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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dragon Black on September 21, 2007, at 2:43:44
look, I don't mean any disrespect to anyone. I fully realize that many have internalized the idea that anyone who has a drinking problem needs AA/complete abstinence, and anything less will result in "rock bottom" and they have to find that out for themself. ultimately everyone has to figure these things out for themselves. So: I'm interested in hearing from people who have learned to control their drinking w/o having to quit or resort to AA. If you are an AA die-hard, I appreciate your comments also, but you are preaching to the wrong audience. I'm not there yet. In way of background, I had my drinking down to a really manageable level several years ago, to where I was really only drinking on the weekends, when I was on wellbutrin. long story short, lost my insurance, got priced out of meds, relapsed into depression, can't afford it now, etc. american dream, yada yada. my drinking hovers between manageable to problematic, never bad enough to really screw things up unfixable like, just enought to make me want to change. need to get a handle on it. really just need a substitute, really. used to use weed intermittently as a substitute, but not really feasible now, plus weed anymore is even more of a problem for me than alcohol is once i get started back onto it. wouldn't be if i could buy in small amounts, like dimes or something. can't. any advice appreciated (and sorry if any AA members are offended : ) don't mean to be abrasive, just very distrustful, plus other issues, like i'm an atheist and don't think a program that requires you to recognize a higher power could possibly work for me. plus not ready to quit drinking.)
Posted by ClearSkies on September 21, 2007, at 8:19:34
In reply to anyone learned to control their drinking w/o AA?, posted by Dragon Black on September 21, 2007, at 2:43:44
I can't say that I ever managed to control my drinking, despite many years of serious attempts to. And I tried weed, to, which makes me feel just dandy - but it also makes me feel like drinking! So I consider that experiment a failure.
AA just wasn't for me, but it wasn't because of the policy of abstinence. I just found that I needed a lot more positive reinforcement in my life than negative in order to maintain my sobriety for any length of time. For me, the ideal model turned out to be from the Women For Sobriety organization (try googling them), who use daily affirmations to uplift us and reinforce the positive aspects of abstaining from alcohol.
And I guess that the answer for me was that I learned to replace alcohol, not with another substance to recreate the feeling, but with healthy habits that keep me grounded and in touch with the natural beauty of the world. It sounds totally hokey, but a walk outside, appreciating the sights and sounds of the world around me, makes me profoundly grateful to be in possession of all my senses in order to be able to feel them all.
That's my story, anyway. (2 years' sober last month.)
ClearSkies
Posted by saturn on September 21, 2007, at 17:55:46
In reply to Re: anyone learned to control their drinking w/o A » Dragon Black, posted by ClearSkies on September 21, 2007, at 8:19:34
Posted by Dragon Black on September 21, 2007, at 20:48:47
In reply to Re: anyone learned to control their drinking w/o A » Dragon Black, posted by ClearSkies on September 21, 2007, at 8:19:34
> I can't say that I ever managed to control my drinking, despite many years of serious attempts to. And I tried weed, to, which makes me feel just dandy - but it also makes me feel like drinking! So I consider that experiment a failure.
>
> AA just wasn't for me, but it wasn't because of the policy of abstinence. I just found that I needed a lot more positive reinforcement in my life than negative in order to maintain my sobriety for any length of time. For me, the ideal model turned out to be from the Women For Sobriety organization (try googling them), who use daily affirmations to uplift us and reinforce the positive aspects of abstaining from alcohol.
>
> And I guess that the answer for me was that I learned to replace alcohol, not with another substance to recreate the feeling, but with healthy habits that keep me grounded and in touch with the natural beauty of the world. It sounds totally hokey, but a walk outside, appreciating the sights and sounds of the world around me, makes me profoundly grateful to be in possession of all my senses in order to be able to feel them all.
>
> That's my story, anyway. (2 years' sober last month.)
>
> ClearSkieshi, thanks for your response. congrats on 2 years sobriety! I envy your disposition, but frankly, can't begin to comprehend it. the idea of being thankful is foreign to me, i'm here b/c i have resigned myself to the fact that i can't put my family through my death, so i i'm not allowed to leave, which i would really like to do. c'est la vie (is irony implicated here?). anyhoo, maybe i'll end up at the point where i do have to quit, i realize that it's quite possible i'm just in an intricately woven tapestry of denial and that this is apparent to everyone but me, but i'm not so sure. for years i blamed all my problems on my drug use (mostly weed) and alcohol. somewhere along the way it became *painfully* clear that i had a mood disorder, depression. only recently, as in the last two weeks (thanks to this board, btw - thanks everyone! fuchsia in particular : ) ) have i figured out that i am actually bipolar (II, i think, though i've been rapid cycling like "crazy" recently due to med issues). so now i've gone back and basically been able to chart my cycling over time, for all the years that i didn't realize it, and i think that alcohol and weed were instrumental in getting me through it, basically taking the edge of the highs and the lows, making them much more manageable. clearly, both have horrendous side effect profiles, and since i abuse both they may not prove sustainable for me in the long run, but they have had a great deal of utility for me, and i think that while they certainly caused me some problems, they were not the original source of my problems, like i always thought. it was just my way of self-medicating. there have also been times when i've stayed sober and had my anxiety just shoot through the roof, to a paralyzing level, so given that alternative, i'll take alcohol. i don't know, maybe i am just deluding myself, but i think it remains quite possible that quitting drinking isn't the magic bullet i'm looking for. sorry for the long post...thanks again, everyone.
