatly in my head. Like arguements, being stressed, ugh many other things.
>
> 2. Something is on my mind. Think about it.
>
> 3. It gives you a kick sometimes, when i went off dexedrine my smoking went through the WALL.
>
> So thats where it stands.
>
> Im still young and can quit.
It accumulates even when you're still young, not to create too much of an argument, but if you're in your 20s, its likely you started as a teenager. It is incredibly hard to quit nicotine addiction, harder than many other substances out there.But that is your perogative -- and those are all reasons plus more that people keep smoking. Anyway I'm not going to turn this into a antismoking commercial but the "I am young and can quit" statement is too often heard :/
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 12, 2007, at 14:39:37
In reply to Re: thanks....nicotine for me.. » rjlockhart, posted by yxibow on March 10, 2007, at 1:39:12
Hmmmm, someone who smokes a pipe doesn't sound like the sort of person who is young - to me anyway.
Anyway live and let live I say. I'm sure there are worse things out there than smoking tobacco. Sure its not the most healthy of habits, but then, neither are alot of other things. Chargrilled meat is, apparently, extremely carcinogenic, but people don't go on about that in the same way. Red meat in general isn't supposed to be good for you either actually.
Anyway. I think the Italians have a good lifestyle.
Posted by FredPotter on March 13, 2007, at 19:52:02
In reply to Re: thanks....nicotine for me.. » yxibow, posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 12, 2007, at 14:39:37
I forget the figures, but one of the leading causes of death in the world is cooking smoke. So a BBQ cremated meal of steak, burgers and sausages is bad for you. But do I think that's a good reason not to have one? Not at all. Good life-style is good for you
Posted by FredPotter on March 13, 2007, at 22:57:02
In reply to Re: thanks....nicotine for me.. » yxibow, posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 12, 2007, at 14:39:37
Actually . . . have you noticed how all pipe smokers are old? Must be good for you. On second thoughts perhaps they're all in their early twenties and just look old
Posted by fayeroe on March 14, 2007, at 20:26:45
In reply to smokers are more fun, posted by FredPotter on March 6, 2007, at 16:43:01
> Anybody noticed how smokers are more fun? If fun's good for you perhaps they're on to a winner although it's in their nature anyway to have a fun attitude to life probably.
>
> Me - I smoke Condor. A rich dark strong smoke (in a pipe). Being strong I'm less likely to directly inhale it. I have about 2 a day and none at all when my kids come to stay. Einstein said a pipe helped him think
> Fredhow interesting. gosh, i thought i've been having fun for years.......guess not. i'll buy a pipe tomorrow.
Posted by Mistermindmasta on March 15, 2007, at 0:25:02
In reply to Re: smokers are more fun » FredPotter, posted by fayeroe on March 14, 2007, at 20:26:45
I've tried smoking... in small quantities and in moderate quantities (3 cigs / day) with an experimental viewpoint.
Smoking definitely can lift mood. But it makes me lightheaded and kinda dizzy, even after Ive been smoking long enough to "get used to it". So Its quite difficult for me to get truly addicted because I dont like the dizziness and lightheadedness. Maybe I'm lucky in that respect. After 4 hits I feel wide awake but dizzy. Feeling dizzy just sucks! When I'm drunk i don't notice that as much so it's nicer.
I definitely dont think nicotine has any neuroprotective properties or antidepressant effects (only based on my personal experiences). Once the buzz is gone, I feel crappier than I did before.
The gum is another story. Pretty decent if you ask me. Again tho, doesnt seem to have lasting "antidepressant" effects like some studies have suggested, but it definitely has a pleasantly mild buzz. It doesnt make me dizzy either.
Unfortunately I also use caffeine to give me a buzz/increase focus, so when I use nicotine + caffeine in the morning, I get a pretty sweet buzz, but its totally gone after like 5 hours and near the end of the night I feel like I'm retarded. I feel really spaced out and can't make decisions and nothing is fun.
So I stick to caffeine. It's more physically motivating which is what I need. I dont need the buzz like I need the jumpstart that caffeine gives me.
Posted by Sebastian on April 2, 2007, at 15:56:48
In reply to Im down again., posted by rjlockhart on March 3, 2007, at 14:17:40
Wellbutrin sr. Thats what I take. It makes it more pleasant to smoke less, even for long periods of time like the last 4 years, I'm still smoking aprox 1/3 of a pack a day. Compared with the almost a pack a day I was up to just before that. Generic is just as effective. Its also an anti-depressant.
Posted by Sebastian on April 2, 2007, at 16:06:48
In reply to Nicotine as a therapeutic medication » yxibow, posted by Quintal on March 3, 2007, at 18:32:40
The problem is nicotine gum does not have enough nicotine in it, they give you low doses like 2 or 4 mg, when a actual ciggarette has 20 mg or more, depending on how you smoke it.
Also I think you can get cheeper nicotine gum on Ebay.
Posted by Sebastian on April 2, 2007, at 16:16:24
In reply to Re: Im down again. » Phillipa, posted by yxibow on March 3, 2007, at 22:02:31
I've never taken Chantix, but if it block the pleasure in the brain, couldn't that be a form of torture?
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