Posted by antigua3 on September 21, 2007, at 23:45:36
In reply to Re: anyone learned to control their drinking w/o A, posted by Dragon Black on September 21, 2007, at 20:48:47
Have you seen a psychopharmacologist? Perhaps they could prescribe you a combo of drugs to replace your use of alcohol for the rapid cycling, etc., that may make you feel better, rather than using alcohol to deal with the cycling. Think aobut giving it a chance, if you haven't. It worked well for me.
antigua
Posted by Dragon Black on September 22, 2007, at 3:27:54
In reply to Re: anyone learned to control their drinking w/o A » Dragon Black, posted by antigua3 on September 21, 2007, at 23:45:36
Hi, antigua - haven't seen a pdoc. don't have health insurance or the money to see a doc period. can't even pay my car note right now - not good for the 'ol anxiety, waiting for the repo man. i'm on my own. i live in the u.s., so f**k, 'em, right? i hate the medical system here so much that i'm almost glad to be forced to work outside it. that's neither here nor there. would love to know what has worked for you, specifically. thanks.
> Have you seen a psychopharmacologist? Perhaps they could prescribe you a combo of drugs to replace your use of alcohol for the rapid cycling, etc., that may make you feel better, rather than using alcohol to deal with the cycling. Think aobut giving it a chance, if you haven't. It worked well for me.
> antigua
Posted by ClearSkies on September 22, 2007, at 16:37:55
In reply to Re: anyone learned to control their drinking w/o A, posted by Dragon Black on September 21, 2007, at 20:48:47
I know that alcohol does a great job at blunting our moods, but it does a wicked job on our livers (and brains, and stomachs, and ultimately our lifestyles, with chronic use). If you have been able to identify that you are indeed experiencing rapid mood cycling, and are also not covered by insurance, then I believe that some of the pharmaceutical companies have programs to help with the cost of medications.
I'm pretty sure I've seen some threads about this here at babble if you do a search on it.
I did find that once I was sober for more than 6 months that my mental state was generally improved as well - though not at all to the point that I don't need medication. (I'm not some Pollyanna saying every day without a drink is a happy beautiful thing.) But it made life much less complicated not having to manage all the drama that I'd created surrounding the drinking career. (I hid it from my family and friends so it was a big job to manage to drink every day while everyone thought I didn't drink at all. Except that they knew I did. OK, it was a mess. But it was a lot easier once I actually DID stop drinking, to work on the residual depression and anxiety, without the drinking habit and its associated problems.)
And the alternative - to not live? - isn't really a viable alternative for me any more. I honestly couldn't say that while I was actively drinking.
ClearSkies
Posted by ClearSkies on September 22, 2007, at 17:00:25
In reply to Re: anyone learned to control their drinking w/o A » Dragon Black, posted by ClearSkies on September 22, 2007, at 16:37:55
> I know that alcohol does a great job at blunting our moods, but it does a wicked job on our livers (and brains, and stomachs, and ultimately our lifestyles, with chronic use). If you have been able to identify that you are indeed experiencing rapid mood cycling, and are also not covered by insurance, then I believe that some of the pharmaceutical companies have programs to help with the cost of medications.
>
> I'm pretty sure I've seen some threads about this here at babble if you do a search on it.Actually, here's a link to a recent post about getting help with Rx meds without insurance:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20070919/msgs/784098.html
Posted by antigua3 on September 23, 2007, at 11:41:24
In reply to Re: anyone learned to control their drinking w/o A » Dragon Black, posted by ClearSkies on September 22, 2007, at 16:37:55
I loved your use of "drinking career"--oh, how true, it took so much time covering it up...
antigua
Posted by Dragon Black on September 23, 2007, at 22:33:44
In reply to DragonBlack, posted by ClearSkies on September 22, 2007, at 17:00:25
Posted by Quintal on October 2, 2007, at 23:13:57
In reply to anyone learned to control their drinking w/o AA?, posted by Dragon Black on September 21, 2007, at 2:43:44
Some alcoholics can control their drinking with benzodiazepines. In many ways they produce a similar effect to alcohol, but have a much cleaner side effect profile. I find benzos highly addictive, but I never did take to alcohol for some reason, just because so noxious compared to benzos I think.
Q
Posted by Zyprexa on December 1, 2007, at 10:59:26
In reply to anyone learned to control their drinking w/o AA?, posted by Dragon Black on September 21, 2007, at 2:43:44
I was a moderate drinker, 3 drinks a day average. I mainly did it because I was board, sort of alone, and it was my thing. It was also a coping mechanizim for meds that didn't work so well. So yes, I quit for a month cold turky, and then went to 1-2 drinks every 2-3 days. Which I'm still doing. Part of the solution was moving out of apartment and back in with parents and going back on the zyprexa and off abilify and geodon. Which didn't help my condition. I started the moderate drinking everyday when I tried getting off zyprexa. The other thing the alcohol did was to help me sleep.
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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